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#71
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On 2/20/2020 10:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
When I was young, one might easily travel the country, always confident of finding a day or two of work everywhere and anywhere (As I did. Everywhere.) . Interesting. I did some of that too, when I was young. I also did it while not traveling, just to get spending money. But my success rate while on the road was pretty low. It seemed I'd have to spend many hours waiting inside a Manpower office to have a chance at getting anything at all. This is no longer true, to the greater loss of the nation's wealth and productivity, no more painfully felt than at the bottom of society, those who suffer most. I really am sympathetic to those people. Say what you will, many have very high barriers in front of them. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#72
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 21:38:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/20/2020 9:16 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 20:16:32 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 2/20/2020 6:55 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 05:30:10 -0800, sms wrote: On 2/20/2020 12:16 AM, John B. wrote: snip Wasn't California a state that instituted the "3 strikes and you're out" thing where habitual criminals were kept in jail? -- cheers, John B. Like many laws, it was a poorly thought out, feel-good law. It created tremendous prison over-crowding, keeping many people in prison that were no threat. One person received a life sentence for his third strike--stealing a piece of pizza from a group at a birthday party in a pizza place, even though he asked one of the kids for a slice and the kid nodded yes. The kid said that he was scared and prosecutors said that it was "robbery by intimidation." The 3 strikes law resulted in another poorly thought out law, Prop 47, that allowed habitual criminals to not go to prison in an effort to comply with federal mandates to reduce prison over-crowding. It has led to a wave of retail theft and car break-ins https://www.independent.org/news/news_detail.asp?newsID=1247. Go to a department store or a drug store these days and it's almost like back in the olden days where a shop employee has to get you the merchandise. And we're not just talking about liquor or smart phones, we're talking about Tide detergent, bicycle accessories, ibuprofen, sometimes even candy. It's locked up https://sacobserver.com/2018/01/shoplifting-is-to-blame-for-locked-up-items-not-walmart/. England, in the 1800's, and I'm sure other countries, have tried to solve the problems of habitual criminals. England, at least partially solved the problem, by shipping the miscreants off to Australia, but what can be done today? One might try branding a big "T" or "R" on the evildoer's cheek or forehead but that might start a new fashion trend like the ripped jeans and the four day growth of beard, Or perhaps the "Prison Farm" solution as was used in Mississippi, among other states. That could, if managed properly, turn out to be a profit making establishment. Or is working now deemed to be a cruel and unusual punishment? The precedent is a branded face with an "F" for "fugitus", which was effective because giving food or shelter to a branded fugitive was a capital crime. We're not ready for that here. Yet. While of course there are exceptions I do read that a rather large percentage of those imprisoned commit further felonies after being released, as many as 70% in some instances. It would seem that a certain percent of the population are criminally inclined and unfortunately this percentage appears to be increasing as in 1976 incarcerated amounted to some 232/100,000 in the U.S. while in 2018 it was 655/100,000, an increase of 280% in 42 years (unless I got my numbers wrong). Scary! -- cheers, John B. Many aspects of our culture have changed over that time, not the least being the demise of casual (cash) labor and draconian barriers to entry (minimum wage, reporting, ID cards, endless capricious liability resulting in 'background checks' and such) into labor markets. This is pernicious as regards young and unskilled since no 'first job' often means no job whatsoever. But it's fatal to the formerly incarcerated. When I was young, one might easily travel the country, always confident of finding a day or two of work everywhere and anywhere (As I did. Everywhere.) . This is no longer true, to the greater loss of the nation's wealth and productivity, no more painfully felt than at the bottom of society, those who suffer most. It is largely a factor of a richer economy I think. When we were first married, 50 years ago, getting a housemaid was easy. You told the housemaid next door that you wanted a maid and the next morning there would be three or four waiting at the gate. Today there aren't any Thai housemaids, they've all got a job in a factory and ride around on motorcycles. We have a woman that comes in and does the heavy work ( my wife is 75 ) and she has a pretty busy schedule - "Well, lets see, I could let you have Mondays and maybe Saturdays, as I'm busy the rest of the week". -- cheers, John B. |
#73
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 2:16:46 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/20/2020 6:55 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 05:30:10 -0800, sms wrote: On 2/20/2020 12:16 AM, John B. wrote: snip Wasn't California a state that instituted the "3 strikes and you're out" thing where habitual criminals were kept in jail? -- cheers, John B. Like many laws, it was a poorly thought out, feel-good law. It created tremendous prison over-crowding, keeping many people in prison that were no threat. One person received a life sentence for his third strike--stealing a piece of pizza from a group at a birthday party in a pizza place, even though he asked one of the kids for a slice and the kid nodded yes. The kid said that he was scared and prosecutors said that it was "robbery by intimidation." The 3 strikes law resulted in another poorly thought out law, Prop 47, that allowed habitual criminals to not go to prison in an effort to comply with federal mandates to reduce prison over-crowding. It has led to a wave of retail theft and car break-ins https://www.independent.org/news/news_detail.asp?newsID=1247. Go to a department store or a drug store these days and it's almost like back in the olden days where a shop employee has to get you the merchandise. And we're not just talking about liquor or smart phones, we're talking about Tide detergent, bicycle accessories, ibuprofen, sometimes even candy. It's locked up https://sacobserver.com/2018/01/shoplifting-is-to-blame-for-locked-up-items-not-walmart/. England, in the 1800's, and I'm sure other countries, have tried to solve the problems of habitual criminals. England, at least partially solved the problem, by shipping the miscreants off to Australia, but what can be done today? One might try branding a big "T" or "R" on the evildoer's cheek or forehead but that might start a new fashion trend like the ripped jeans and the four day growth of beard, Or perhaps the "Prison Farm" solution as was used in Mississippi, among other states. That could, if managed properly, turn out to be a profit making establishment. Or is working now deemed to be a cruel and unusual punishment? The precedent is a branded face with an "F" for "fugitus", which was effective because giving food or shelter to a branded fugitive was a capital crime. We're not ready for that here. Yet. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 As a consolation prize, it won't be long before Bloomie arranges for smokers and soda pop guzzlers and the obese and those unfortunate enough to be young while being black to be hunted through the streets for being a drag on his plans for a cleaner, better-organized, smarter, thinner America prior to selling it to China. Andre Jute Irony didn't die, it was overtaken by American elections |
#74
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On 2/20/2020 9:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/20/2020 10:38 PM, AMuzi wrote: When I was young, one might easily travel the country, always confident of finding a day or two of work everywhere and anywhere (As I did. Everywhere.) . Interesting. I did some of that too, when I was young. I also did it while not traveling, just to get spending money. But my success rate while on the road was pretty low. It seemed I'd have to spend many hours waiting inside a Manpower office to have a chance at getting anything at all. This is no longer true, to the greater loss of the nation's wealth and productivity, no more painfully felt than at the bottom of society, those who suffer most. I really am sympathetic to those people. Say what you will, many have very high barriers in front of them. And changes in work itself. It was once possible to show up at any truck terminal around midnight and to transfers (truck-to-truck, dock-to-truck) which was badly paid unskilled manual labor. Now, almost everything is palletized and moved (more efficiently) by machines. There are no mason's helpers (really crappy job and very hard work). Even dishwashing has a much lower labor content. In the larger sense these are improvements but, again, a closed door to the marginal human. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#75
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On 2/21/2020 8:54 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/20/2020 9:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/20/2020 10:38 PM, AMuzi wrote: When I was young, one might easily travel the country, always confident of finding a day or two of work everywhere and anywhere (As I did. Everywhere.) . Interesting. I did some of that too, when I was young. I also did it while not traveling, just to get spending money. But my success rate while on the road was pretty low. It seemed I'd have to spend many hours waiting inside a Manpower office to have a chance at getting anything at all. This is no longer true, to the greater loss of the nation's wealth and productivity, no more painfully felt than at the bottom of society, those who suffer most. I really am sympathetic to those people. Say what you will, many have very high barriers in front of them. And changes in work itself. It was once possible to show up at any truck terminal around midnight and to transfers (truck-to-truck, dock-to-truck) which was badly paid unskilled manual labor. Now, almost everything is palletized and moved (more efficiently) by machines. There are no mason's helpers (really crappy job and very hard work). Even dishwashing has a much lower labor content. In the larger sense these are improvements but, again, a closed door to the marginal human. Another example: I was once doing robotics work at a large manufacturing facility. A problem we were trying to solve was orienting components. Injection molding machines were spitting out thousands of components, but their orientation was random. The robotic assembly operation downstream needed perfectly consistent orientation and location. Vibratory bowl feeding is the most common solution, but couldn't work with these parts. Oh, and there was a similar problem on a different line, where the parts were larger but had to be consistently oriented to pack them for shipping. The company was trying all sorts of cutting edge technology, up to multiple machine vision systems controlling multiple robots just to get the parts oriented. At one point, I asked why we couldn't just hire people from one of the local "developmental disabilities" programs, and give them jobs orienting things. It was my understanding that some such people welcome work like that. It would give them fulfillment, pride of work, a bit more independence, etc. Nope. Not permitted. It would violate a union contract, and nobody had any interest in wading into contract modifications. When I left there, they were still wrestling with the orientation problem. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#76
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 10:23:46 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 21:38:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 2/20/2020 9:16 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 20:16:32 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 2/20/2020 6:55 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 05:30:10 -0800, sms wrote: On 2/20/2020 12:16 AM, John B. wrote: snip Wasn't California a state that instituted the "3 strikes and you're out" thing where habitual criminals were kept in jail? -- cheers, John B. Like many laws, it was a poorly thought out, feel-good law. It created tremendous prison over-crowding, keeping many people in prison that were no threat. One person received a life sentence for his third strike--stealing a piece of pizza from a group at a birthday party in a pizza place, even though he asked one of the kids for a slice and the kid nodded yes. The kid said that he was scared and prosecutors said that it was "robbery by intimidation." The 3 strikes law resulted in another poorly thought out law, Prop 47, that allowed habitual criminals to not go to prison in an effort to comply with federal mandates to reduce prison over-crowding. It has led to a wave of retail theft and car break-ins https://www.independent.org/news/news_detail.asp?newsID=1247. Go to a department store or a drug store these days and it's almost like back in the olden days where a shop employee has to get you the merchandise. And we're not just talking about liquor or smart phones, we're talking about Tide detergent, bicycle accessories, ibuprofen, sometimes even candy. It's locked up https://sacobserver.com/2018/01/shoplifting-is-to-blame-for-locked-up-items-not-walmart/. England, in the 1800's, and I'm sure other countries, have tried to solve the problems of habitual criminals. England, at least partially solved the problem, by shipping the miscreants off to Australia, but what can be done today? One might try branding a big "T" or "R" on the evildoer's cheek or forehead but that might start a new fashion trend like the ripped jeans and the four day growth of beard, Or perhaps the "Prison Farm" solution as was used in Mississippi, among other states. That could, if managed properly, turn out to be a profit making establishment. Or is working now deemed to be a cruel and unusual punishment? The precedent is a branded face with an "F" for "fugitus", which was effective because giving food or shelter to a branded fugitive was a capital crime. We're not ready for that here. Yet. While of course there are exceptions I do read that a rather large percentage of those imprisoned commit further felonies after being released, as many as 70% in some instances. It would seem that a certain percent of the population are criminally inclined and unfortunately this percentage appears to be increasing as in 1976 incarcerated amounted to some 232/100,000 in the U.S. while in 2018 it was 655/100,000, an increase of 280% in 42 years (unless I got my numbers wrong). Scary! -- cheers, John B. Many aspects of our culture have changed over that time, not the least being the demise of casual (cash) labor and draconian barriers to entry (minimum wage, reporting, ID cards, endless capricious liability resulting in 'background checks' and such) into labor markets. This is pernicious as regards young and unskilled since no 'first job' often means no job whatsoever. But it's fatal to the formerly incarcerated. When I was young, one might easily travel the country, always confident of finding a day or two of work everywhere and anywhere (As I did. Everywhere.) . This is no longer true, to the greater loss of the nation's wealth and productivity, no more painfully felt than at the bottom of society, those who suffer most. It is largely a factor of a richer economy I think. When we were first married, 50 years ago, getting a housemaid was easy. You told the housemaid next door that you wanted a maid and the next morning there would be three or four waiting at the gate. Today there aren't any Thai housemaids, they've all got a job in a factory and ride around on motorcycles. We have a woman that comes in and does the heavy work ( my wife is 75 ) and she has a pretty busy schedule - "Well, lets see, I could let you have Mondays and maybe Saturdays, as I'm busy the rest of the week". -- cheers, John B. You illustrate a very obvious difference between your part of the world, and the USA or western Europe. Almost no one lives in houses where people would be "waiting at the gate." I've never lived in a house with a gate and presumably surrounded by a fence. I assume to keep the undesirables away. I know in your part of the world there is a definite caste system. |
#77
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Friday, February 21, 2020 at 11:27:14 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 5:18:53 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:16:28 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 6:03:22 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 2:49:10 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:08:15 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 2/19/2020 11:39 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 8:44:43 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:44:15 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:30:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:47:53 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 2/18/2020 5:08 PM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:36:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: “In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel†if nothing changes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding from one county into another. Are roads in the U.S. really as bad as described here? I grew up in New England, went to school in Florida, lived in a number of states including Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, California and Maine, drove coast to coast a couple of times and while I wouldn't say that all the roads were as smooth as a billiard table I would say that they were pretty damned good. Granted I left the U.S. in 1972 but have U.S. roads deteriorate from "pretty damned good" to the wilderness of chuck holes that I see described here? -- cheers, John B. I'm also of the glass-half-full school on that. Are there roads in poor repair? Sure. But there are long term replacement schedules which can be reviewed at your State DOT web site. Example- WI Hwy 19 from Springfield Corners to Mazomanie, a road I use weekly, was about 1/4 literally AWOL. With an oncoming milk truck, the best technique was to pull over where possible and stop because two vehicles couldn't pass in large sections. That was rebuilt in 2018 and is now an absolute joy. #2- WI Hwy 60 in front of our building is being replaced this year. Sure it needs help, but I'm much less excited because this will involve an assessment and months of dust. |
#78
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On 2/20/2020 4:55 PM, John B. wrote:
snip Or perhaps the "Prison Farm" solution as was used in Mississippi, among other states. That could, if managed properly, turn out to be a profit making establishment. Or is working now deemed to be a cruel and unusual punishment? A lot of the high cost is in medical care, personnel, and food. Highly unlikely that enough money would be generated to offset those costs. Plus it would take jobs away from non-criminals. The root cause will be unlikely to be addressed. Used to be a lot of living wage union jobs in auto manufacturing, large appliance manufacturing, ship building, etc.. Those jobs have been shipped to China, Mexico, etc.. California's been especially hard hit in that regard, the only automobile factory left is Tesla. Used to have multiple Ford and GM plants, as well as the shared GM/Toyota factory that Tesla took over. Manufacturing continues to be hard hit under Trump, partly because of tariffs. In just the four months following Trump’s swearing-in nearly 12,000 American jobs were moved abroad. On top of GM’s layoffs, Ford recently announced that about 24,000 out of 202,000 workers, may lose their jobs. |
#79
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:09:03 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 10:23:46 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote: On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 21:38:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 2/20/2020 9:16 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 20:16:32 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 2/20/2020 6:55 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 05:30:10 -0800, sms wrote: On 2/20/2020 12:16 AM, John B. wrote: snip Wasn't California a state that instituted the "3 strikes and you're out" thing where habitual criminals were kept in jail? -- cheers, John B. Like many laws, it was a poorly thought out, feel-good law. It created tremendous prison over-crowding, keeping many people in prison that were no threat. One person received a life sentence for his third strike--stealing a piece of pizza from a group at a birthday party in a pizza place, even though he asked one of the kids for a slice and the kid nodded yes. The kid said that he was scared and prosecutors said that it was "robbery by intimidation." The 3 strikes law resulted in another poorly thought out law, Prop 47, that allowed habitual criminals to not go to prison in an effort to comply with federal mandates to reduce prison over-crowding. It has led to a wave of retail theft and car break-ins https://www.independent.org/news/news_detail.asp?newsID=1247. Go to a department store or a drug store these days and it's almost like back in the olden days where a shop employee has to get you the merchandise. And we're not just talking about liquor or smart phones, we're talking about Tide detergent, bicycle accessories, ibuprofen, sometimes even candy. It's locked up https://sacobserver.com/2018/01/shoplifting-is-to-blame-for-locked-up-items-not-walmart/. England, in the 1800's, and I'm sure other countries, have tried to solve the problems of habitual criminals. England, at least partially solved the problem, by shipping the miscreants off to Australia, but what can be done today? One might try branding a big "T" or "R" on the evildoer's cheek or forehead but that might start a new fashion trend like the ripped jeans and the four day growth of beard, Or perhaps the "Prison Farm" solution as was used in Mississippi, among other states. That could, if managed properly, turn out to be a profit making establishment. Or is working now deemed to be a cruel and unusual punishment? The precedent is a branded face with an "F" for "fugitus", which was effective because giving food or shelter to a branded fugitive was a capital crime. We're not ready for that here. Yet. While of course there are exceptions I do read that a rather large percentage of those imprisoned commit further felonies after being released, as many as 70% in some instances. It would seem that a certain percent of the population are criminally inclined and unfortunately this percentage appears to be increasing as in 1976 incarcerated amounted to some 232/100,000 in the U.S. while in 2018 it was 655/100,000, an increase of 280% in 42 years (unless I got my numbers wrong). Scary! -- cheers, John B. Many aspects of our culture have changed over that time, not the least being the demise of casual (cash) labor and draconian barriers to entry (minimum wage, reporting, ID cards, endless capricious liability resulting in 'background checks' and such) into labor markets. This is pernicious as regards young and unskilled since no 'first job' often means no job whatsoever. But it's fatal to the formerly incarcerated. When I was young, one might easily travel the country, always confident of finding a day or two of work everywhere and anywhere (As I did. Everywhere.) . This is no longer true, to the greater loss of the nation's wealth and productivity, no more painfully felt than at the bottom of society, those who suffer most. It is largely a factor of a richer economy I think. When we were first married, 50 years ago, getting a housemaid was easy. You told the housemaid next door that you wanted a maid and the next morning there would be three or four waiting at the gate. Today there aren't any Thai housemaids, they've all got a job in a factory and ride around on motorcycles. We have a woman that comes in and does the heavy work ( my wife is 75 ) and she has a pretty busy schedule - "Well, lets see, I could let you have Mondays and maybe Saturdays, as I'm busy the rest of the week". -- cheers, John B. You illustrate a very obvious difference between your part of the world, and the USA or western Europe. Almost no one lives in houses where people would be "waiting at the gate." I've never lived in a house with a gate and presumably surrounded by a fence. I assume to keep the undesirables away. I know in your part of the world there is a definite caste system. Disregarding "shop houses" where the family shop is on the ground floor and the family lives in the upper stories, practically all houses have a fence around them... with a gate. And, yes, it does keep the undesirables. i.e. thieves, away. And yes, there is a definite caste system in Thailand... based primarily on money. And nearly all self made. The Charoen Pokphand Group Co., for example, is the world's biggest producer of animal feed, as well as a great many other foods, was started by the grandfather of the current family selling flower seeds out of his house. The Chirathivat family controls Central Group, the country's biggest mall developer, again the business was started by the grandfather selling goods out of the front of his house. And so on. -- cheers, John B. |
#80
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 11:14:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 2/21/2020 8:54 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 2/20/2020 9:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/20/2020 10:38 PM, AMuzi wrote: When I was young, one might easily travel the country, always confident of finding a day or two of work everywhere and anywhere (As I did. Everywhere.) . Interesting. I did some of that too, when I was young. I also did it while not traveling, just to get spending money. But my success rate while on the road was pretty low. It seemed I'd have to spend many hours waiting inside a Manpower office to have a chance at getting anything at all. This is no longer true, to the greater loss of the nation's wealth and productivity, no more painfully felt than at the bottom of society, those who suffer most. I really am sympathetic to those people. Say what you will, many have very high barriers in front of them. And changes in work itself. It was once possible to show up at any truck terminal around midnight and to transfers (truck-to-truck, dock-to-truck) which was badly paid unskilled manual labor. Now, almost everything is palletized and moved (more efficiently) by machines. There are no mason's helpers (really crappy job and very hard work). Even dishwashing has a much lower labor content. In the larger sense these are improvements but, again, a closed door to the marginal human. Another example: I was once doing robotics work at a large manufacturing facility. A problem we were trying to solve was orienting components. Injection molding machines were spitting out thousands of components, but their orientation was random. The robotic assembly operation downstream needed perfectly consistent orientation and location. Vibratory bowl feeding is the most common solution, but couldn't work with these parts. Oh, and there was a similar problem on a different line, where the parts were larger but had to be consistently oriented to pack them for shipping. The company was trying all sorts of cutting edge technology, up to multiple machine vision systems controlling multiple robots just to get the parts oriented. At one point, I asked why we couldn't just hire people from one of the local "developmental disabilities" programs, and give them jobs orienting things. It was my understanding that some such people welcome work like that. It would give them fulfillment, pride of work, a bit more independence, etc. Nope. Not permitted. It would violate a union contract, and nobody had any interest in wading into contract modifications. When I left there, they were still wrestling with the orientation problem. In contrast, Thailand has, effectively, more than 100% employment with some 2 million registered foreign workers employed and probably nearly another 2 million unregistered foreign workers. And, yes, some of the largest factories have robots but work is essentially still done by hand. Of course, we don't have labor unions either. Minimum wages are set by the central government and actual wages are set largely by supply and demand. For example, my wife's "woman who comes in to help with the heavy work" (free translation) gets paid about 30% more than the minimum rate simply because there is a large demand for her services and she can charge that much. Which somehow seems pretty fair to me. -- cheers, John B. |
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