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#51
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Routemasters (again)
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:40:49 +0100
Phil W Lee wrote: "Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013 There is no such thing in UK law as a right-of-way for a motor vehicle. There is by default on motorways and other vehicle only highways such as some road tunnels and bridges. Eg Dartford crossing. NJR |
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#52
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Routemasters (again)
On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:14:57 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:40:49 +0100 Phil W Lee wrote: "Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013 There is no such thing in UK law as a right-of-way for a motor vehicle. There is by default on motorways and other vehicle only highways such as some road tunnels and bridges. Eg Dartford crossing. Motor vehicle drivers can only use those roads under licence. |
#53
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Routemasters (again)
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:28:26 +0100
Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:14:57 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:40:49 +0100 Phil W Lee wrote: "Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013 There is no such thing in UK law as a right-of-way for a motor vehicle. There is by default on motorways and other vehicle only highways such as some road tunnels and bridges. Eg Dartford crossing. Motor vehicle drivers can only use those roads under licence. That doesn't stop them having right of way. NJR |
#54
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Routemasters (again)
On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:41:50 +0100, "tim....." wrote:
IME whilst ignoring a red man does constitute jaywalking in the UK, your chances of being "ticketed" for it are somewhat less than negligible. OTHO in the US and Germany it is quite possible. So much so in Germany that I've seen pedestrians lining up at a crossing set at red around 6 in the morning in the middle of summer when you could see for a couple of hundred metres in each direction there were no moving vehicles in sight. -- |
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Routemasters (again)
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message ... In message , tim..... writes "Phil W Lee" wrote in message news "Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013 18:04:00 -0400 the perfect time to write: NY" wrote in message Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one. What do pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs pedestrians to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give way to them. "Thumper" wrote: When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds before the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a pedestrian to still be crossing. "Bertie Wooster" wrote: Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use highways)? Do you not have jaywalking laws? We have them here and for the most part they are quite vigorously enforced. Truebrit. No such thing as "jaywalking". It's term invented by american petrolheads to disparage non-motorised users of the roads. Pedestrians have a right of way on all public highways. having a right of way does not mean that you have "priority" access In the UK, no one has "right of way" on the roads Yes they do. That's what roads are. Bits of land you have the right of way to drive a vehicle down (as well as walk down). Whereas footpaths are bits of land that you have rights of way to walk down, but not drive down and bridle paths ..... But being a right of way doesn't means that one user has a priority right to do their thing over other users. It just means that the owner of the land can't stick up a sign one day withdrawing the right to use it (The RoW can only be removed using a statutory process). tim |
#56
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Routemasters (again)
"The Other Mike" wrote in message ... On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:41:50 +0100, "tim....." wrote: IME whilst ignoring a red man does constitute jaywalking in the UK, your chances of being "ticketed" for it are somewhat less than negligible. OTHO in the US and Germany it is quite possible. So much so in Germany that I've seen pedestrians lining up at a crossing set at red around 6 in the morning in the middle of summer when you could see for a couple of hundred metres in each direction there were no moving vehicles in sight. and if you step off the pavement the person next to you shouts "murderer!" (and then everyone else follows you) tim |
#57
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Routemasters (again)
On 02/08/2013 11:12, Bertie Wooster wrote:
JNugent wrote: ITYF that the car driver is still expected to anticipate such hazards I will *not* "find" that, for the simple and obvious reason that it is not true. You are mistaking the general duty to react in amelioration (where possible) of other peoples' bad behaviour as a duty to ensure or guarantee that the bad behaviour cannot have any negative effects on the person behaving badly. That people may act negligently does not oblige others to act as if the negligence is permanently under way. Everyone has a right to expect everyone else to obey the rules insofar as they might impinge on one's own rights. If that is the case, what do you make of the cyclist who, as described in another thread, mowed down a young child on a pedestrian crossing. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-23492094 From what you appear to be saying, so long as the lights on the pedestrian crossing were green for the cyclist, and the cyclist wasn't engaged in wanton or furious cycling, no offence occurred (section 170 of the 1988 road traffic act does not apply to cyclists). Was it a pelicon, or a zebra, crossing? Please be pinpoint clear in your answer (one patent possibility being that you don't know the answer, which need not be your fault) and be aware that I may have a supplementary question upon the answer to which any response to your question would hang. |
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Routemasters (again)
On 02/08/2013 13:15, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:41:50 +0100, "tim....." wrote: IME whilst ignoring a red man does constitute jaywalking in the UK, your chances of being "ticketed" for it are somewhat less than negligible. OTHO in the US and Germany it is quite possible. So much so in Germany that I've seen pedestrians lining up at a crossing set at red around 6 in the morning in the middle of summer when you could see for a couple of hundred metres in each direction there were no moving vehicles in sight. Lots of people "jaywalk" in New York. More on the grid streets than on the avenues, but still... |
#59
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Routemasters (again)
In message , tim.....
writes "Ian Jackson" wrote in message ... In message , tim..... writes "Phil W Lee" wrote in message news "Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013 18:04:00 -0400 the perfect time to write: NY" wrote in message Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good What do pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs pedestrians to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* way to them. "Thumper" wrote: When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds before the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a pedestrian to still be crossing. "Bertie Wooster" wrote: Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use highways)? Do you not have jaywalking laws? We have them here and for the most part they are quite vigorously enforced. Truebrit. No such thing as "jaywalking". It's term invented by american petrolheads to disparage non-motorised users of the roads. Pedestrians have a right of way on all public highways. having a right of way does not mean that you have "priority" access In the UK, no one has "right of way" on the roads Yes they do. That's what roads are. Bits of land you have the right of way to drive a vehicle down (as well as walk down). Whereas footpaths are bits of land that you have rights of way to walk down, but not drive down and bridle paths ..... But being a right of way doesn't means that one user has a priority right to do their thing over other users. It just means that the owner of the land can't stick up a sign one day withdrawing the right to use it (The RoW can only be removed using a statutory process). Now you're being a bit silly. The RoW you have decided to drag up, and having it, is quite different from what is commonly (and wrongly) referred to as "having right of way" on the public highway. What you have is "priority" - which is why the Highway Code calls it that. -- Ian |
#60
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Routemasters (again)
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:54:20 +0100, JNugent
wrote: On 02/08/2013 11:12, Bertie Wooster wrote: JNugent wrote: ITYF that the car driver is still expected to anticipate such hazards I will *not* "find" that, for the simple and obvious reason that it is not true. You are mistaking the general duty to react in amelioration (where possible) of other peoples' bad behaviour as a duty to ensure or guarantee that the bad behaviour cannot have any negative effects on the person behaving badly. That people may act negligently does not oblige others to act as if the negligence is permanently under way. Everyone has a right to expect everyone else to obey the rules insofar as they might impinge on one's own rights. If that is the case, what do you make of the cyclist who, as described in another thread, mowed down a young child on a pedestrian crossing. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-23492094 From what you appear to be saying, so long as the lights on the pedestrian crossing were green for the cyclist, and the cyclist wasn't engaged in wanton or furious cycling, no offence occurred (section 170 of the 1988 road traffic act does not apply to cyclists). Was it a pelicon, or a zebra, crossing? Please be pinpoint clear in your answer (one patent possibility being that you don't know the answer, which need not be your fault) and be aware that I may have a supplementary question upon the answer to which any response to your question would hang. Pelicon, he http://goo.gl/maps/bMJI8 http://goo.gl/maps/1XfpP http://goo.gl/maps/CPhwL |
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