Favourite 1980s - 1990s Vintage part?

Many bicyclists are still riding and enjoying bicycles from the 1980 - 1999 era. Also many bicyclist use some parts from that era on their newer bicycles. What's your favourite component from that era?

I have a complete Shimano 600 Arabesque group set that i like because of the engraving.

I have a single speed MIELE with a Columbus SL frame with Dura Ace AX brake calipers that i really like the looks and function of. I'd love to get a complete Dura Ace AX or 600 AX grouop set but would like a more aero looking pair of crankarms like my square taper Tiagra ones. I think that AX stuff was really cool, aero and elegant looking.

What's your favourite vintage bicycle component?

Cheers

Op 30-10-2015 om 5:23 schreef Sir Ridesalot:
Many bicyclists are still riding and enjoying bicycles from the 1980 - 1999 era. Also many bicyclist use some parts from that era on their newer bicycles. What's your favourite component from that era?

I have a complete Shimano 600 Arabesque group set that i like because of the engraving.

I have a single speed MIELE with a Columbus SL frame with Dura Ace AX brake calipers that i really like the looks and function of. I'd love to get a complete Dura Ace AX or 600 AX grouop set but would like a more aero looking pair of crankarms like my square taper Tiagra ones. I think that AX stuff was really cool, aero and elegant looking.

What's your favourite vintage bicycle component?

Cheers


Sorry I'm not into 'vintage'. That is something for people that want to
live in the past and that is fine with me. I can however understand the
satisfaction one can get to keep/make old stuff running or the appeal to
make old stuff look as new. If not it is just old and used stuff. That
is just an opinion of course. YMMV.

Lou

On 10/31/2015 2:30 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip

Sorry I'm not into 'vintage'. That is something for people that want to
live in the past and that is fine with me. I can however understand the
satisfaction one can get to keep/make old stuff running or the appeal to
make old stuff look as new. If not it is just old and used stuff. That
is just an opinion of course. YMMV.

A lot of older stuff has no new equivalent.

I would buy a couple of more Flickstands if they were still made. There
is no modern equivalent.

When Burley failed as a co-op and was reincarnated they discontinued the
Piccolo (driving up the used price) and now have brought it back. But
they worsened their trailer design, so the older models with the
wraparound frame are fetching higher prices on the used market.

sms wrote:
On 10/31/2015 2:30 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip

Sorry I'm not into 'vintage'. That is something for people that want to
live in the past and that is fine with me. I can however understand the
satisfaction one can get to keep/make old stuff running or the appeal to
make old stuff look as new. If not it is just old and used stuff. That
is just an opinion of course. YMMV.

A lot of older stuff has no new equivalent.

I would buy a couple of more Flickstands if they were still made. There
is no modern equivalent.

When Burley failed as a co-op and was reincarnated they discontinued the
Piccolo (driving up the used price) and now have brought it back. But
they worsened their trailer design, so the older models with the
wraparound frame are fetching higher prices on the used market.





That is true for a lot of new stuff. My faucet was leaking in the bathroom
and I once tried to repair one. After 18 years it is hard to find
replacement parts and if you are lucky finding them there is still a chance
the problem is not solved so I decided to replace the faucet this time. I
also wanted to replace the drain but all I could get at the DIY store is
plastic stuff instead of the nice crome plated brass one I have now. So I
spent 2 hours in the bathroom cabinet uninstalling, scraping of 18 years of
calc deposits and slime and installing it again cutting myself two times
while doing that. Is it rewarding afterwards? Yes it certainly is:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1010765...MjDr4CW4bmZ-QE

But if I could bought a replacement with the same quality for a reasonable
price I would have done that.

--
Lou

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 5:28:30 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 10/31/2015 2:30 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip

Sorry I'm not into 'vintage'. That is something for people that want to
live in the past and that is fine with me. I can however understand the
satisfaction one can get to keep/make old stuff running or the appeal to
make old stuff look as new. If not it is just old and used stuff. That
is just an opinion of course. YMMV.

A lot of older stuff has no new equivalent.

I would buy a couple of more Flickstands if they were still made. There
is no modern equivalent.

When Burley failed as a co-op and was reincarnated they discontinued the
Piccolo (driving up the used price) and now have brought it back. But
they worsened their trailer design, so the older models with the
wraparound frame are fetching higher prices on the used market.





That is true for a lot of new stuff. My faucet was leaking in the bathroom
and I once tried to repair one. After 18 years it is hard to find
replacement parts and if you are lucky finding them there is still a chance
the problem is not solved so I decided to replace the faucet this time. I
also wanted to replace the drain but all I could get at the DIY store is
plastic stuff instead of the nice crome plated brass one I have now. So I
spent 2 hours in the bathroom cabinet uninstalling, scraping of 18 years of
calc deposits and slime and installing it again cutting myself two times
while doing that. Is it rewarding afterwards? Yes it certainly is:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1010765...MjDr4CW4bmZ-QE

But if I could bought a replacement with the same quality for a reasonable
price I would have done that.

I have a first-generation Moen single-handle shower valve made in 1950. Moen currently uses an internal cartridge design developed in the '60s, but my valve has an earlier design -- which I figured out from pulling the drawings from the US Patent Office website. It's all brass and a truly fascinating implementation of the standard piston/cylinder valve (Delta, Moen, etc. pull and turn valve). This is a push and turn, and the inlet water pressure pushes the piston out and turns the valve off, so you have to have pretty stiff stem packing to keep the valve open against the water pressure -- but on the other hand, it never leaks. Somebody must have found that annoying and reversed the design -- and then created the current design -- a relatively easy to install replacement cartridge (now mostly plastic) with all the internals. My house also has the American Standard brass cartridges in the faucets -- but replacements for those are still available. That's a design from the '30s or '40s.


Anyway, with bikes, you look back on some of the old stuff and realize that it was a good idea with an odd implementation, like the Campagnolo seat post. It was a two bolt design which allowed infinite tilt adjustment, but it used two bolts buried under the saddle. Then we got one-bolt designs, which were a failure, IMO, because they went flaccid during adjustment, and you would lose your last setting. Then we got a two bolt (or one bolt and a grub screw) design -- with the bolts accessible from below. Why didn't they start with that design? Why did we ever have nail-on cleats when it was easy to install threaded inserts -- and they were commonly used in furniture. Bolt on cleats came along, and it was like a miracle.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/31/2015 9:40 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 5:28:30 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 10/31/2015 2:30 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip

Sorry I'm not into 'vintage'. That is something for people that want to
live in the past and that is fine with me. I can however understand the
satisfaction one can get to keep/make old stuff running or the appeal to
make old stuff look as new. If not it is just old and used stuff. That
is just an opinion of course. YMMV.

A lot of older stuff has no new equivalent.

I would buy a couple of more Flickstands if they were still made. There
is no modern equivalent.

When Burley failed as a co-op and was reincarnated they discontinued the
Piccolo (driving up the used price) and now have brought it back. But
they worsened their trailer design, so the older models with the
wraparound frame are fetching higher prices on the used market.





That is true for a lot of new stuff. My faucet was leaking in the bathroom
and I once tried to repair one. After 18 years it is hard to find
replacement parts and if you are lucky finding them there is still a chance
the problem is not solved so I decided to replace the faucet this time. I
also wanted to replace the drain but all I could get at the DIY store is
plastic stuff instead of the nice crome plated brass one I have now. So I
spent 2 hours in the bathroom cabinet uninstalling, scraping of 18 years of
calc deposits and slime and installing it again cutting myself two times
while doing that. Is it rewarding afterwards? Yes it certainly is:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1010765...MjDr4CW4bmZ-QE

But if I could bought a replacement with the same quality for a reasonable
price I would have done that.

I have a first-generation Moen single-handle shower valve made in 1950. Moen currently uses an internal cartridge design developed in the '60s, but my valve has an earlier design -- which I figured out from pulling the drawings from the US Patent Office website. It's all brass and a truly fascinating implementation of the standard piston/cylinder valve (Delta, Moen, etc. pull and turn valve). This is a push and turn, and the inlet water pressure pushes the piston out and turns the valve off, so you have to have pretty stiff stem packing to keep the valve open against the water pressure -- but on the other hand, it never leaks. Somebody must have found that annoying and reversed the design -- and then created the current design -- a relatively easy to install replacement cartridge (now mostly plastic) with all the internals. My house also has the American Standard brass cartridges in the faucets -- but replacements for those are still available. That's a design from the '30s or '
40s.


Anyway, with bikes, you look back on some of the old stuff and realize that it was a good idea with an odd implementation, like the Campagnolo seat post. It was a two bolt design which allowed infinite tilt adjustment, but it used two bolts buried under the saddle. Then we got one-bolt designs, which were a failure, IMO, because they went flaccid during adjustment, and you would lose your last setting. Then we got a two bolt (or one bolt and a grub screw) design -- with the bolts accessible from below. Why didn't they start with that design? Why did we ever have nail-on cleats when it was easy to install threaded inserts -- and they were commonly used in furniture. Bolt on cleats came along, and it was like a miracle.

-- Jay Beattie.


I can't see any categorical argument. Some things from the
distant past are nice ( heck I was born there) and some aren't.

in re plumbing I removed the annoyingly short lived (3~5
years) nylon float set from my 1904 upstairs toilet and made
it all Mansfiled brass original inside with parts found
under the popular plumbing area at a local hardware store.

https://www.plumbingsupply.com/image...ve-09brass.jpg



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 10/31/2015 10:40 AM, jbeattie wrote:


I have a first-generation Moen single-handle shower valve made in 1950. Moen currently uses an internal cartridge design developed in the '60s, but my valve has an earlier design -- which I figured out from pulling the drawings from the US Patent Office website. It's all brass and a truly fascinating implementation of the standard piston/cylinder valve (Delta, Moen, etc. pull and turn valve). This is a push and turn, and the inlet water pressure pushes the piston out and turns the valve off, so you have to have pretty stiff stem packing to keep the valve open against the water pressure -- but on the other hand, it never leaks. Somebody must have found that annoying and reversed the design -- and then created the current design -- a relatively easy to install replacement cartridge (now mostly plastic) with all the internals. My house also has the American Standard brass cartridges in the faucets -- but replacements for those are still available. That's a design from the '30s or '
40s.

Our problem here is that the shower in the guest bathroom is very rarely
used. (Honestly, it's most common use is by Warm Showers touring
bicyclists!) Anyway, lime deposits accumulate in the cartridge area and
make it very difficult to shut the water entirely off. It wants to drip.

Anyway, with bikes, you look back on some of the old stuff and realize that it was a good idea with an odd implementation, like the Campagnolo seat post. It was a two bolt design which allowed infinite tilt adjustment, but it used two bolts buried under the saddle. Then we got one-bolt designs, which were a failure, IMO, because they went flaccid during adjustment, and you would lose your last setting. Then we got a two bolt (or one bolt and a grub screw) design -- with the bolts accessible from below. Why didn't they start with that design? Why did we ever have nail-on cleats when it was easy to install threaded inserts -- and they were commonly used in furniture. Bolt on cleats came along, and it was like a miracle.

I understand your objections, but this is kind of like Monday morning
quarterbacking. While I never owned a Campy seatpost, I know that
mechanical design isn't as easy as some people think. And it progresses
incrementally, influenced by the culture and traditions of the relevant
field, plus by factors that aren't so apparent on Monday mornings:
production costs, manufacturing capability, material capability, etc.

We can use the Monday Morning process with car designs. Why didn't cars
in the 1970s all use front wheel drive, overhead cams and independent
rear suspension, like today? What dummies! And right now, recumbent
bicycle guys often slag the upright bike designers - how can they not
see what's obviously better?

But there are reasons for designs. Some reasons may seem not so good to
our eyes, but it might not be just because the designers were dunces.

BTW, I mentioned this befo I once attended a seminar on Design for
Manufacturability. It featured a video by a guy who designed one of
these bike seats: http://i.bnet.com/blogs/110629-easy-seat.jpg
He was absolutely convinced that his design was brilliant, and that the
only reason it didn't take over the market was because all other
designers were dunces and nearly all bicyclists were retro-grouches.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/31/2015 11:06 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/31/2015 10:40 AM, jbeattie wrote:


I have a first-generation Moen single-handle shower valve
made in 1950. Moen currently uses an internal cartridge
design developed in the '60s, but my valve has an earlier
design -- which I figured out from pulling the drawings
from the US Patent Office website. It's all brass and a
truly fascinating implementation of the standard
piston/cylinder valve (Delta, Moen, etc. pull and turn
valve). This is a push and turn, and the inlet water
pressure pushes the piston out and turns the valve off, so
you have to have pretty stiff stem packing to keep the
valve open against the water pressure -- but on the other
hand, it never leaks. Somebody must have found that
annoying and reversed the design -- and then created the
current design -- a relatively easy to install replacement
cartridge (now mostly plastic) with all the internals. My
house also has the American Standard brass cartridges in
the faucets -- but replacements for those are still
available. That's a design from the '30s or '
40s.

Our problem here is that the shower in the guest bathroom is
very rarely used. (Honestly, it's most common use is by
Warm Showers touring bicyclists!) Anyway, lime deposits
accumulate in the cartridge area and make it very difficult
to shut the water entirely off. It wants to drip.

Anyway, with bikes, you look back on some of the old stuff
and realize that it was a good idea with an odd
implementation, like the Campagnolo seat post. It was a
two bolt design which allowed infinite tilt adjustment,
but it used two bolts buried under the saddle. Then we
got one-bolt designs, which were a failure, IMO, because
they went flaccid during adjustment, and you would lose
your last setting. Then we got a two bolt (or one bolt and
a grub screw) design -- with the bolts accessible from
below. Why didn't they start with that design? Why did we
ever have nail-on cleats when it was easy to install
threaded inserts -- and they were commonly used in
furniture. Bolt on cleats came along, and it was like a
miracle.

I understand your objections, but this is kind of like
Monday morning quarterbacking. While I never owned a Campy
seatpost, I know that mechanical design isn't as easy as
some people think. And it progresses incrementally,
influenced by the culture and traditions of the relevant
field, plus by factors that aren't so apparent on Monday
mornings: production costs, manufacturing capability,
material capability, etc.

We can use the Monday Morning process with car designs. Why
didn't cars in the 1970s all use front wheel drive, overhead
cams and independent rear suspension, like today? What
dummies! And right now, recumbent bicycle guys often slag
the upright bike designers - how can they not see what's
obviously better?

But there are reasons for designs. Some reasons may seem
not so good to our eyes, but it might not be just because
the designers were dunces.

BTW, I mentioned this befo I once attended a seminar on
Design for Manufacturability. It featured a video by a guy
who designed one of these bike seats:
http://i.bnet.com/blogs/110629-easy-seat.jpg
He was absolutely convinced that his design was brilliant,
and that the only reason it didn't take over the market was
because all other designers were dunces and nearly all
bicyclists were retro-grouches.


That ancient design goes back into the 1890s and, very much
to your point, ignores that some large proportion of bike
handling relies on one's thigh against the side of the saddle.
That style saddle has a very high return rate BTW,

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 12:24:21 AM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Many bicyclists are still riding and enjoying bicycles from the 1980 - 1999 era. Also many bicyclist use some parts from that era on their newer bicycles. What's your favourite component from that era?

I have a complete Shimano 600 Arabesque group set that i like because of the engraving.

I have a single speed MIELE with a Columbus SL frame with Dura Ace AX brake calipers that i really like the looks and function of. I'd love to get a complete Dura Ace AX or 600 AX grouop set but would like a more aero looking pair of crankarms like my square taper Tiagra ones. I think that AX stuff was really cool, aero and elegant looking.

What's your favourite vintage bicycle component?

Cheers

Can we PLEASE KEEP THIS ON TOPIC? Bicycles not plumbing, folks. VBEG LOL ;)

Cheers

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 9:31:40 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 12:24:21 AM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Many bicyclists are still riding and enjoying bicycles from the 1980 - 1999 era. Also many bicyclist use some parts from that era on their newer bicycles. What's your favourite component from that era?

I have a complete Shimano 600 Arabesque group set that i like because of the engraving.

I have a single speed MIELE with a Columbus SL frame with Dura Ace AX brake calipers that i really like the looks and function of. I'd love to get a complete Dura Ace AX or 600 AX grouop set but would like a more aero looking pair of crankarms like my square taper Tiagra ones. I think that AX stuff was really cool, aero and elegant looking.

What's your favourite vintage bicycle component?

Cheers

Can we PLEASE KEEP THIS ON TOPIC? Bicycles not plumbing, folks. VBEG LOL ;)


Hey, I did both.

I look at some old stuff and can remember the day I bought it -- the smell of the boxes and the feel of the components, like my first NR derailleur that I bought when I was in high school and put on a PX 10 after hacking off the hanger. Ooops. It never occurred to me that I could tap the hanger.(Some years later, a frame-builder friend brazed on one of those repair hangers that Andrew sells.)

Anyway, I have many fond memories of first-gen Dura Ace groups and NR groups (for different bikes) and custom steel frames. I even cut the tubes and did the grunt work on several of them. I loved and fussed over my bikes in college -- until I moved in with my girlfriend, who had better parts than my bikes. I got her into cycling (rode across the U.S.), and eventually we broke up, and she took the old PX10 -- which was too small for me anyway.

I remember buying my first Bicycling! magazine in 1973 or 1974 of a rack at a 7-11. It had real articles, but the ads were the best part -- the odd-ball companies in the back where you could buy cheap components. Hey, a road test on my PX-10 (although mine was bought used and was a '69-70 model): http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_itemId=28218

I don't miss that bike in the least. In my current condition, it would be an instrument of knee torture with no low gear.

Favorite parts? None. I liked the fact that things were cheap -- $10 for a ModE rim and a few cents for Robergel and then DT spokes in the '70s. Turbo saddles were good and Unicanitor and Ideal 2002 (which I still have on my commuter). I though AX was an abomination -- a freak show with the big-hole cranks and Delta-ish brakes. I also didn't like the Arabesque. Who needs an Arabian bike?

My favorite parts are all current: STI/SPD/Look/compact cranks.

Speaking of the old days, a few weeks ago, I was commuting home, passing another cyclist on a mild climb, and I reached down to shift. WTF? I haven't had DT shifters for over 20 years. It was the strangest thing. I was worried about having a stroke, but I think I was just daydreaming about the old days or something.

-- Jay Beattie.