Mountain Bikers Try to Censor Criticism of Mountain Biking

To:
From:
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts
are saying

everyone---please 'suggest removal' of mike vandeman's uninformed
comments----we don't need that kind of B-S attached to this article in
the comments section....if enough people 'suggest removal' it will be
taken down.

thanks!

----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:53:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts are
saying | Local news, sports, weather, blogs, opinion, crime,
obituaries, business, directory, marketplace, education, high school,
family, shopping, arts, entertainment, movies, books, cooking, auto,
real estate, jobs, classifieds, photos, videos, comics, contests, and
mountain pass webcams from Wenatchee, East Wenatchee, Chelan,
Leavenworth, Waterville, Cashmere, Quincy, Entiat, North Central
Washington newspaper

Â

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...-ncw-what-the/

Mike Vandeman wrote:
To:
From:
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts
are saying

everyone---please 'suggest removal' of mike vandeman's uninformed
comments----we don't need that kind of B-S attached to this article in
the comments section....if enough people 'suggest removal' it will be
taken down.

thanks!

----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:53:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts are
saying | Local news, sports, weather, blogs, opinion, crime,
obituaries, business, directory, marketplace, education, high school,
family, shopping, arts, entertainment, movies, books, cooking, auto,
real estate, jobs, classifieds, photos, videos, comics, contests, and
mountain pass webcams from Wenatchee, East Wenatchee, Chelan,
Leavenworth, Waterville, Cashmere, Quincy, Entiat, North Central
Washington newspaper

Â

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...-ncw-what-the/

So, I'll bet now that you've posted this, a lot
of people WILL come forward and 'suggest removal'
or your comments. Had you left it alone, I'll be,
and of course there is no way to prove this, that
not very many people would have come forward.
Unless, of course, you have already ****ed the
lot of them off.

On Apr 6, 1:09*pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
To:
From:
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts
are saying

everyone---please 'suggest removal' of mike vandeman's uninformed
comments----we don't need that kind of B-S attached to this article in
the comments section....if enough people 'suggest removal' it will be
taken down.

thanks!

----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:53:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts are
saying | Local news, sports, weather, blogs, opinion, crime,
obituaries, business, directory, marketplace, education, high school,
family, shopping, arts, entertainment, movies, books, cooking, auto,
real estate, jobs, classifieds, photos, videos, comics, contests, and
mountain pass webcams from Wenatchee, East Wenatchee, Chelan,
Leavenworth, Waterville, Cashmere, Quincy, Entiat, North Central
Washington newspaper

Â

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...e-of-mountain-...

So, I'll bet now that you've posted this, a lot
of people WILL come forward and 'suggest removal'
or your comments. Had you left it alone, I'll be,
and of course there is no way to prove this, that
not very many people would have come forward.
Unless, of course, you have already ****ed the
lot of them off.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Leave it to you, to miss the point. As usual.

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Apr 6, 1:09 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
To:
From:
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts
are saying
everyone---please 'suggest removal' of mike vandeman's uninformed
comments----we don't need that kind of B-S attached to this article in
the comments section....if enough people 'suggest removal' it will be
taken down.
thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:53:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts are
saying | Local news, sports, weather, blogs, opinion, crime,
obituaries, business, directory, marketplace, education, high school,
family, shopping, arts, entertainment, movies, books, cooking, auto,
real estate, jobs, classifieds, photos, videos, comics, contests, and
mountain pass webcams from Wenatchee, East Wenatchee, Chelan,
Leavenworth, Waterville, Cashmere, Quincy, Entiat, North Central
Washington newspaper
Â
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...e-of-mountain-...
So, I'll bet now that you've posted this, a lot
of people WILL come forward and 'suggest removal'
or your comments. Had you left it alone, I'll be,
and of course there is no way to prove this, that
not very many people would have come forward.
Unless, of course, you have already ****ed the
lot of them off.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Leave it to you, to miss the point. As usual.

I'm not missing YOUR point at all. I'm just
suggesting that you can catch more flies with
honey than you can with vinegar.

And I'm not opposing your right to post what
you think you must, but I'm also not opposing
the right of those people you **** off from
taking your post down if they want to.

On Apr 7, 1:03*pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Apr 6, 1:09 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
To:
From:
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts
are saying
everyone---please 'suggest removal' of mike vandeman's uninformed
comments----we don't need that kind of B-S attached to this article in
the comments section....if enough people 'suggest removal' it will be
taken down.
thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:53:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts are
saying | Local news, sports, weather, blogs, opinion, crime,
obituaries, business, directory, marketplace, education, high school,
family, shopping, arts, entertainment, movies, books, cooking, auto,
real estate, jobs, classifieds, photos, videos, comics, contests, and
mountain pass webcams from Wenatchee, East Wenatchee, Chelan,
Leavenworth, Waterville, Cashmere, Quincy, Entiat, North Central
Washington newspaper
Â
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...e-of-mountain-....
So, I'll bet now that you've posted this, a lot
of people WILL come forward and 'suggest removal'
or your comments. Had you left it alone, I'll be,
and of course there is no way to prove this, that
not very many people would have come forward.
Unless, of course, you have already ****ed the
lot of them off.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Leave it to you, to miss the point. As usual.

I'm not missing YOUR point at all. I'm just
suggesting that you can catch more flies with
honey than you can with vinegar.

People who say that invariably cannot demonstrate it themselves. You
just think it sounds good. If you really believed it, you would be
demonstrating it yourself. Explain exactly how I can stop mountain
biking "with honey". Pour it on their gears?

And I'm not opposing your right to post what
you think you must, but I'm also not opposing
the right of those people you **** off from
taking your post down if they want to.

It's censorship, pure and simple. Mountain bikers just don't want
anyone to hear the truth about it.

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Apr 7, 1:03 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Apr 6, 1:09 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
To:
From:
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts
are saying
everyone---please 'suggest removal' of mike vandeman's uninformed
comments----we don't need that kind of B-S attached to this article in
the comments section....if enough people 'suggest removal' it will be
taken down.
thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:53:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts are
saying | Local news, sports, weather, blogs, opinion, crime,
obituaries, business, directory, marketplace, education, high school,
family, shopping, arts, entertainment, movies, books, cooking, auto,
real estate, jobs, classifieds, photos, videos, comics, contests, and
mountain pass webcams from Wenatchee, East Wenatchee, Chelan,
Leavenworth, Waterville, Cashmere, Quincy, Entiat, North Central
Washington newspaper
Â
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...e-of-mountain-...
So, I'll bet now that you've posted this, a lot
of people WILL come forward and 'suggest removal'
or your comments. Had you left it alone, I'll be,
and of course there is no way to prove this, that
not very many people would have come forward.
Unless, of course, you have already ****ed the
lot of them off.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Leave it to you, to miss the point. As usual.
I'm not missing YOUR point at all. I'm just
suggesting that you can catch more flies with
honey than you can with vinegar.

People who say that invariably cannot demonstrate it themselves. You
just think it sounds good. If you really believed it, you would be
demonstrating it yourself. Explain exactly how I can stop mountain
biking "with honey". Pour it on their gears?

I have never read anything from you stating or
agreeing with someone else that some activity
other than mountain biking causes a great deal
of environmental damage. Since I have been
pressing you with other activities which cause
as great or greater damage to the environment
than MBing you have never responded to me about
those activities. You merely come back to MBing.

This says to me that someone somewhere has caused
you some grief or discomfort and it is associated
with mountain biking. Further this says to me that
your campaign to "stop mountain biking" as you say
in the paragraph above is purely and simply a
personal vendetta.

For me to come to support your cause you will need
to modify it to:

include all forms of off-road wheeled vehicles
whether they are powered or not

and to agree that off-road wheeled vehicles are
acceptable where the user pays a fee for upkeep
of trails and/or mitigation of damage.

and to agree that all wheeled vehicles are acceptable
for use on public roads that are designed for wheeled
vehicles.


And I'm not opposing your right to post what
you think you must, but I'm also not opposing
the right of those people you **** off from
taking your post down if they want to.

It's censorship, pure and simple. Mountain bikers just don't want
anyone to hear the truth about it.

If you started actually telling the truth, the
WHOLE truth, instead of simply your one-sided, very
biased, personal attack truth, you might get more
people to listen.

On Apr 8, 5:19*pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Apr 7, 1:03 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Apr 6, 1:09 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
To:
From:
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts
are saying
everyone---please 'suggest removal' of mike vandeman's uninformed
comments----we don't need that kind of B-S attached to this article in
the comments section....if enough people 'suggest removal' it will be
taken down.
thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:53:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts are
saying | Local news, sports, weather, blogs, opinion, crime,
obituaries, business, directory, marketplace, education, high school,
family, shopping, arts, entertainment, movies, books, cooking, auto,
real estate, jobs, classifieds, photos, videos, comics, contests, and
mountain pass webcams from Wenatchee, East Wenatchee, Chelan,
Leavenworth, Waterville, Cashmere, Quincy, Entiat, North Central
Washington newspaper
Â
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...e-of-mountain-...
So, I'll bet now that you've posted this, a lot
of people WILL come forward and 'suggest removal'
or your comments. Had you left it alone, I'll be,
and of course there is no way to prove this, that
not very many people would have come forward.
Unless, of course, you have already ****ed the
lot of them off.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Leave it to you, to miss the point. As usual.
I'm not missing YOUR point at all. I'm just
suggesting that you can catch more flies with
honey than you can with vinegar.

People who say that invariably cannot demonstrate it themselves. You
just think it sounds good. If you really believed it, you would be
demonstrating it yourself. Explain exactly how I can stop mountain
biking "with honey". Pour it on their gears?

I have never read anything from you stating or
agreeing with someone else that some activity
other than mountain biking causes a great deal
of environmental damage. Since I have been
pressing you with other activities which cause
as great or greater damage to the environment
than MBing you have never responded to me about
those activities. You merely come back to MBing.

This says to me that someone somewhere has caused
you some grief or discomfort and it is associated
with mountain biking.

Your amateur psychologizing is pathetic. You wouldn't know the truth
if it hit you in the head.

Further this says to me that
your campaign to "stop mountain biking" as you say
in the paragraph above is purely and simply a
personal vendetta.

If that were true, why would I bother to read all the research on the
subject, which you obviously haven't bothered to do?

For me to come to support your cause you will need
to modify it to:

include all forms of off-road wheeled vehicles
whether they are powered or not

You are CRAZY. If you have ever read my signature, you would know that
I oppose those too. I just don't feel a need to repeat what a lot of
other people are saying.

and to agree that off-road wheeled vehicles are
acceptable where the user pays a fee for upkeep
of trails and/or mitigation of damage.

No, they aren't! Paying a fee or making them legal doesn't make them
ethical. DUH!

and to agree that all wheeled vehicles are acceptable
for use on public roads that are designed for wheeled
vehicles.

I have never met anyone as stoopid as you. I'm serious. "Design" has
nothing to do with what is ethical. Guns are "designed" to kill, but
that doesn't make their use justifiable, does it? Sheesh.

And I'm not opposing your right to post what
you think you must, but I'm also not opposing
the right of those people you **** off from
taking your post down if they want to.

It's censorship, pure and simple. Mountain bikers just don't want
anyone to hear the truth about it.

If you started actually telling the truth, the
WHOLE truth, instead of simply your one-sided, very
biased, personal attack truth, you might get more
people to listen.

Give a specific example. I think you don't know what you are talking
about, which is why you are always extremely VAGUE. Better yet, just
shut up, until you have something intelligent to say. It hasn't
happened yet!

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Apr 8, 5:19 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Apr 7, 1:03 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Apr 6, 1:09 pm, VtSkier wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
To:
From:
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts
are saying
everyone---please 'suggest removal' of mike vandeman's uninformed
comments----we don't need that kind of B-S attached to this article in
the comments section....if enough people 'suggest removal' it will be
taken down.
thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:53:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: The state of mountain biking in NCW... what the experts are
saying | Local news, sports, weather, blogs, opinion, crime,
obituaries, business, directory, marketplace, education, high school,
family, shopping, arts, entertainment, movies, books, cooking, auto,
real estate, jobs, classifieds, photos, videos, comics, contests, and
mountain pass webcams from Wenatchee, East Wenatchee, Chelan,
Leavenworth, Waterville, Cashmere, Quincy, Entiat, North Central
Washington newspaper
Â
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...e-of-mountain-...
So, I'll bet now that you've posted this, a lot
of people WILL come forward and 'suggest removal'
or your comments. Had you left it alone, I'll be,
and of course there is no way to prove this, that
not very many people would have come forward.
Unless, of course, you have already ****ed the
lot of them off.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Leave it to you, to miss the point. As usual.
I'm not missing YOUR point at all. I'm just
suggesting that you can catch more flies with
honey than you can with vinegar.
People who say that invariably cannot demonstrate it themselves. You
just think it sounds good. If you really believed it, you would be
demonstrating it yourself. Explain exactly how I can stop mountain
biking "with honey". Pour it on their gears?
I have never read anything from you stating or
agreeing with someone else that some activity
other than mountain biking causes a great deal
of environmental damage. Since I have been
pressing you with other activities which cause
as great or greater damage to the environment
than MBing you have never responded to me about
those activities. You merely come back to MBing.

This says to me that someone somewhere has caused
you some grief or discomfort and it is associated
with mountain biking.

Your amateur psychologizing is pathetic. You wouldn't know the truth
if it hit you in the head.

You might actually respond to me instead of attacking me.

Further this says to me that
your campaign to "stop mountain biking" as you say
in the paragraph above is purely and simply a
personal vendetta.

If that were true, why would I bother to read all the research on the
subject, which you obviously haven't bothered to do?

I know what wheeled vehicles do to the environment.
Locally, several landowners on whose property snow-
mobile trails cross have revoked their easements for
winter use because the same people who ride snow-
mobiles also ride four-wheelers in the summer and
they are tearing up the woods where snowmobile trails
are laid out causing extreme damage that just doesn't
happen with snowmobiles. The landowners tried to ban
the four-wheelers but it didn't work. The trails are
not policed during the summer, so they banned
everything to make a point when the trails are policed.


For me to come to support your cause you will need
to modify it to:

include all forms of off-road wheeled vehicles
whether they are powered or not

You are CRAZY. If you have ever read my signature, you would know that
I oppose those too. I just don't feel a need to repeat what a lot of
other people are saying.

Okay, then say more about them. They DO cause far
more damage than mountain bikes. The only sig of
yours which sticks is the one about building
"pure" habitat or "pure" wilderness, I'm not
sure which. How does this say anything about all
off-road wheeled vehicles?


and to agree that off-road wheeled vehicles are
acceptable where the user pays a fee for upkeep
of trails and/or mitigation of damage.

No, they aren't! Paying a fee or making them legal doesn't make them
ethical. DUH!

That isn't what I said. First they ARE legal except
where prohibited explicitly so that's not an argument.
I said that off-road wheeled vehicles should be
acceptable where the use of same will mitigate the
damage caused.

Building roads causes damage. Usage fees including gas
taxes pay for upkeep and mitigate damage. People will
use off-road wheeled vehicles regardless of what you
or I do or say, so make it so they, in some way, clean
up after themselves.


and to agree that all wheeled vehicles are acceptable
for use on public roads that are designed for wheeled
vehicles.

I have never met anyone as stoopid as you. I'm serious. "Design" has
nothing to do with what is ethical. Guns are "designed" to kill, but
that doesn't make their use justifiable, does it? Sheesh.

Don't straw man me. Using an ethical argument for anything
IS a straw man. In my part of world killing is a part of
eating. Isn't it in yours? I eat beef and venison and pork
and moose and rabbit. Some of those can only be had by the
use of guns. Is this unethical?

Also, ad-homs slide off my back, so don't bother. I'm trying
really hard to refrain from using them. I wish you would too.


And I'm not opposing your right to post what
you think you must, but I'm also not opposing
the right of those people you **** off from
taking your post down if they want to.
It's censorship, pure and simple. Mountain bikers just don't want
anyone to hear the truth about it.
If you started actually telling the truth, the
WHOLE truth, instead of simply your one-sided, very
biased, personal attack truth, you might get more
people to listen.

Give a specific example. I think you don't know what you are talking
about, which is why you are always extremely VAGUE. Better yet, just
shut up, until you have something intelligent to say. It hasn't
happened yet!

Listen up! I'm not going to go back and look up past
posts of yours wherein you imply that all mountain bikes
(and not other gear for sporting use) should all be
ground up and remelted into barbed wire to surround all
wild land.

You are and have been since I've been reading this newsgroup
on a personal vendetta regarding mountain bikes and those
who use them for any purpose whatsoever. This includes
posting articles about criminals who use mountain bikes in
the commission of their particular crime and labeling by
association all mountain bikers as criminals.

That's not the truth in any way shape or form.

So, as I say, start telling the WHOLE truth. Say it in
a way that gets people to listen rather than drives
them to actually go out and do the things you rail
against.

I've said it once and again...
You are far and away the most virulent provocateur for
people to go out and commit environmental damage on
mountain bikes. Is that what you want? If so, keep up
the good work. It's not what I want and so the reason
I've been spending time with your arguments. I hope
my time isn't wasted, though from reading what you've
posted and what's on your website, I fairly sure it is
wasted.

This says to me that someone somewhere has caused
you some grief or discomfort and it is associated
with mountain biking.

Your amateur psychologizing is pathetic. You wouldn't know the truth
if it hit you in the head.

You might actually respond to me instead of attacking me.

That is my response. When you say something idiotic, you can expect
people to call you on it.

For me to come to support your cause you will need
to modify it to:

include all forms of off-road wheeled vehicles
whether they are powered or not

You are CRAZY. If you have ever read my signature, you would know that
I oppose those too. I just don't feel a need to repeat what a lot of
other people are saying.

Okay, then say more about them.

WHY? Enough has already been said, and the damage they do is plain as
day. Not enough people are talking about the harm that mountain biking
does, so that's what I do. If you CARED, you would do something about
it.

They DO cause far
more damage than mountain bikes.

That isn't true. It depends on how many of them there are, how much
they are used, etc.

The only sig of
yours which sticks is the one about building
"pure" habitat or "pure" wilderness, I'm not
sure which. How does this say anything about all
off-road wheeled vehicles?

If there aren't any humans, then there can't be any vehicles, can
there? DUH!

I said that off-road wheeled vehicles should be
acceptable where the use of same will mitigate the
damage caused.

"Mitigation" isn't enough. How do you "mitigate" for the killing of
wildlife? Bring them back to life? You make no sense whatsoever.

Building roads causes damage. Usage fees including gas
taxes pay for upkeep and mitigate damage. People will
use off-road wheeled vehicles regardless of what you
or I do or say, so make it so they, in some way, clean
up after themselves.

How? Bring dead animals & plants back to life? You make no sense.

Don't straw man me. Using an ethical argument for anything
IS a straw man. In my part of world killing is a part of
eating. Isn't it in yours? I eat beef and venison and pork
and moose and rabbit. Some of those can only be had by the
use of guns. Is this unethical?

Yes, of course. Hunters kill the most fit animals. Predators, on the
other hand, kill the weak. That is obviously preferable.

Also, ad-homs slide off my back, so don't bother. I'm trying
really hard to refrain from using them. I wish you would too.

EVERYTHING slides off your back. You don't listen.

Listen up! I'm not going to go back and look up past
posts of yours wherein you imply that all mountain bikes
(and not other gear for sporting use) should all be
ground up and remelted into barbed wire to surround all
wild land.

You are fantasizing again. I never "implied" any such thing. I said
mountain biking should be restricted to pavement.

You are and have been since I've been reading this newsgroup
on a personal vendetta regarding mountain bikes and those
who use them for any purpose whatsoever. This includes
posting articles about criminals who use mountain bikes in
the commission of their particular crime and labeling by
association all mountain bikers as criminals.

That's YOUR assumption. I have never said that. But a huge number of
them are criminals,, or I wouldn't be able to find so much evidence.

That's not the truth in any way shape or form.

And of course I never said that. I thought you don't like straw men.
That's all you ever do.

So, as I say, start telling the WHOLE truth. Say it in
a way that gets people to listen rather than drives
them to actually go out and do the things you rail
against.

So they only mountain bike because of me? What nonsense! And if I talk
to them nice, all mountain bikers will stop mountain biking? What BS.

I've said it once and again...
You are far and away the most virulent provocateur for
people to go out and commit environmental damage on
mountain bikes.

Nonsense. They do it by choice. It has nothing to do with me. I just
force them to think about the harm that they are doing.

Is that what you want? If so, keep up
the good work. It's not what I want and so the reason
I've been spending time with your arguments. I hope
my time isn't wasted, though from reading what you've
posted and what's on your website, I fairly sure it is
wasted.

It's only wasted because you don't listen or learn. I don't know why
you are on the planet, if you don't do those two things. You are a
complete ZERO.

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
[...]
I've said it once and again...
You are far and away the most virulent provocateur for
people to go out and commit environmental damage on
mountain bikes. Is that what you want? If so, keep up
the good work. It's not what I want and so the reason
I've been spending time with your arguments. I hope
my time isn't wasted, though from reading what you've
posted and what's on your website, I fairly sure it is
wasted.

VtSkier, Mr.Vandeman is the foremost expert on mountain biking in the world.
You would be well advised to peruse all of his posts to gain a glimmer of
his intelligence. Mountain biking is an abomination. There is no
justification for it whatsoever. God Damn it all the way to Hell and back,
if you want to experience nature and wilderness, then hike it. Confine your
mountain biking to roads.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota