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The "Science" on Mountain Biking Impacts



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 22nd 04, 07:58 PM
Gary S.
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Default The "Science" on Mountain Biking Impacts

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:26:25 GMT, "Michael Paul"
wrote:

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
From: "Don Weir"

Subject: Mountain Biking
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:45:41 -0400
X-URL: http://www.mtnforum.org/

ALL of the "studies" were conducted by mountain bikers (none of them bother
to reveal that fact);

yeah, 'cuz those studies by hikers arean't slanted at all!

idiot

Just as Mikey should not be confused with real scientists, he should
also not be confused wtih real hikers.

His version of hiking, essentially walking in a few parks near his
home, has little to do with the sort of hiking most people are doing.
His pronouncements on proper hiking shoes and equipment are just as
much a joke as his pronouncments on proper cycling gear.

Remember that he hates hiking, too, and as soon as he stops the evils
of mountain biking he will move towards banning hiking in any area
where wildlife lives or ever lived.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
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  #2  
Old April 22nd 04, 08:43 PM
TM
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Default The "Science" on Mountain Biking Impacts


"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

I was present when Audrey Taylor, Rick Knight's student, presented her

paper.
She said that mountain bikers and hikers have the same impact on

wildlife.
I
pointed out to her and Rick that that conclusion wasn't warranted, since

she had
IGNORED the greater distance travelled by mountain bikers. They couldn't

answer
that.


If a hiker and a biker travelled the same distance over the same trail,


snip poetry read to a donkey

Of course this is logical and you are not, so you will never understand.


Good God Man!! I think you're infected with the virus!


  #3  
Old April 22nd 04, 08:59 PM
S o r n i
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Default The "Science" on Mountain Biking Impacts

Gary S. wrote:

Just as Mikey should not be confused with real scientists, he should
also not be confused wtih real hikers.

His version of hiking, essentially walking in a few parks near his
home, has little to do with the sort of hiking most people are doing.
His pronouncements on proper hiking shoes and equipment are just as
much a joke as his pronouncments on proper cycling gear.

Remember that he hates hiking, too, and as soon as he stops the evils
of mountain biking he will move towards banning hiking in any area
where wildlife lives or ever lived.


I disagree. I think Mikey is a genuine tree-hugging, Sierra Club
card-carrying hiker -- equipped with the latest dirt-ripping lugged (if not
spiked) boots.

He just /says/ he walks barefoot in a lame attempt to hide his blatant
hypocrisy on the issue of trail damage and rampant insect carnage.

He loves his "selfish, destructive sport", and wants to keep it for himself
while denying other users the right to enjoy nature /the way they see
fit/...

Bill "JMNSHO" S.


  #4  
Old April 23rd 04, 03:04 AM
Gary S.
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Default The "Science" on Mountain Biking Impacts

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:59:28 GMT, " S o r n i"
wrote:

Gary S. wrote:

Just as Mikey should not be confused with real scientists, he should
also not be confused wtih real hikers.

I disagree. I think Mikey is a genuine tree-hugging, Sierra Club
card-carrying hiker -- equipped with the latest dirt-ripping lugged (if not
spiked) boots.

He just /says/ he walks barefoot in a lame attempt to hide his blatant
hypocrisy on the issue of trail damage and rampant insect carnage.

He loves his "selfish, destructive sport", and wants to keep it for himself
while denying other users the right to enjoy nature /the way they see
fit/...

He has ordered hikers to wear smooth soled boots, with obvious
disregard for hiking terrain and conditions outside his experience. I
have cooperated, and by using my boots enough, the lugs have worn
down.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
  #5  
Old April 23rd 04, 03:05 AM
Gary S.
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Default The "Science" on Mountain Biking Impacts

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:18:02 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
wrote:

Ride-A-Lot wrote:
Hey Mikey? Why are you repeating your posts? How about some new
material for a change.


Because he knows that nobody reads them anyway.


Classic brainwashing includes repeating something over and over to
make the subject think it is true.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
  #6  
Old April 23rd 04, 04:51 AM
Mike Vandeman
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Default The "Science" on Mountain Biking Impacts

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:59:28 GMT, " S o r n i" wrote:

..Gary S. wrote:
..
.. Just as Mikey should not be confused with real scientists, he should
.. also not be confused wtih real hikers.
..
.. His version of hiking, essentially walking in a few parks near his
.. home, has little to do with the sort of hiking most people are doing.
.. His pronouncements on proper hiking shoes and equipment are just as
.. much a joke as his pronouncments on proper cycling gear.
..
.. Remember that he hates hiking, too, and as soon as he stops the evils
.. of mountain biking he will move towards banning hiking in any area
.. where wildlife lives or ever lived.
..
..I disagree. I think Mikey is a genuine tree-hugging, Sierra Club
..card-carrying hiker -- equipped with the latest dirt-ripping lugged (if not
..spiked) boots.

Never owned any of those stupid, expensive things.

..He just /says/ he walks barefoot in a lame attempt to hide his blatant
..hypocrisy on the issue of trail damage and rampant insect carnage.
..
..He loves his "selfish, destructive sport", and wants to keep it for himself
..while denying other users the right to enjoy nature /the way they see
..fit/...
..
..Bill "JMNSHO" S.
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #7  
Old April 24th 04, 05:21 PM
Gary S.
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Posts: n/a
Default The "Science" on Mountain Biking Impacts

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:02:17 -0400, "Daniel Lauring"
wrote:

Congrats on adding a coherent argument to the debate. Mikes stuff is so
poorly written and argued as to be totally worthless to his side.

In my opinion, you implied the real difference in "damage" to the trail, of
bikers to hikers, without emphasizing it.

Once trails are open to bikers, they tend to get more biker traffic than
hiker traffic. This is what really causes the added erosion. I think
anyone would be a fool to argue that on a mile per mile comparison a
mountain bike causes more erosion than a horse.

Having said that, it leads to other questions.

1. Could trails be made to support the added traffic? (say by applying some
type of suface material...not concrete or blacktop, but something more
natural that would hold down the surface.)

2. Would more trails lead to less erosion due to spreading out the traffic?

3. Would limiting access volume help? (say only allowing so many entries
per day...etc.)

4. Should trails be physically closed during wet periods?

5. Should access fees be charged?

It would be nice to see a healthy, logical debate.

This is an excellent example of the sort of rational debate here which
Mikey's approach completely stifles. See his response, utterly
reflexive and unreasoning and uncompromising.

A data point for you in this area would be to look at the Walden Woods
Project here in Massachusetts. This has been rebuilding erosion damage
and hardening trails and protecting vegetation around Walden Pond,
which is heavily used both by fans of HDT, but as one of the better
recreational walks in the area.

Very impressive use of high-thought, low-tech trail building
techniques to stabilize soil and encourage plant growth. Another few
years, it will be visually close to what Henry saw from his cabin, and
able to handle the many visitors.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
  #8  
Old April 24th 04, 05:33 PM
TM
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Default The "Science" on Mountain Biking Impacts


"Gary S." Idontwantspam@net wrote in message
...

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)


No fair, Gary. But the exception always proves the rule!

Wouldn't it be funny if you guys could get a constructive debate going in
spite of it all? Being driven to the margins must shatter certain
personality types!!

Kum Ba Ya and all...


 




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