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#21
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:55:47 -0400, D. Ferguson
wrote: And captain flip flop is not just fking up in the Iraq department. Foreign policy- **** Environmental issues- **** Stem Cell research- **** Religion- kooky **** Well, at least the economy is doing great, huh? JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
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#22
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
"Tom Kunich" a écrit dans le message de news:
t... "D. Ferguson" wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:11:42 GMT, "Tom Kunich" wrote: "Jay S. Hill" wrote in message thlink.net... Robert Chung wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ush-bike_x.htm http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp...tiondeaths.png This story makes me detest him a bit less, but he's still done more damage to the US and the rest of the world than any other president the US has ever had. Always nice to see the educated opinion of diplomats and government service workers who have real experience in these matters. And of course we all know that Clinton didn't do any damage to this country by selling top secret ICBM guidance technology to the Chinese while hauling bags of loot into the White House. He didn't do any damage by GIVING North Korea nuclear technology and materials which has since allowed them to build nuclear bombs and threaten Japan. Do you suppose the fact that a policy put in place by one of Hillary's cronies prevented the FBI from obtaining information which said that Mohammed Atta was planning a major terrorist strike inside the USA and which would have probably prevented 9/11 just MIGHT be construed by some people (probably only friends and relatives of 9/11 victims) as being damaging to the US in the eyes of the world? Until this last election I've always voted R. W is a dumbass. You know, I heard EXACTLY the same thing about Vietnam. All of you bozos screamed like little girls about **** you knew nothing about and then after some 4 million people were slaughtered by the communists in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia not one of you effiminite *******s said a single word. You should have listened better to the little girls screaming. Not just the ones among the 3 million vietnamese civilians killed by uncle sam, but also the ones amongst the 3/4 million Cambodian who died thanks to the illegal US bombing of that country, a bombing where B52s dropped more bombs during one six-month period in 1973 on Cambodians mostly in straw huts, than were dropped on Japan during all of World War II, the equivalent of five Hiroshimas. A bombing which according to the CIA, led the way for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, a group of extreme ethnic nationalists with marxist pretensions, to come to power in that country and be responsible for more screaming little girls. And when the Vietnamese put and end to Pol Pot's murderous regime in 1979 (no thanks to the US), the US, started secretly backing Pol Pot in exile. You should have listened more to screaming little girls, and perhaps grieving mothers. |
#23
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 05:58:59 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:55:47 -0400, D. Ferguson wrote: And captain flip flop is not just fking up in the Iraq department. Foreign policy- **** Environmental issues- **** Stem Cell research- **** Religion- kooky **** Well, at least the economy is doing great, huh? JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** I acutally don't blame much of the economic problems on Bush. Part of what we're seeing is NAFTA at work, which both parties are to blame for. Another part is the pendulum swinging from the Bill Gates 90's. And things can't just grow exponentially forever. But GAS prices.... It's 8:30am here and a little birdie told me gas prices are going from 2.45 to 2.65 at 9am. THAT crap is partly W's fault. But what do you expect? Put the middle man in anything as the president and they will buy cheaper and sell higher. Lying son of a bitch--- "What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00] With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04] |
#24
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
Howard Kveck wrote:
In article et, "Tom Kunich" wrote: "D. Ferguson" wrote in message . .. Until this last election I've always voted R. W is a dumbass. You know, I heard EXACTLY the same thing about Vietnam. All of you bozos screamed like little girls about **** you knew nothing about and then after some 4 million people were slaughtered by the communists in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia not one of you effiminite *******s said a single word. It's never occurred to you, Tom, that there was exactly zero chance of the US "winning" in Vietnam, has it? As for Cambodia, maybe you've forgotten that Nixon ordered secret heavy bombing of Cambodia, international law be damned. Besides killing thousands of innocent Cambodians, this started a massive refugee crisis, which was more than the government of Cambodia could begin to deal with. Lon Nol and his government were seriously corrupt and brutally repressive, and were seen by many Cambodians (especially after the bombing commenced) to be collaborating with the US. So Pol Pot had recruits aplenty - in fact as much as 10% of the entire population had joined up with him. Perhaps you've also forgotten that Reagan's White House were supporters of the Khmer Rouge in the early '80s. They even voted to seat a Khmer Rouge official as Cambodia's UN rep. Aid to anti-Khmer Rouge forces came about because the House foriegn-affairs subcommittee pushed for it. And who was running the House then? Democrats, Tom. The great thing about all this is that no matter how badly planned (or not planned at all) anything the Republicans - and GWB in particular - do, when it fails (to no one's surprise, except the true believers, of course), you have a ready made excuse: blame the "Liberals". You just can't accept that your guys are inept fools. This was flogged mightily last April in that "EPO and Hobby Cyclists" thread. You blamed liberals for every ill and bad thing in the world, all towards proving your point that "Liberals" won't accept responsibility for anything, but conservatives do. Apparently the irony of that was lost on you. Well, I'm sure we'll get cheap oil out of it, anyway. Steve -- Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 |
#25
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
Hey dumb**** - don't you know that the Sudan is the UN's prize
peacekeeping showpiece? And now you little girls, between your screaming of peace-at-any-cost, want us to go to war in the Sudan as well? |
#26
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
"And captain flip flop is not just fking up in the Iraq department.
Foreign policy- **** Environmental issues- **** Stem Cell research- **** Religion- kooky ****" Please try and explain what you mean here. I mean - STEM CELL RESEARCH? Exactly what has the Presidency have to do with research? Can you explain to us how it is that this sparkling new area of research that has every possibility of curing every single ill known to the human race (up to and including immortality it seems) requires GOVERNMENT funding? Is it just me, or does anyone else believe that if there were truly any substantial chance that stem cells are going to provide something of worth that industry would be lining up and paying for it themselves in an effort to gain economic advantage from the start? |
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
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#28
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
Tom Kunich wrote: Hey dumb**** - don't you know that the Sudan is the UN's prize peacekeeping showpiece? And now you little girls, between your screaming of peace-at-any-cost, want us to go to war in the Sudan as well? Dumbass - We shouldn't be involved in any foreign wars. Troops stationed in over 100 foreign nations. The "Defense Department" should have its name changed to the "Offense Department". Check out our geography: Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, the Pacific Ocean to the west, the Atlantic Ocean to the east. We're the most easily defensible nation on the face of the planet. Troops in over 100 foreign nations. Yep, it's always the other guys fault. thanks, K. Gringioni. |
#29
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
On 15 Aug 2005 08:29:10 -0700, "Tom Kunich"
wrote: Hey dumb**** - don't you know that the Sudan is the UN's prize peacekeeping showpiece? And now you little girls, between your screaming of peace-at-any-cost, want us to go to war in the Sudan as well? I'm not sure why you get so hostile everytime someone doesn't agree with you that Bush is good. Chill the **** out. You are the one who sounds like a girl at this point. Did I say we should go into the Sudan? The point is that we can't go fixing every crisis around the globe. You equate Iraq with Vietnam in the "should do" department and I'm saying if we "should do" there then why not in the Sudan? And the death of Iraqis is the very least of why your buddy went into Iraq. You know it, I know it and the people of Iraq know it. |
#30
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Biking w/o Cindy Sheehan
Howard Kveck wrote: In article t, "Tom Kunich" wrote: "Jay S. Hill" wrote in message ink.net... Robert Chung wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ush-bike_x.htm http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp...tiondeaths.png This story makes me detest him a bit less, but he's still done more damage to the US and the rest of the world than any other president the US has ever had. Always nice to see the educated opinion of diplomats and government service workers who have real experience in these matters. And of course we all know that Clinton didn't do any damage to this country by selling top secret ICBM guidance technology to the Chinese while hauling bags of loot into the White House. He didn't do any damage by GIVING North Korea nuclear technology and materials which has since allowed them to build nuclear bombs and threaten Japan. Always nice to see that your "Blame Clinton First" mechanism is in such good working order, Tom. Are you trying to tell us that the president of the US was personally selling ICBM guidance technology to the Chinese? Bags of loot - that's pretty choice. Funny, I remember that the only person with ties tothe Chinese who's gotten in trouble in the last few years was Katrina Leung, who just happened to be a prominent fundraiser for, um, the GOP. As for the technology he gave the North Koreans, that they decided to divert some of it for weapons-making purposes isn't that surprising. But the fact that GWB decided to cut negotiating with them for so long is far more problematic, as it gave them essentially three years to continue work on that project. Three years to refine that technology because GWB had to prove how macho he was: "You guys knock that off, or we won't negotiate with you!" (Stamps foot for emphasis...) Would you rather they got their nuke technology where everyone else does - Pakistan? Do you suppose the fact that a policy put in place by one of Hillary's cronies prevented the FBI from obtaining information which said that Mohammed Atta was planning a major terrorist strike inside the USA and which would have probably prevented 9/11 just MIGHT be construed by some people (probably only friends and relatives of 9/11 victims) as being damagingto the US in the eyes of the world? Boy, are you ever taking a huge stretch with Weldon's "Able Danger" story. "Hillary's cronies", heh... From the Washington Monthly: ---------------------------- WELDON'S CHART....Time magazine has more about Curt Weldon's famous "Able Danger" chart: "In a particularly dramatic scene in Weldon¹s book, Countdown to Terror, the Pennsylvania Republican described personally handing to then-Deputy National Security Adviser Steve Hadley, just after Sept. 11, an Able Danger chart produced in 1999 identifying Atta. But Weldon told Time he¹s no longer certain Atta¹s name was on that original document. The congressman says he handed Hadley his only copy. Still, last week he referred reporters to a recently reconstructed version of the chart in his office where, among dozens of names and photos of terrorists from around the world, there was a color mug shot of Mohammad Atta, circled in black marker." So: Weldon is no longer certain Atta's name was on his original chart?Isn't that the kind of thing that would stick in your memory banks? And he gave Hadley his only copy? Then how did he have a poster-size copy of the chart ‹ again without Atta's name ‹ a few months later? What's more, if Atta's name wasn't on the chart in 2001, 2002, 2003, or 2004, why did the chart suddenly have a color mug shot of Atta in 2005? Hmmm? It's pretty obvious that Weldon is, um, embellishing things a bit. Maybe more than a bit. Any chance of finding a decent Democrat to run for his seat in 2006? http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._08/006908.php ---------------------------- -- tanx, Howard I should know better than to get into this, but c'mon Howard it doesn't matter at all wether we negotiare with N Korea or Iran. They have no intention of following any agreement that they make as is evidenced by their failures to follow agreements they've made with the UN and Clinton. It's pointless to even bother talking to these people. When you are absolutely sure that someone is not going to honor what they agree to for even one second why the hell waste time even talking. Israel is handing Gaza back, but none of the groups and countries that are still at war with them and they are, has even given in enough to say that they have a right to exist and not be exterminated. You can't make deals with people who are hellbent on going in one direction. Chamberlain had plenty of talks, and mage agreements with the Nazis we found out what those were worth. Same thing with N Korea, Iran, and the Palestinian hardliners. That being said, while Clinton was not anything resembling a good president and a lousy human being IMO he has been really villified and treated to a huge propaganda campaign. Compared to the disaster this administration has been, and continues to be he looks great. Hillary would be a disaster that at least matches this administration and that might be driving some of the garbage that's being put out about his administration. I'd go through a list of where this administration has screwed up, but I'm not likely to live long enough to do that in detail, and this is from someone who thought he'd be good before his first election, and would still take him over Kerry, but that's not real rational because I can't stand Kerry. There's no way in hell for this administration to dodge the fact that they have been a disaster. They had a shot right up until going in to Iraq to come out looking good, but like everything else they've touched the screwed it up. Containment of Iraq was not working because Russia and Germany were violationg the sanctions and we new it. France was actively trying to have them lifted while violating them. There was plenty of hard evidence to call these governments out with and show that they were completely igoring the UN resolutions they'd signed. Problem was that the US was letting lot's of people do it too, and the administration wanted to go into Iraq period. I don't think there's anyway to dispute all the evidence of that. I think Blair got screwed and taken for a ride because he could see what "Old Europe" was doing, and he believed the Bush administration. He's still getting hammered for it. There's just no way in hell to defend 95% of what this administration has done. Don't think there's been anyone more dysfunctional and corrupt since US Grant. He was drunk so he had an excuse. Bush is not stupid, and no way in hell he doesn't know what's going on, so he has no excuse. There's very little doubt in my mind that "Able Danger" existed and had some of these people targeted. What I've heard through military rumor control, for what it's worth, was that they were just going to make these people disappear, but noone wanted to make that call. Turning the info over to the FBI would've had the whole operation on the front page and nothing would've happened except for another intelligence operation being wrecked and operatives and sources killed due to the leaks. The same people screaming about Plame now. Wiuld have been screaming bloody murder that we were profiling, racist and anti-Muslim for looking at these people etc and would be calling for hearings on the scale of Iran Contra, and the military was well aware of this. These people hadn't committed any crimes yet and with the FBI's history of not doing anything until they could build a solid legal case, and then still not going after some of the people they were watching prior to 911 the military wasn't going to hand this off to them or Justice. Everybody failed miserably prior to 9/11 because they couldn't decide what the actual policy should be. The whole thing is a complete mess, but this administration has made it worse at almost every step, and a lot of it looks to be very clearly related to enriching their friends and donors, or driving an agenda that's been on the extremist right's calendar for a long time now. Unfortunately, in a time when the country is, and has been facing major global challenges the administrations have ranged from mediocre to criminally incompetent. Not a good picture, and I don't see much hope in the next election cycle either. We talk enough, and share enough info rationally that I think we both get a more accurate picture since we are coming from radically different directions and sources and I think we agree that the concensus, from anything but the pure propaganda sources, is that this administration has been a disaster of epic proportions. Now I'm basically ducking out because I'm tired of trying to have a discussion with ideologues on either side of this, and lord knows there's no shortage of them, half taking Air America as ultimate truth, and the other half the same with Limbaugh and the National Review and we're a much poorer country for it. Thanks Howard. Bill C |
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