Its Started

On Jan 4, 11:16*pm, Howard Kveck wrote:

* *Hmm, the evidence seems to indicate that you distort, misinterpret, lie about and
assign positions to me, as well as, in this case, ignore any and all things that
Israel does.

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard

* * * * * * * * * * * * *Caught playing safe
* * * * * * * * * * * * * It's a bored game

* * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Looks like I mistaken on one thing, the "kinda ****ty" was aimed at
FARC, this is the FDR bit:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...5f 3213742a62

Yep, nothing like Internment Camps for US citizens to make you a great
President.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...can_internment


That's the real American spirit!

Of course it isn't. The internment was a completely crap thing to
do. However, one
has to consider all the other things FDR did.


I could go through your whole post and answer but it's useless. You
won't even answer a simple question whether attempted murder which
fails through no fault of the perpetrator is as bad as murder. You go
into a spin cycle which is pretty much what you always do when pressed
for basic answers.
Let's add another simple question, is purposely attempting to kill as
many innocent civilians as possible while calling for the whole groups
extermination equivalent to returning fire on a mortar position that's
sited on the roof of an apartment building and killing the civilians
being used to shield that position along with the mortar crew?
If historical context means nothing then we need to rethink
reperations, bans on Nazi speech, etc...They've done much less damage
recently than the folks you support.
Howard have a great year. I'm not gonna waste another year doing this
**** with you when it's impossible to get a straight answer to a
simple question.
The numbers are a complete strawman and totally irrelevant to
question of whether attempting to purposely kill civilians is a
serious problem or not. I'm guessing you wouldn't have **** to say,
and would be bitching at me for attempting to get you to condemn it if
those 5000 rockets had killed 10s of thousands of Israeli civilians.
I'm not gonna bother digging up the stuff where I've condemned the
Israeli actions again. In case you hadn't noticed Kurgan and I have
had this paralell conversation, the difference is we disagree but he's
coldly rational and not anyone's tool, or toolmaker which is more apt
for you because you will never be anyone's puppet.
For both you and Phillip, if intentionally targeting civilians is a
violation of international law, and it seems to be, where are the
calls for the leadership of the Palestinian groups, the people
carrying out the acts, and their enablers to be arrested and held
accountable? There are plenty of calls to arrest and charge various
Israelis and some have had to cancel trips to Europe to avoid possible
prosecution, but how about the Islamists?
Maybe I've just missed those calls.
Bill C

"Bill C" wrote in message
...
On Jan 4, 11:16 pm, Howard Kveck wrote:
Yep, nothing like Internment Camps for US citizens to make you a great
President.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...can_internment

That's the real American spirit!

Of course it isn't. The internment was a completely crap thing to
do. However, one has to consider all the other things FDR did.

I love it when people who don't have a clue what was happening, strive to
sound intelligence.

My best friend when growing up was an internee. He was never bothered by it
until the 80's when suddenly the relocation camps became "concentration
camps" in order to make people believe that they were like the German death
camps.

And equally amazing to me is the same people who almost worship Franklin D.
Roosevelt will scream about the "concentration camps" as if the government
did this for no reason at all. Or even better: I've in the past seem someone
here post that west coast "businessmen" wanted to steal the Japanese's
property and that was the only reason for the "concentration camps".

For the uninformed:

1) Only the Japanese who were living in defense sensitive areas were
relocated. Germans and Italians were as well. Much has been made of the fact
that American citizens were so treated without mentioning that those
relocated were also Japanese dual citizenship OR THEIR CHILDREN. What's
more, outside of defense sensitive areas the Japanese-Americans were not
bothered. Fact is that it was probably better to get the Japanese out of the
area which were threated by Japanese attacks. It might well have saved some
of their lives from mobs.

2) Because of intercepted Japanese spy communications it was believed that
ANY Japanese could become a spy. By the way - this was widely believed in
the Japanese government as well. In my opinion and with plenty of history to
support it, this was NOT the case. However, it was believed so at the time
and they had plenty of reasons to believe it. And since the US government
didn't understand much beyond their white middle class upbringing it wasn't
a surprise that they made such a mistake. However, better safe than sorry.

3) My friend's father came back to Oakland and opened his gardening service
and was successful enough to own a couple of houses including having a new
beautiful large two story home built with a maze-type Japanese garden in the
back. Compare this to my father who worked his entire life and died near
poverty.

4) The actions taken were indeed tinged with racism but that was so common
at the time that no one even realized it. However, it wasn't as if there
were no reasons for what they did and the end result wasn't the horrible
thing that is commonly presented.

On Jan 5, 1:52*pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"Bill C" wrote in message

...

On Jan 4, 11:16 pm, Howard Kveck wrote:
Yep, nothing like Internment Camps for US citizens to make you a great
President.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...can_internment

That's the real American spirit!

Of course it isn't. The internment was a completely crap thing to
do. However, one has to consider all the other things FDR did.

I love it when people who don't have a clue what was happening, strive to
sound intelligence.

snipped


http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW2/j...ment_camps.htm

Quoted:
On February 19th 1942 Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066. Under the
terms of the Order, some 120,000 people of Japanese descent living in
the US were removed from their homes and placed in internment camps.
The US justified their action by claiming that there was a danger of
those of Japanese descent spying for the Japanese. However more than
two thirds of those interned were American citizens and half of them
were children. None had ever shown disloyalty to the nation. In some
cases family members were separated and put in different camps. During
the entire war only ten people were convicted of spying for Japan and
these were all Caucasian.

Life in the camps was hard. Internees had only been allowed to bring
with then a few possessions. In many cases they had been given just 48
hours to evacuate their homes. Consequently they were easy prey for
fortune hunters who offered them far less than the market prices for
the goods they could not take with them.

"It was really cruel and harsh. To pack and evacuate in forty-eight
hours was an impossibility. Seeing mothers completely bewildered with
children crying from want and peddlers taking advantage and offering
prices next to robbery made me feel like murdering those responsible
without the slightest compunction in my heart." Joseph Yoshisuke
Kurihara speaking of the Terminal Island evacuation.

Pretty clear and simple.
Bill C

On Jan 5, 12:12*am, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

Dumbass -

There isn't a nation on the face of the planet that wouldn't fight if
a neighbor was annexing its territory.

If Israel wants peace, she's gotta start by NOT EXPANDING.

duh.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree. They've been playing a shell game with the settlements too.
VERY publicy closing and evacuating a few while building/allowing many
more quietly.
Bll C

On Jan 5, 11:52*am, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

For the uninformed:

1) Only the Japanese who were living in defense sensitive areas were
relocated. Germans and Italians were as well. Much has been made of the fact
that American citizens were so treated without mentioning that those
relocated were also Japanese dual citizenship OR THEIR CHILDREN. What's
more, outside of defense sensitive areas the Japanese-Americans were not
bothered. Fact is that it was probably better to get the Japanese out of the
area which were threated by Japanese attacks. It might well have saved some
of their lives from mobs.

As usual, Kunich's ramblings are a vision of
the world as Kunich wishes rather than as it was.
Probably nobody here really thinks it was fine and
dandy to deport all the Japanese-Americans to
the High Sierra and confiscate their property.

I did learn while in Santa Cruz that Italians there
were in fact relocated, although many of them were
forced to move inland of Mission Street, which was
not as bad as being sent to a cold dusty prison camp
in the Sierras. What I don't understand is how an
injustice done to Italians is supposed to excuse a
greater injustice done to Japanese.

Source:
http://www.santacruzpl.org/history/ww2/male.shtml

"In addition to such overtly racist [anti-Japanese]
sentiments, there were also political factors preventing
Italian (and German) relocation. ... in Hawaii, however,
where there were 140,000 Japanese nationals (constituting
37 percent of the population), the Japanese were neither
relocated nor interned. Even though such actions would
have appeared even more congruent with strategic concerns,
the political and economic implications of such a move
would have been overwhelming. The Japanese were only
vulnerable on the mainland.

"Thus, by late March, the idea of evacuating Italian and
German residents out of the state was losing support,
while the movement to relocate all Japanese residents
gained momentum. In the ensuing five months, more
than 100,000 Japanese -- 70 percent of them U.S. citizens --
were forcibly removed to inland concentration camps,
beginning one of the greatest tragedies in American history."

Ben

On Jan 2, 10:11*pm, MagillaGorilla wrote:
Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,
*MagillaGorilla wrote:

wrote:

Hey get it right, will you. Rockets from Gaza have killed 19 last
year. So I guess Isrealis should just sit and wait until the count
reaches what...100?? Most of the Palestinians killed were Hamas
forces.

Look at all the children killed and injured by the Israelis.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b3_1230864719

* *Lots of people find it easy to call anyone killed by the Israelis a "Hamas member"
- it makes it easier to justify what the Israelis are doing, I guess. And Bluecap3000
is wrong about the number of people killed by rockets from Gaza:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rocket_attacks

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard

* * * * * * * * * * * * *Caught playing safe
* * * * * * * * * * * * * It's a bored game

* * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Look at that....8 deaths since 2000, and Israel responds by killing
dozens of children
and women in air strikes. * Can Bluecap3000 tell us which ones of the
children in this
video were Hamas members?


Check the video link again: it's a 2005 video of a Hamas accidental
explosion.
Brilliant...

"Bill C" wrote in message
...

http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW2/j...ment_camps.htm

Quoted:
On February 19th 1942 Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066. Under the
terms of the Order, some 120,000 people of Japanese descent living in
the US were removed from their homes and placed in internment camps.
The US justified their action by claiming that there was a danger of
those of Japanese descent spying for the Japanese. However more than
two thirds of those interned were American citizens and half of them
were children.

Let me repeat this since you insist on pretending that crap you quoted is
the "true story". Japan allowed Japanese living in the USA to hold dual
citizenship and aside from one third that held pure Japanese citizenship
another 3rd of those held DUAL citizenship. The remainders were almost ALL
children. Or is it your position that the children should have been removed
from their parents?

None had ever shown disloyalty to the nation.

The fact is that the primative US intelligence apparatus HAD intercepted
Japanese communications including direct spying of shipping along the entire
US western coastline. This WAS the reason behind the internment since in
those communication the Japanese spy apparatus here said that they could
"convert" any Japanese.

How do you propose we could have told the difference at that time between
the "good" Japanese citizens and the "bad"?

In some cases family members were separated and put in different
camps.

I don't know about that but I doubt that it happened with any frequency.
Most of the camps were run by military officers who were as against such
things as the Japanese under their control.

the entire war only ten people were convicted of spying for Japan and
these were all Caucasian.

Maybe you missed it - the Japanese were in internment camps. How is it you
propose they were to then spy?

Life in the camps was hard. Internees had only been allowed to bring
with then a few possessions.

Tell me about basic training...

But OK, you've completely convinced me. Roosevelt conspired with wicked
businessmen all over the USA to steal the property and money of the Japanese
and to put them in criminally harsh prisons in which most of them died.

More proof that the Democrats are hateful stealing racist *******s.

" wrote in message
...

I did learn while in Santa Cruz that Italians there
were in fact relocated, although many of them were
forced to move inland of Mission Street, which was
not as bad as being sent to a cold dusty prison camp
in the Sierras.

Of course you apparently didn't learn that it was only people with Italian
(and German) CITIZENSHIP who were so treated. But then it never surprises me
that you need to prove your Liberalism so much that you're more than willing
to misinterpret anything and if that won't work simply outright lie about
it. Nevermind the international laws concerning foreign nationals in
counties that are at war with each other.

According to you and your Liberal pals, anyone that's here should have the
keys to the kingdom.

By the way, in case you were unaware, the Texas relocation camps contained
Italians and Germans from as far away as New York.

What I don't understand is how an injustice done to Italians
is supposed to excuse a greater injustice done to Japanese.

What is stupidest of ALL is that you are more than willing to cut out the
part where I specifically say that it was wrong and then pretend that I'm
saying it was the right thing to do. Or maybe you didn't read down to point
four because you were more interested in arguing than in discussing.

Too bad you will never become a man.

On Jan 4, 2:38*pm, Donald Munro wrote:
Paul G. wrote:
Problem solved. The Jews turn the desert into a highly profitable
financial center with world-class comedy clubs. The Palestinians get their
pile of rocks and sand back. The US taxpayers stop having to pay billions
of dollars a year to subsidize Israel. Everybody's happy! -Paul

So what happens to Vegas ? Can it handle the competition ?

Vegas is too big to fail. We have a printing press.

On Jan 2, 12:17*pm, Fred Fredburger
wrote:


It is insane to blame everything that happened everywhere in the world
for the last 8 years on Bush.

It will eventually be as insane to blame everything that happens
everywhere in the world on Obama. ...

If there were no crazies, there would be no politics.