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#31
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Weights of my bikes
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 5:20:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:15:30 AM UTC-7, wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 19:55:43 UTC+2 schreef : On Tue, 18 May 2021 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 19:04:53 UTC+2 schreef : On Tue, 18 May 2021 06:38:23 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 04:53:45 UTC+2 schreef James: On 18/5/21 10:22 am, jbeattie wrote: BTW, your garage operating room is again impressive. I wouldn't know how to work in such a clean, well organized and lighted space.. It would be disorienting. I'm acclimated to the dim, industrial revolution feel of my garage and basement shop. That's a garage? I thought it was Lou's kitchen! -- JS At the moment it is the repair shop of my dryer: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DfgedkfM7euUvgo28 Lou, waiting for parts. I think I see the problem with the dryer. Such dryers were not designed to operate in a clean room environment. They work best when fed a diet of lint and dust. I suggest you prime your dryer with these ingredients and see if it magically recovers. The problem is the suppression capacitor (is that correct English?) and the heater. https://photos.app.goo.gl/puAn2wC9jP9jKVVX9 No. It's either the induction motor "start capacitor" or the "run capacitor". I can't tell from your photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_capacitor https://www.capefearair.com/article/what-is-the-difference-between-a-start-capacitor-and-a-run-capacitor There should also be a motor centrifugal cutoff switch in series with the start capacitor, which disconnects the start capacitor as soon as the motor reaches operating speed. If the contacts on this switch fail to open due to insufficient RPM or the switch is in some way defective, the start capacitor will become very hot very quickly. I don't think so it is the capacitor that has to prevent spikes on the grid. Here is a different view: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mum5VkyGag93BFj1A the blue, brown and yellow/green wires (Dutch and EU(?) color codes) are connected to the power plug that goes into the wall socket. My fuse blew even after I had turned off the dryer (power plug still plugged in). I concluded that this capacitor had a shorcut so I removed the side panel and I found this. Also checked the heater and that was not looking good either although I don't think this caused the fuse to blow but I will replace it anyway. I'm open for better suggestions. The fuse that blew I would assume was in your home electrical system. From the number of wires I would expect your home service is three phase AC. The capacitor is three capacitors and each end is attached to one phase and to hard ground. That is how it protects against surges. In that manner the dryer turned off would not effect the blowing of the fuse IF one of the capacitors was shorted. This could happen with a high voltage surge. Surge protectors like this plays hob with the electrical phases. You don't need phase shift capacitors to start a three phase motor. A dryer is single phase 220. -- Jay Beattie. |
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#32
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Weights of my bikes
On Tue, 18 May 2021 17:20:44 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote: The fuse that blew I would assume was in your home electrical system. Most houses have circuit breakers, not fuses. From the number of wires I would expect your home service is three phase AC. Ummm... did you look at the data sheet for the dryer? I was rather surprised to see that the US version runs on 120VAC 60Hz: https://www.mieleusa.com/e/t1-heat-pump-tumble-dryer-twi-180-wp-eco-and-steam-wificonn-ct-lotus-white-10666300-p Click on "Technical Details" and then "Show all technical details". The numbers are near the bottom of the page. Belgium runs on 230VAC 50Hz. The Miele site for Belgium limits me to French and Dutch. https://www.miele.be/fr/c/index.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=fr I can blunder my way through the French. The site insists that I register before I can look at their catalog. So, I'm stuck. To the best of my knowledge, few homes have 3 phase power. In the US, domestic power is normally 2 phase 115VAC. The 2 phases are combined to form 230VAC for running higher power appliances such as air conditioners and dryers. It is possible to obtain 3 phase power from the local power company, but it's not very commonly done. Most often, homeowners who need 3 phase power to run their home machine shops use a VFD (variable frequency drive) converter, that takes the 230VAC 2 phase and converts it to 230VAC 3 phase: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-frequency_drive We have one running a mill and a lathe at a friends home machine shop: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/CNC-conversion/index.html Sorry, I forgot to take a photo of the VFD. The capacitor is three capacitors and each end is attached to one phase and to hard ground. That is how it protects against surges. The capacitor is there to comply with European conducted EMI/RFI specifications, which are more stringent than US specifications. If you want to suppress power surges, you use a surge suppressor, which is composed of LC filters and MOV (metal oxide varistors) devices to clamp the maximum voltage to a safe level. In that manner the dryer turned off would not effect the blowing of the fuse IF one of the capacitors was shorted. This could happen with a high voltage surge. Surge protectors like this plays hob with the electrical phases. Sorry, you lost me there. It's really difficult to blow a fuse by turning something off. You don't need phase shift capacitors to start a three phase motor. Yes, that's correct. However, the 3 phase power usually does NOT come from the AC power line. The motor is 3 phase, driven by an AC to DC to 3 phase AC VFD (variable frequency drive) that provides the 3 phases. You'll find those in modern power tools, appliances, etc. It's NOT as simple as it sounds, but is very useful for devices that require different speeds, such as a washing machine, torque control, maximum efficiency, and of course, lowest possible cost: "Washing Machine Three-Phase AC Induction Motor Drive" https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN3234.pdf The 3 phase drive technology is also applicable to eBikes: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-three-phase-one-e-bike#/ https://electripbikes.com/its-here/ Not much benefit over brushless DC motors, except that the AC motor is smaller. Soon, everyone will be riding an eBike powered by a tiny 3 phase motor. I was going to give you a perfect score for getting everything wrong, but you redeemed yourself with one last correct explanation (even if you got the source of the 3 phase power wrong). Congratulations and better luck next time. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#33
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Weights of my bikes
On 5/18/2021 7:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:15:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/18/2021 11:16 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: Jay, we've just gone through this entire charade of titanium being as fatigue prone as anything else. Bull****. Nobody said that. It sprung from your imagination. We don't get actual fatigue failures unless a material is stressed to 90% or so of its maximum strength repeatedly. Also bull****. Quit spouting ignorant nonsense. Frank, you continue to make it clear why you were a teacher and not a real engineer. http://www.metalspiping.com/the-fati...um-alloys.html "The fatigue behaviours are often illustrated by a Stress – Number of Cycles (S-N) curve, which are often described by two parameters: fatigue life tells us how long a titanium component survives at a particular stress, while fatigue strength is the maximum stress a titanium component endures without occurance of fatigue cracks after a large numbers of cycles," A real engineer is aware that there are stress levels below where fatigue failures do not occur. I have been aware of that for over 50 years. That does not refute what I said above, nor does it confirm what you said above. For one thing, a typical value of the fatigue limit (or endurance limit) is roughly 50% of the ultimate strength of a metal. It's nowhere near 90%. Want a reference? Try Table 1 of this paper: https://www.osti.gov/pages/servlets/purl/1564171 So your response is yet another Kunich deflection, even though you gave a largely irrelevant web citation. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#34
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Weights of my bikes
jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 5:20:46 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:15:30 AM UTC-7, wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 19:55:43 UTC+2 schreef : On Tue, 18 May 2021 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 19:04:53 UTC+2 schreef : On Tue, 18 May 2021 06:38:23 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 04:53:45 UTC+2 schreef James: On 18/5/21 10:22 am, jbeattie wrote: BTW, your garage operating room is again impressive. I wouldn't know how to work in such a clean, well organized and lighted space. It would be disorienting. I'm acclimated to the dim, industrial revolution feel of my garage and basement shop. That's a garage? I thought it was Lou's kitchen! -- JS At the moment it is the repair shop of my dryer: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DfgedkfM7euUvgo28 Lou, waiting for parts. I think I see the problem with the dryer. Such dryers were not designed to operate in a clean room environment. They work best when fed a diet of lint and dust. I suggest you prime your dryer with these ingredients and see if it magically recovers. The problem is the suppression capacitor (is that correct English?) and the heater. https://photos.app.goo.gl/puAn2wC9jP9jKVVX9 No. It's either the induction motor "start capacitor" or the "run capacitor". I can't tell from your photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_capacitor https://www.capefearair.com/article/what-is-the-difference-between-a-start-capacitor-and-a-run-capacitor There should also be a motor centrifugal cutoff switch in series with the start capacitor, which disconnects the start capacitor as soon as the motor reaches operating speed. If the contacts on this switch fail to open due to insufficient RPM or the switch is in some way defective, the start capacitor will become very hot very quickly. I don't think so it is the capacitor that has to prevent spikes on the grid. Here is a different view: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mum5VkyGag93BFj1A the blue, brown and yellow/green wires (Dutch and EU(?) color codes) are connected to the power plug that goes into the wall socket. My fuse blew even after I had turned off the dryer (power plug still plugged in). I concluded that this capacitor had a shorcut so I removed the side panel and I found this. Also checked the heater and that was not looking good either although I don't think this caused the fuse to blow but I will replace it anyway. I'm open for better suggestions. The fuse that blew I would assume was in your home electrical system. From the number of wires I would expect your home service is three phase AC. The capacitor is three capacitors and each end is attached to one phase and to hard ground. That is how it protects against surges. In that manner the dryer turned off would not effect the blowing of the fuse IF one of the capacitors was shorted. This could happen with a high voltage surge. Surge protectors like this plays hob with the electrical phases. You don't need phase shift capacitors to start a three phase motor. A dryer is single phase 220. -- Jay Beattie. In North America, definitely. |
#35
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Weights of my bikes
Op woensdag 19 mei 2021 om 02:26:38 UTC+2 schreef :
On Tue, 18 May 2021 11:15:28 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 19:55:43 UTC+2 schreef : On Tue, 18 May 2021 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 19:04:53 UTC+2 schreef : On Tue, 18 May 2021 06:38:23 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 04:53:45 UTC+2 schreef James: On 18/5/21 10:22 am, jbeattie wrote: BTW, your garage operating room is again impressive. I wouldn't know how to work in such a clean, well organized and lighted space. It would be disorienting. I'm acclimated to the dim, industrial revolution feel of my garage and basement shop. That's a garage? I thought it was Lou's kitchen! -- JS At the moment it is the repair shop of my dryer: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DfgedkfM7euUvgo28 Lou, waiting for parts. I think I see the problem with the dryer. Such dryers were not designed to operate in a clean room environment. They work best when fed a diet of lint and dust. I suggest you prime your dryer with these ingredients and see if it magically recovers. The problem is the suppression capacitor (is that correct English?) and the heater. https://photos.app.goo.gl/puAn2wC9jP9jKVVX9 No. It's either the induction motor "start capacitor" or the "run capacitor". I can't tell from your photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_capacitor https://www.capefearair.com/article/what-is-the-difference-between-a-start-capacitor-and-a-run-capacitor There should also be a motor centrifugal cutoff switch in series with the start capacitor, which disconnects the start capacitor as soon as the motor reaches operating speed. If the contacts on this switch fail to open due to insufficient RPM or the switch is in some way defective, the start capacitor will become very hot very quickly. I don't think so it is the capacitor that has to prevent spikes on the grid. Here is a different view: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mum5VkyGag93BFj1A the blue, brown and yellow/green wires (Dutch and EU(?) color codes) are connected to the power plug that goes into the wall socket. My mistake. You're correct. The capacitor is an EMI/RFI suppression capacitor to reduce conducted electric motor noise in the AC wiring. I couldn't tell from the original photo what the remains of the capacitor were used for. I also failed to notice the real motor start capacitor in the lower right of your original photo: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DfgedkfM7euUvgo28 Let's say that I was distracted by the clean workbench and high end bicycles. My fuse blew even after I had turned off the dryer (power plug still plugged in). I concluded that this capacitor had a shorcut so I removed the side panel and I found this. Also checked the heater and that was not looking good either although I don't think this caused the fuse to blow but I will replace it anyway. I'm open for better suggestions. I wish I had a better theory. The problem is finding an explanation for both the shorted capacitor and the melted heater element. The heater is after the capacitor in the circuit. Therefore a shorted capacitor would not cause the heater to melt. Most likely, a shorted capacitor would blow a fuse or thermal breaker, leaving the heater untouched. Similarly, either an open or shorted heater element would not cause the capacitor to fail. The only explanation I can contrive is that the heater and the capacitor failed because of unrelated and unconnected faults. My guess(tm) is the heater element failed because whatever electronics control its temperature did something wrong. I have no idea what that might be without a schematic. My guess(tm) is the EMI/RFI capacitor failed because of a power line high voltage spike or dielectric breakdown due to overheating. If the capacitor is fairly close to the failed heating elements, that might be a connection. What worries me is that replacing both the capacitor and heater element might not be the cause of their failure, and that the original cause for having both the capacitor and heater element fail, is still lurking in the dryer. If you have a multimeter, and with the dryer unplugged, you might want to check for a short across the 240VAC line. (That's easier than tripping the circuit breaker). I was unable to find a service manual, wiring diagram, or schematic online for the TWI-180 model. In the USA, there is usually a printed wiring diagram provided somewhere inside the dryer. Usually, it's in a plastic envelope taped to the inside of a rear or side panel. If you find the wiring diagram inside the dryer, please scan it and post it. Miele TWI 180 WP Eco & Steam WiFiConn@ct https://www.mieleusa.com/e/t1-heat-pump-tumble-dryer-twi-180-wp-eco-and-steam-wificonn-ct-lotus-white-10666300-p Operating instructions: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1360239/Miele-Twi-180-Wp.html Good luck and please monitor the temperature when you first turn it on. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 Jeff to clear things up my dryer is a Siemens WTXL722NL05 not a Miele (that is my washer) and a circuit breaker in my electrical system blew not a fuse in the the dryer. I just reset that one after unplugging the dryer. As for the heater they are known for failing after some times. This dryer is about 10 year old. Sorry for the misunderstanding because of my bad English. Lou |
#36
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Weights of my bikes
On Tue, 18 May 2021 16:38:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:16:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: Titanium in most cases doesn't get anywhere near the required stress limits to fatigue since it is so damned strong to begin with. This is why I said that if the Ti frameset doesn't fail in the first month or so it will last virtually forever. "The Fatigue of Titanium and Titanium Alloys" http://www.metalspiping.com/the-fatigue-of-titanium-and-titanium-alloys.html "Fatigue life tells us how long a titanium component survives at a particular stress, while fatigue strength is the maximum stress a titanium component endures without occurrence of fatigue cracks after a large numbers of cycles, such as 10^8." You'll find that if you stress titanium enough times (such as 10^8 times), it will crack. If you attach a few strain gauges to the various tubes of a titanium frame, and use a data logger to count the number of stress cycles, you might find that 10^8 cycles (100,000,000 cycles) arrives fairly soon, especially when every bump in the road is considered a stress cycle. Hmmm... I could probably guestimate the Ti frame life. A 700c wheel is very close to 2 meters circumference. In 1 km, that's 500 wheel revolutions. Pulling a number out of my hat, I would guess(tm) about 1 stress cycle per revolution, or 500 bumps per km. 10^8 bumps would require riding: 1*10^8 bumps / 500 bumps/km = 200,000 km At 100 km/week, that would take: 200,000km / 100km/week = 2,000 weeks 2,000 weeks / 52 weeks/year = 38 years of riding before your titanium frame falls apart. I expected less, but 38 years seems acceptable. If you want a better number, attach on the strain gauges and provide a number for how many bumps per km your experience while riding. http://www.metalspiping.com/the-fati...um-alloys.html The point that you are missing in your calculation is the severity of the stress imposed. At a stress of 900 MPa (130,533.96 psi) the titanium sample broke after a bit less then 10^4 cycles and at a stress of 600 MPa (87,022 psi) it required ~10^7 cycles. Another point is that the strength and fatigue failure of titanium varies greatly depending on the alloy. the numbers above are obviously for an alloy of titanium but pure titanium fails as low as 275 MPa (39,885 psi) for 10^7 cycles in the annealed condition and as cold rolled at 300 MPa (43,511 psi) for 10^7 cycles. So, if a titanium alloy you may be able to hit 10,000,000 bumps at a force of 87,022 psi before the bicycle breaks :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#37
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Weights of my bikes
On 18/5/21 11:38 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 04:53:45 UTC+2 schreef James: On 18/5/21 10:22 am, jbeattie wrote: BTW, your garage operating room is again impressive. I wouldn't know how to work in such a clean, well organized and lighted space. It would be disorienting. I'm acclimated to the dim, industrial revolution feel of my garage and basement shop. That's a garage? I thought it was Lou's kitchen! -- JS At the moment it is the repair shop of my dryer: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DfgedkfM7euUvgo28 Lou, waiting for parts. Our dryer looks remarkably less complicated. https://www.hillshome.com.au/our-pro...t-clothesline/ -- JS |
#38
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Weights of my bikes
On 18/05/2021 13:56, Lou Holtman wrote:
In my case that was about 4 years, not really enough. My suspicion is that very few bikes get ridden 10,000 miles. They either get ridden occasionally or replaced regularly. It is probably cheaper to give lifetime guarantees and quote fantasy figures for fatigue cycles, rather than engineer light aluminium frames that do last a lifetime Every road bike I have/had has or will be ridden 10000 miles/16000 km. Do you think that you are average, representative of the average? Also, do your aluminium bike frames break, fatigue cracks close to the bottom bracket, have I just been unlucky? |
#39
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Weights of my bikes
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:06 +1000, James
wrote: On 18/5/21 11:38 pm, Lou Holtman wrote: Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 04:53:45 UTC+2 schreef James: On 18/5/21 10:22 am, jbeattie wrote: BTW, your garage operating room is again impressive. I wouldn't know how to work in such a clean, well organized and lighted space. It would be disorienting. I'm acclimated to the dim, industrial revolution feel of my garage and basement shop. That's a garage? I thought it was Lou's kitchen! -- JS At the moment it is the repair shop of my dryer: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DfgedkfM7euUvgo28 Lou, waiting for parts. Our dryer looks remarkably less complicated. https://www.hillshome.com.au/our-pro...t-clothesline/ Ah, but in the U.S. it is against the law to sun dry your washing in many places. There are even groups dedicated to working toward laws that ensure your right to hang your laundry on a "cloths line". https://thegoodhuman.com/line-drying-clothes-illegal/ -- Cheers, John B. |
#40
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Weights of my bikes
Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 18 mei 2021 om 17:05:44 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie: With off the shelf parts 2014 and a heavy saddle: https://photos.app.goo.gl/N8frpRqH5fuj2tuA6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/PMxriEU7B8VVnMieA Still my climbing bike, According to those here you are taking your life in your hands with a fatigue prone titanium bike that weighs in under 15 lbs. Who said that? Moreover, Lou's Ti Moots gravel bike probably comes in closer to 18lbs, assuming he has some reasonably fat tires on it. His 15lb bike is a Canyon CF road bike. What people said is NOT that modern Ti is failure prone but that it is not immune from failure as you said. Like any other material, it can fail for a number of reasons -- and failures can occur after infancy. I do not know where Ti stands in terms of failure rate compared to aluminum, steel and CF, but I would assume well made Ti frames have a lower failure rate than steel or aluminum because of the character of the metals and their fatigue limits. Ti is a nice material, and I don't think anyone disputes that here. My Ti Moots is 9.6 kg with 37 mm gravel tires and 9.3 kg with 32 mm Continental GP 5000 road tires. My Aeroad is 7.25 kg. All weights including pedals and 2 bottle cages. We all applaud how well you take care of your bicycles. Just don't be mislead buying a new "9 kg" rated Miele washing machine for it. They don't make them like they used to any more. It's like they had a Brussels-Cupertino joint committee dumb down everything to idiot toddler playground safety level, get rid of any remaining manual flight controls, and worst, of real metal doors. |
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