Shimano electronic shifting

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:13:29 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

And what can be made to
appear, without ever telling a lie, is that racers accept Shimano
automatic shifting, and therefore Joe Fairweather Sunday cruiser
should aspire to it, at a premium price, of course.

Shimano electric Dura-Ace is not automatic shifting.

There is no automatic shifting for racers, so what are you talking
about?

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:13:29 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

Your
question has the naive ring of someone who has never set foot in the
marketing department in his life.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

In article
,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Jan 22, 10:47*pm, "ZBicyclist" wrote:


I can imagine triathletes and time trial guys someday linking this
up with heartrate monitors (etc.) and getting a bit of an advantage.
Sometimes you only need a bit.

And then I can imagine Buycycling magazine's reviews being uniformly
glowing, and saying "You NEED this to stay with the group on your next
training ride."

(Actually, they may omit 'training,' because according to Buycycling,
all rides except the European classics should be training rides.)

Then I can imagine some posters here claiming everybody should be
using it, because it's dangerous to move your fingers too far to
shift.

Eventually, anyone who has a shifter operated by a cable will be
called a Fred. (Although some will try to delay the inevitable by
using graphite fiber derailleur cables, which they'll praise for their
vibration damping.)

Hey Fred! Where are your salad tongs? Yuck, yuck.

--
Michael Press

On Jan 24, 8:15*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jan 22, 10:47*pm, "ZBicyclist" wrote:



I can imagine triathletes and time trial guys someday linking this
up with heartrate monitors (etc.) and getting a bit of an advantage.
Sometimes you only need a bit.

And then I can imagine Buycycling magazine's reviews being uniformly
glowing, and saying "You NEED this to stay with the group on your next
training ride."

(Actually, they may omit 'training,' because according to Buycycling,
all rides except the European classics should be training rides.)

Then I can imagine some posters here claiming everybody should be
using it, because it's dangerous to move your fingers too far to
shift.

Eventually, anyone who has a shifter operated by a cable will be
called a Fred. *(Although some will try to delay the inevitable by
using graphite fiber derailleur cables, which they'll praise for their
vibration damping.)

Actually, if everyone shifts to electronic, it will create a huge
retro cable market for Grant Pederson. Not only will he sell high-end
steel cables, he'll also create a market for cat-gut cables, cotton
twill cables, left hand twist cables, right hand twist cables, cables
with lugs, re-cycled milk-jug cables -- you name it. It will be like
the rebirth of the LP. We'll have a cable golden era all over again!
-- Jay Beattie.

On Jan 25, 12:05*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:13:29 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute

wrote:
Your
question has the naive ring of someone who has never set foot in the
marketing department in his life.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

In your case morality is irrelevant. The mentally incapacitated are
held by law not to be able to distinguish between good and evil.

On Jan 25, 12:05*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:13:29 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute

wrote:
And what can be made to
appear, without ever telling a lie, is that racers accept Shimano
automatic shifting, and therefore Joe Fairweather Sunday cruiser
should aspire to it, at a premium price, of course.

Shimano electric Dura-Ace is not automatic shifting.

There is no automatic shifting for racers, so what are you talking
about?

It is a demonstration of why the people in the marketing department
are paid so much more than you will ever earn, Tomlinson. They aren't
stupid; you are.

I told you I don't think electric Dura-Ace is automatic shifting in
the first line of my reply, which you cut about deceitfully to give
you the above kindergarten debating point. Here is the original
exchange:

-----
On Jan 24, 2:26 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:43:12 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:
If Shimano cannot make a go of
automatics even after marketing it the normal way, by first making it
acceptable to the iconic racers, I think we will be able to conclude
there is no market.
I haven't been following this thread, so I have to ask: do you believe
Shimano's electronic shifting for racers has anything to do with
automatic shifting?


Not at all, is the straight-up answer. But it isn't that simple. Your
question has the naive ring of someone who has never set foot in the
marketing department in his life. What has the fact that
electronically assisted shifting for racers is a grossly cut-down
version of the fully automatic version in the Cyber Nexus groupset to
do with anything, *anything at all*? It is an utterly irrelevant
fact.
What matters is what can be made to appear. And what can be made to
appear, without ever telling a lie, is that racers accept Shimano
automatic shifting, and therefore Joe Fairweather Sunday cruiser
should aspire to it, at a premium price, of course. I'm sure you,
John
Forrest Tomlinson, can give us several examples of where Shimano and
others made gear desirable through having it accepted by racers, only
to "trickle down" to the dreamers in the marketplace something so
watered down as to be just barely recognizable, or with the same or a
similar name but no other substantive similarity. In this case, if
the
"automatic" shifting takes off with the racers, Shimano will just
reverse the process and give the punters out there in dreamland
something *more*, because the development cost of full auto is
already
amortized, and because someone has already decided that the huge
market which doesn't yet cycle, will, if only fully automatic bicycle
gearboxes can be brought to their attention. There's a bonanza
waiting
for someone to harvest...
Andre Jute
Household brand names created from scratch
________

It is once more clear why everyone considers you lying scum, John
Forrest Tomlinson.

Andre Jute
And we let fools like Tomlinson breed?

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:44:56 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Jan 25, 12:05*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:13:29 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute

wrote:
Your
question has the naive ring of someone who has never set foot in the
marketing department in his life.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

In your case morality is irrelevant. The mentally incapacitated are
held by law not to be able to distinguish between good and evil.

It's strange that you criticize me for not "setting foot in a
marketing deparment", which I presume is criticism of my life
experience, and then turnt that into criticism of my ability.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:53:10 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

I told you I don't think electric Dura-Ace is automatic shifting in
the first line of my reply, which you cut about deceitfully to give
you the above kindergarten debating point. Here is the original
exchange:

Here's what you wrote in response to my question of if you thought
Shimano electronic shifting is automatic shifting - appears to have
internal contradictions between the first and fourth sentences.

"Not at all, is the straight-up answer. But it isn't that simple. Your
question has the naive ring of someone who has never set foot in the
marketing department in his life. What has the fact that
electronically assisted shifting for racers is a grossly cut-down
version of the fully automatic version in the Cyber Nexus groupset to
do with anything, *anything at all*?"

You clearly know how to write a lot of words. Do you know how to
write clearly? It doesn't appear so.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:28:06 -0800 (PST), Jay Beattie
wrote:


Actually, if everyone shifts to electronic, it will create a huge
retro cable market for Grant Pederson. Not only will he sell high-end
steel cables, he'll also create a market for cat-gut cables . . .

[snip]

Dear Jay,

It would be hard to create a cat-gut brake-cord market that's over a
century old . . .

"Fit on the saddle, and your velocipede is complete, with the
exception of the brake, which is hardly necessary; but, if desired, it
can be screwed beneath the shaft, so as to act on the hind wheel, as
shown in fig. 2. A piece of catgut, or even sash-cord, if knotted to
the steering-handle and passed through a gimlet-hole in the shaft and
attached to the end of the brake, will furnish sufficient power on the
steering-handle being turned round."

"Routledge's Every Boy's Annual," Edmund Routledge pub., 1870, p.479
http://books.google.com/books?id=AD0...=toc#PPA479,M1

The passage was taken, word for word, from "Velocipedes, Bicycles, &
Tricycles," by "Velox", 1860, p. 103-4, also published by Routledge:

http://books.google.com/books?id=NJU...page#PPA104,M1

The 1877 Coventry Machinists' Co. parts list shows brake cord,
ordinary, at 4 pennies, while the far superior copper-covered gut
brake cord is 2 shillings:
http://i44.tinypic.com/9h2cmd.jpg

Brakes may be "hardly necessary," but they're no place to
economize--insist on catgut brake cords! Leave sash cords on your
windows.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
"ZBicyclist" writes:
Papa Tom wrote:
Why????
Because. Shimano has a bunch of engineers sitting around trying out
what might be cool stuff. Sometimes it makes it into market.

Maybe they'll make a fishing reel that hydraulically,
pneumatically or explosively casts your rig for you.
A li'l fulminate of whatever, or picric acid, or sodium
azide, & yer off 'n runnin'. The noise might scare the
fish away, though.

No, the explosives go IN the water when one fishes.

Maybe Shimano will come up with something for that, too.
I know one thing, though: Chrysler won't. Heh.


cheers,
Tom

--
Jesus Chrysler Drives a Dodge
-- one of my fave tunes by The Screaming Blue Messiahs