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  #71  
Old November 9th 19, 11:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Basso Loto [OT]

On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 11:40:15 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-07 14:49, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 07:04:13 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-06 20:24, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 16:46:19 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-06 15:17, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 06:57:44 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-05 18:38, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:05:03 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 08:35, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It
seemed to have a perfect ride. However, since I took it
apart to refinish it I got the Lemond and between the
ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0 and the ride of the Lemond
Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will have to test it
again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder
coaters and expect them to get around to it around the
end of next week. I was not enthused about the original
colors of the Loto - Yellow and Blue with a red
highlight. So I'm having it a solid "transparent blue"
which they had a sample of when I was there. A hot rodder
was having his rims coated. I had been planning on Candy
Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked
a little cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and
the like to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the
Trump economy. They had a pickup truck there they were
about to put in the oven while I was there. It would cook
to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a
set of Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with
clear. I learned from the last try on the Pinarello and
will use many very light coats instead of a few heavy.
And then have the bottom bracket threads cleaned and the
Campy headset that was in it re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep
carbon wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and
on it took me three days to get that thing properly
centered and true when I could build an aluminum wheel in
a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your
rides. I am the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road
bike have lots of scrapes and are generally caked in
copious amounts of dried mud. Add in a few grease streaks
and some vegetation mashed deep into the works here and
there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting but then
again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in
IPA, Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud?
OK...oh wait are you not the one who cleans his chain with
inter dental brushes? That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain
than other mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other
cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out
of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them
link-by-link"?


I regularly talk with other MTB riders at brewpubs. Most said they
don't even get 1000mi out of a chain.

What kind of chain are they using? 8/9/10/11 speed? What are you
using? And what does flossing between the links do to clean out the
pin-bushing interface? You would probably do better with conventional
cleaning and lubrication.


Most are 10-speed, rarely 9-speed. KMC seems to be the main brand and
that is what I also use. Doesn't matter, the chains are similar.

It's not flossing but I am (re-) using these:

https://www.costco.com/gum-soft-pick...100526764.html

What it does is remove oily and grimy clumps and "plaque" from the area
where the rollers tough the links. Otherwise the new lube won't go in
there well. Yes, a chain wash is better but that requires liquids,
drying, and is environmentally questionalbe IMO because you have to dump
the resulting oily liquid somewhere. And don't do that in the sink or
the open space.



I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical
stuff, very regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components,
bearings, lights et cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked
on it or not is only a cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may
cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential
thieves generally don't want that one. They go for another
bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy
versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works
Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which
gets stolen first?


Of course I mean similar bikes. Di2 is an invitation "Steal me,
steal me!". Most thieves around here are after a quick buck to feed
their drug habits. A nice shiny name brand bike will instantly get
them their $30 or whatever at the cladestine chop shop, a filthy
one won't.

It's rather obvious and I had talked at length with law
enforcement experts about such things. They said the same thing
about homes. A modest abode has a lower chance of being broken into
versus a manicured mansion.

Law enforcement officers know about the relative number of muddy
versus non-muddy bikes that get stolen. Incroyable. I seems to me
like one would have to do A/B testing to prove that point.


They do know about the chance of ugly versus non-ugly items being
stolen. These were case investigors, not patrol officers. But even those
know if seasoned enough.

The key is what I had mentioned: How marketable is a stolen item and how
quickly can it be turned into drug money? The shiny bike gets them money
fast, the ugly one gets them nothing. So ...

Aren't you the guy with the wood burning heat? Just toss the oily
liquid on the wood pile. After all wood smoke contains In addition to
particle pollution, several toxic harmful air pollutants including:
benzene,
formaldehyde,
acrolein, and
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).

With all that what's a little extra?


We have one of those super-clean certified stoves that emits only a gram
of particulate matter per hour and no smoke. In fact, once when I was
cleaning the pellet stove vent I burned my arm while placing tools on
the chimney. I had forgotten that the wood stove was still going on the
other flue. The was absolutely no smell and I was standing right next to
the storm cap.

Well, there you go. Just dump the used cleaning fluid in the stove and
it will be magically destroyed with no harm to the atmosphere.


That will result in an impressive plume of smoke and probably a stench
in the neighborhood. Seems you never operated a wood stove.


Quite the contrary, we heated our house, my grand parents heated their
house, our neighbors heated their houses, with wood. My maternal grand
mother even cooked on a wood stove when I was a little chap.

But you were bragging about a stove that "burned clean" so I assumed
that it actually did burn clean, and now you are telling me that it
doesn't burn clean?



If you dump a cold oily substance into it there will be a substantial
puff of unhealthy smoke. If you used a wood stove you should know that.


Well, I was using, or at least people around me were using, a wood
stove when I was a youngster. My grandfather heated his house with
wood stoves until I was in my teens, so yes, I would say that I am
familiar with wood stoves.

But you bragged about having a clean stove that doesn't smoke. and now
you say that it does smoke? By the way, when I was living in a house
trailer in the depths of a Maine winter I heated the place with a
kerosene stove... no visible smoke.

--
cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #72  
Old November 9th 19, 11:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Basso Loto [OT]

On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 11:44:56 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-07 19:29, news18 wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 07:04:13 -0800, Joerg wrote:


That will result in an impressive plume of smoke and probably a stench
in the neighborhood. Seems you never operated a wood stove.


That stench here comes from the kerosenes heaters.


Oil heating was very popular in Germany where I lived earlier. However,
even in the 60's the inspector who was also the (required) chimney sweep
measured the soot content on a regular basis. The limits became ever
more strict and if your installation couldn't get below the limit it was
de-certified for further use until repaired or replaced.


The last house my folks owned, probably from about 1939 until they
died in the mid 1990's was heated first by wood and later by fuel oil
and to the best of my recollection never had the chimneys cleaned. and
never had a chimney fire either :-)

In fact I can't remember any house having it's chimney cleaned so it
must not have been a common happening.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #73  
Old November 10th 19, 01:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Basso Loto

On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 9:44:19 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0 and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid "transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very light coats instead of a few heavy.. And then have the bottom bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.


Because of President Trump's economy the powder coater has more work than he knows what to do with. So instead of two weeks to get my Basso powder coated it took 6 weeks. Almost the entire workforce there are Hispanics and a lot of them can't speak English but where in the hell would he get the labor he needs if it wasn't for them?

Anyway, the "Transparent Blue" looks even better than I thought it would. If I didn't need to clear coat the frame to seal the decals on you wouldn't be able to tell the difference because this is the smoothest powder coat job I've ever seen. I assume that it is the powder itself that sets this smoothly.

I obtained the decals from www.wani.co.uk and these too are so much better than the others I have used I can't give this guy enough credit. Put on the frame, it looks like it's been painted on. There are no bumps in-between the powder coat and the decals and they stuck on perfectly though you have to be careful pealing the paper cover off of the decal.

No one presently makes the block lettered "Loto" decal yet so I asked this guy to make them up for me. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

The reconditioning is coming along more slowly than I'd hoped but it is making progress. Looking at it now impresses me and knowing that since it is powder coated that it will last forever and will be very difficult to scratch also means that I won't have to worry about it again for the remainder of my life.

I ordered some aluminum bars that have an aero shape so that the finished product ought to be interesting. I tripped over some like-new 10 speed Campy levers on eBay and I will probably put those on the Basso.

I am somewhat ambiguous about whether to put the Campy Scirraco wheels on or the Chinese 50 mm carbon clinchers. The carbon clinchers have very highly tensioned aero spokes and those wheels handle better in gusting side winds than a flat rimmed wheel. This is why I immediately thought of tightening the spokes on the tubeless carbon aero rims even after Robby said that they were correctly tensioned.

Robby was one of the team mechanics on 7-11 team and specialized in wheel building. But that was then and this is now. It is so fricking difficult to build an aero carbon rim wheel that I doubt that he's even bothered to try. In the end I had three days into building a single wheel and it is still about 0.020" out of round. But so are the clinchers so I won't worry about it.
  #74  
Old November 11th 19, 03:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Basso Loto [OT]

On 2019-11-09 14:57, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 11:44:56 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-07 19:29, news18 wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 07:04:13 -0800, Joerg wrote:


That will result in an impressive plume of smoke and probably a stench
in the neighborhood. Seems you never operated a wood stove.

That stench here comes from the kerosenes heaters.


Oil heating was very popular in Germany where I lived earlier. However,
even in the 60's the inspector who was also the (required) chimney sweep
measured the soot content on a regular basis. The limits became ever
more strict and if your installation couldn't get below the limit it was
de-certified for further use until repaired or replaced.


The last house my folks owned, probably from about 1939 until they
died in the mid 1990's was heated first by wood and later by fuel oil
and to the best of my recollection never had the chimneys cleaned. and
never had a chimney fire either :-)


A neighbor had it happen. Twice. Thing is, if you have the stereo going
you may not hear it. A driver coming down a hill 1/4 mile away raced
there, told them and called the fire department. That can easily burn
down a house and maybe some others along with it.


In fact I can't remember any house having it's chimney cleaned so it
must not have been a common happening.



That is like with safety belts, grandpa's car didn't have them and he
lived well into his 90's. Yet we won't drive without.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #75  
Old November 12th 19, 05:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Basso Loto [OT]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 06:58:31 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-09 14:57, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 11:44:56 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-07 19:29, news18 wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 07:04:13 -0800, Joerg wrote:


That will result in an impressive plume of smoke and probably a stench
in the neighborhood. Seems you never operated a wood stove.

That stench here comes from the kerosenes heaters.


Oil heating was very popular in Germany where I lived earlier. However,
even in the 60's the inspector who was also the (required) chimney sweep
measured the soot content on a regular basis. The limits became ever
more strict and if your installation couldn't get below the limit it was
de-certified for further use until repaired or replaced.


The last house my folks owned, probably from about 1939 until they
died in the mid 1990's was heated first by wood and later by fuel oil
and to the best of my recollection never had the chimneys cleaned. and
never had a chimney fire either :-)


A neighbor had it happen. Twice. Thing is, if you have the stereo going
you may not hear it. A driver coming down a hill 1/4 mile away raced
there, told them and called the fire department. That can easily burn
down a house and maybe some others along with it.


In fact I can't remember any house having it's chimney cleaned so it
must not have been a common happening.



That is like with safety belts, grandpa's car didn't have them and he
lived well into his 90's. Yet we won't drive without.


I'm not saying that they don't happen, just that I never saw it happen
and we lived in one neighborhood and my grandparents lived about a
mile away and I think that if a chimney fire had happened in either
neighborhood it would have been BIG NEWS all up an down the street so
I think I would have heard about it.

But I would winder about why a chimney fire occurred twice within a
reasonable length of time.
Not setting their stove correctly, i.e., burning too rich a mixture
and generating too much "soot"?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #76  
Old November 12th 19, 05:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default Basso Loto [OT]

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:29:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

But I would winder about why a chimney fire occurred twice within a
reasonable length of time.
Not setting their stove correctly, i.e., burning too rich a mixture
and generating too much "soot"?


Hooking a stove into a chimney designed for a fireplace will do it.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
  #77  
Old November 12th 19, 06:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Basso Loto [OT]

On 11/11/2019 11:50 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:29:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

But I would winder about why a chimney fire occurred twice within a
reasonable length of time.
Not setting their stove correctly, i.e., burning too rich a mixture
and generating too much "soot"?


Hooking a stove into a chimney designed for a fireplace will do it.


I agree. We used our fireplace fairly heavily for probably 20 winters,
then less frequently for another 12 or so. We then had the chimney
inspected. We were told it was fine, no cleaning necessary.

Wood stove exhaust is supposedly a different story. IIRC, the lower air
flow allows the products of combustion to condense on the relatively
cold chimney lining.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #78  
Old November 12th 19, 07:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Basso Loto [OT]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 23:50:30 -0500, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:29:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

But I would winder about why a chimney fire occurred twice within a
reasonable length of time.
Not setting their stove correctly, i.e., burning too rich a mixture
and generating too much "soot"?


Hooking a stove into a chimney designed for a fireplace will do it.


Well, yes. But I was being polite and assuming that they were bright
enough not to do that :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #79  
Old November 12th 19, 04:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Basso Loto [OT]

On 2019-11-11 20:29, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 06:58:31 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-09 14:57, John B. wrote:


[...]

In fact I can't remember any house having it's chimney cleaned so it
must not have been a common happening.



That is like with safety belts, grandpa's car didn't have them and he
lived well into his 90's. Yet we won't drive without.


I'm not saying that they don't happen, just that I never saw it happen
and we lived in one neighborhood and my grandparents lived about a
mile away and I think that if a chimney fire had happened in either
neighborhood it would have been BIG NEWS all up an down the street so
I think I would have heard about it.

But I would winder about why a chimney fire occurred twice within a
reasonable length of time.
Not setting their stove correctly, i.e., burning too rich a mixture
and generating too much "soot"?



The usual, making a fire in the stove and dampering it down too much.
That results in a hardcore creosote layer. They had smoke crawling out
of the chimney all the time. Even after those fires they did not learn.
Most people do not learn this, for whatever reason. Problem is that the
incompetence on the part of people with wood stoves also results in a
lot of wood burning bans that hit people who are competent in that domain.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #80  
Old November 12th 19, 04:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Basso Loto [OT]

On Tuesday, 12 November 2019 10:03:28 UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-11 20:29, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 06:58:31 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-09 14:57, John B. wrote:


[...]

In fact I can't remember any house having it's chimney cleaned so it
must not have been a common happening.


That is like with safety belts, grandpa's car didn't have them and he
lived well into his 90's. Yet we won't drive without.


I'm not saying that they don't happen, just that I never saw it happen
and we lived in one neighborhood and my grandparents lived about a
mile away and I think that if a chimney fire had happened in either
neighborhood it would have been BIG NEWS all up an down the street so
I think I would have heard about it.

But I would winder about why a chimney fire occurred twice within a
reasonable length of time.
Not setting their stove correctly, i.e., burning too rich a mixture
and generating too much "soot"?



The usual, making a fire in the stove and dampering it down too much.
That results in a hardcore creosote layer. They had smoke crawling out
of the chimney all the time. Even after those fires they did not learn.
Most people do not learn this, for whatever reason. Problem is that the
incompetence on the part of people with wood stoves also results in a
lot of wood burning bans that hit people who are competent in that domain..

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


There are a lot of bans in different areas or activities and those bans too resulted from the actions of a few incompetent people. Some areas ban mountain biking because MTB riders lock up a wheel which tears up a strip of ground which then leads to accelerated erosion. Or those incompetent/inconsiderate riders ride into off-limits areas which then results in a broader ban that affects all MTB riders in that area.

Cheers
 




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