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Protecting yourself



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 6th 19, 02:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,747
Default Protecting yourself

Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 06:32:57 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Somewhere on the net a guy wrote that "back in the day" a driver had a
wheel, a gear shift and three pedals and one switch on the floor and
had to be at least minimally alert to handle all this. Now with cruise
control the drive has only the wheel and this can spend more time on
other things like day-dreaming, sleeping or messing about with a hand
phone.

I wonder whether he may not have been correct?


Does that decode into; I wonder whether he may have been incorrect?

Something else to wonder about is why public safety, transportation
services, ham radio, CB, and other 2way radio users have been driving
around talking on their radios for about a century without much of a
problem. I didn't see any mention of distracted driving until the
advent of cell phones (and LCD touch screens). So, what's the
difference between cell phones and 2way radio?

Cell phones are full duplex while mobile radios are half duplex. Full
duplex means the one talk and hear at the same time. Half duplex
means the radio can transmit or receive but not both at the same time.
The human brain can multitask two tasks at the same time with minimal
confusion (not zero confusion). It can deal with operating the
vehicle while listening to the radio. Or, it can deal with operating
the vehicle while talking on the radio. However, it cannot deal with
operating the vehicle while talking and listening at the same time.
Three tasks are too much to handle.

To fix the problem, switch the cell phone from full duplex to half
duplex and require the driver to depress a PTT (push to talk) switch
while talking. This has the added bonus of giving the driver a rest
while he listens to whatever the other party is saying, much like the
common AM/FM/CD/USB player. In effect, make the car kit cell phone
operate like a 2way radio and it might reduce distracted driving
accidents. It won't reduce them to zero, but it will be a big help.


Most of the drivers I see weaving on the roads today are not *talking*
on their phones at all. They're texting, or maybe surfing the web.
Ads
  #22  
Old June 6th 19, 02:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Protecting yourself

On 6/5/2019 9:19 PM, AK wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 8:17:05 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/5/2019 1:47 AM, Andy wrote:
I have thought about carrying a short range cell phone jammer while biking.

I have given it careful thought. But when traveling as a passenger I increasingly see drivers drifting over into other lanes.

They are irresponsible idiots who are a danger to everyone.

Andy


Good luck with that.
FCC has an unkindly view of pirate transmitters.



Well FCC is doing a poor job of regulating telemarketers. I should be safe.



How many Congressmen have you rented lately?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #23  
Old June 6th 19, 02:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Protecting yourself

On 6/5/2019 11:30 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 6:33:06 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 08:16:55 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/5/2019 1:47 AM, Andy wrote:
I have thought about carrying a short range cell phone jammer while biking.

I have given it careful thought. But when traveling as a passenger I increasingly see drivers drifting over into other lanes.

They are irresponsible idiots who are a danger to everyone.


Good luck with that.
FCC has an unkindly view of pirate transmitters.


Somewhere on the net a guy wrote that "back in the day" a driver had a
wheel, a gear shift and three pedals and one switch on the floor and
had to be at least minimally alert to handle all this. Now with cruise
control the drive has only the wheel and this can spend more time on
other things like day-dreaming, sleeping or messing about with a hand
phone.

I wonder whether he may not have been correct?



"one switch on the floor" Do you mean the older cars that had the light dimmer on the floor as a silver button sticking up and you dimmed or flashed the lights by stepping on it? As a kid I vaguely remember driving one of those new modern fancy cars that had the light dimmer by moving the turn signal back and forward. Dim the lights with your hands!!!!!!


My cars all have the light switch on the floor. I thought Mr
Slocumb meant the starter button. I haven't had a car with
that in a very long time.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #24  
Old June 6th 19, 02:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Posts: 401
Default Protecting yourself

On 06/06/2019 8:54 a.m., Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 06.06.2019 um 14:14 schrieb Duane:

You can listen or talk on a radio without looking at it.Â* Same with a
phone.Â*Â* Especially if you have some hands free device as most cars
do now.
But you can’t text without looking at it.


Well actually you can send text by voice using Siri on iPhone and
there's probably some app that reads it.


Siri can do that as well
https://www.dummies.com/consumer-ele...r-texts-aloud/
(and with the appropriate in-car integration, without needing to touch
the home button).

I have sat in a car as a passenger when the driver was texted by his
wife and sent an answer via Siri.Â* Needed a few repetitions to get the
right text but still simpler than ringing her to pass the estimated
arrival time.


It was the syntax for Siri to send the text. I had to say "send a
message to ... as Siri didn't understand "text ..."
  #25  
Old June 6th 19, 03:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Protecting yourself

On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:03:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

But you can’t text without looking at it.


Notice that I didn't mention texting and that my suggestion would only
solve part of the mobile phone distraction problem.

Smartphones already have a built in GPS and accelerometer which can
detect if the phone is moving or stopped. It would be easy to disable
texting if the phone is moving. However, that would also prevent
texting while moving public transport (bus, train, airplane), as well
as prevent texting by passengers. So, there has to be a way to
determine if the phone is in the drivers seat. I could conjure
various schemes to make this work in new automobiles, but retrofitting
older passenger and commercial vehicles would be cost prohibitive. I'm
also undecided how to handle incoming texts, which will be a
distraction as the driver tries to read the message on the screen.
Displaying incoming texts could be delayed until the phone has stopped
moving, which might work for some applications.

The problem can also be handled with a little social engineering.
Simply raise the price of texting while moving. Since the phone can
detect if it's moving, the service provider can detect if the message
was sent while moving. Sending texts while stationary will be billed
at the usual low rate. Sending texts while moving gets billed and
possibly taxes at an exorbitant rate. I'm sure the service providers
will instantly approve of any idea that offers additional revenue.
Incoming texts would be delayed until the phone has stopped moving.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #26  
Old June 6th 19, 03:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Posts: 401
Default Protecting yourself

On 06/06/2019 10:11 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:03:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

But you can’t text without looking at it.


Notice that I didn't mention texting and that my suggestion would only
solve part of the mobile phone distraction problem.

Smartphones already have a built in GPS and accelerometer which can
detect if the phone is moving or stopped. It would be easy to disable
texting if the phone is moving. However, that would also prevent
texting while moving public transport (bus, train, airplane), as well
as prevent texting by passengers. So, there has to be a way to
determine if the phone is in the drivers seat. I could conjure
various schemes to make this work in new automobiles, but retrofitting
older passenger and commercial vehicles would be cost prohibitive. I'm
also undecided how to handle incoming texts, which will be a
distraction as the driver tries to read the message on the screen.
Displaying incoming texts could be delayed until the phone has stopped
moving, which might work for some applications.


Actually, at least with iPhones, you can set it to do not disturb mode
when you're driving. It can detect if you're connected to your car's
blue tooth and sends an auto reply to texts when that's the case. No
problem on public transit etc. This doesn't stop idiots from texting
anyway.

The problem can also be handled with a little social engineering.
Simply raise the price of texting while moving. Since the phone can
detect if it's moving, the service provider can detect if the message
was sent while moving. Sending texts while stationary will be billed
at the usual low rate. Sending texts while moving gets billed and
possibly taxes at an exorbitant rate. I'm sure the service providers
will instantly approve of any idea that offers additional revenue.
Incoming texts would be delayed until the phone has stopped moving.


License suspension and steep fines doesn't seem to be a deterrent so I'm
not sure about text fees helping things.
  #27  
Old June 6th 19, 03:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 267
Default Protecting yourself

Am 06.06.2019 um 16:11 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:03:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

But you can’t text without looking at it.


The problem can also be handled with a little social engineering.
Simply raise the price of texting while moving.


Does anybody without a text flat-rate still use texting these days? In
Germany, the costs of texts have driven the young generation to whatsapp
(my son sends hundreds of whatsapps per day and has sent less than 10
texts in his life, to mum who didn't use mobile internet until recently).
  #28  
Old June 6th 19, 04:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Protecting yourself

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 10:11:21 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:03:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

But you can’t text without looking at it.


Notice that I didn't mention texting and that my suggestion would only
solve part of the mobile phone distraction problem.

Smartphones already have a built in GPS and accelerometer which can
detect if the phone is moving or stopped. It would be easy to disable
texting if the phone is moving. However, that would also prevent
texting while moving public transport (bus, train, airplane), as well
as prevent texting by passengers. So, there has to be a way to
determine if the phone is in the drivers seat. I could conjure
various schemes to make this work in new automobiles, but retrofitting
older passenger and commercial vehicles would be cost prohibitive. I'm
also undecided how to handle incoming texts, which will be a
distraction as the driver tries to read the message on the screen.
Displaying incoming texts could be delayed until the phone has stopped
moving, which might work for some applications.

The problem can also be handled with a little social engineering.
Simply raise the price of texting while moving. Since the phone can
detect if it's moving, the service provider can detect if the message
was sent while moving. Sending texts while stationary will be billed
at the usual low rate. Sending texts while moving gets billed and
possibly taxes at an exorbitant rate. I'm sure the service providers
will instantly approve of any idea that offers additional revenue.
Incoming texts would be delayed until the phone has stopped moving.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


What is the driver is using a voice to text program whilst driving?

Cheers
  #29  
Old June 6th 19, 05:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Protecting yourself

On 6/6/2019 8:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 06.06.2019 um 14:14 schrieb Duane:

You can listen or talk on a radio without looking at it.Â* Same with a
phone.Â*Â* Especially if you have some hands free device as most cars
do now.
But you can’t text without looking at it.


Well actually you can send text by voice using Siri on iPhone and
there's probably some app that reads it.


Siri can do that as well
https://www.dummies.com/consumer-ele...r-texts-aloud/
(and with the appropriate in-car integration, without needing to touch
the home button).

I have sat in a car as a passenger when the driver was texted by his
wife and sent an answer via Siri.Â* Needed a few repetitions to get the
right text but still simpler than ringing her to pass the estimated
arrival time.


And it's now so important to tell one's arrival time?

I can accept it may be important in some few instances- perhaps "I'll be
there before the baby is born!"

But from certain friends, I now get texts saying "We're almost there,
see you in five minutes." That's over-communication. We shouldn't need
minute by minute reports.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old June 6th 19, 05:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Protecting yourself

On 6/6/2019 1:43 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 19:24:48 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 1:28:42 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 23:47:42 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

I have thought about carrying a short range cell
phone jammer while biking.

I guess you know that cell phone jammers are illegal.
https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement

I have given it careful thought.

Think some more.

But when traveling as a
passenger I increasingly see drivers drifting over into other lanes.
They are irresponsible idiots who are a danger to everyone.

It won't work the way you expect. Jamming a cell phone will cause the
phone to disconnect unexpectedly. The driver will wonder what
happened to their call in progress and begin finger poking at the
screen trying to re-establish the call. That's not a great idea while
moving.

Prior to your jammer being turned on, the driver was minimally
distracted. After jamming, the driver became actively engaged in
operating the phone and has become seriously distracted. You may
think that full time jamming only prevents initiating or receiving
phone calls. That might be true if you were moving at the same speed
as the traffic. However, there will be many cars passing you on your
bicycle, in both directions, some of which might be engaged in a legal
hands free phone conversation. Your jammer will disconnect their call
in progress, cause them to finger poke at the screen, and probably
cause an accident while they are distracted.

Also, there are now so a substantial number of cellular bands in use
(and growing with every FCC auction). Unless you plan to carry a
rather large box on your bicycle, it is unlikely that you can
efficiently jam all of them. At best, a simple jammer will take out
all the customers of one particular vendor, leaving the other vendors
bands unaffected.
http://www.gasiajammer.com/sale-8508330-new-all-in-one-16-channels-high-power-desktop-signal-jammer-70-meters-sheilding-range.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMOpxrs53YQ



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


Any phone use whether hands free or not is distracted driver. i.e. dangerous driver

If not every phone is knocked out, no problemo.

They may figure out that their phone only misbehaves when driving.

:-)

Fred


My guess is that the immediate result of someone's phone stopping
would be an immediate flurry of shaking the phone and feverously
pushing buttons to get the damned thing to work. Rather than cause the
driver to pay more attention to driving I suspect that it would have
exactly the opposite effect and he/she/it's attention would be wholly
on the phone.


The only way I see this happening would be if the phone did not go dead.
Instead, the phone would disable all apps but GPS and it would begin
yelling at the motorist "Stop using the phone. WATCH THE ROAD!" over and
over.

And that's going to be very difficult to achieve.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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