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  #21  
Old June 26th 19, 02:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:56:38 -0700 (PDT), pH wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 4:19:42 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
mail.com wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Both of my driving kids like manual trannies. Older daughter had a 6-speed Veloraster (as I call it) and now same in a Mustang.
Son loves his 5sp Integra but it needs one more gear.

They both want to drive the family Morris Minor, which is where they got all there manual transmission exposure.

I think I'll let them,now, but they are in for a big surprise, the Morris being so much more massively powerful than what they're used to.

pH


"massively powerful"? With a 918cc side valve engine? Or do you have
the Mark II with the 803 cc 30 HP Engine? Or maybe a late model Mark
V with a thundering great 1,098 cc 48 bhp power plant?
--
cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #22  
Old June 26th 19, 02:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:59:05 -0700 (PDT), pH wrote:

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 4:56:40 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 4:19:42 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
mail.com wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Both of my driving kids like manual trannies. Older daughter had a 6-speed Veloraster (as I call it) and now same in a Mustang.
Son loves his 5sp Integra but it needs one more gear.

They both want to drive the family Morris Minor, which is where they got all there manual transmission exposure.

I think I'll let them,now, but they are in for a big surprise, the Morris being so much more massively powerful than what they're used to.


...I can't believe I wrote "there"...ouch!


pH


As Mark Twain once said "Anyone who can only think of one way to spell
a word obviously lacks imagination." :-)

--
cheers,

John B.

  #23  
Old June 26th 19, 02:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,041
Default BB standard

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.


Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree" shifting. And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage. It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a manual? I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven one. USA.
  #24  
Old June 26th 19, 02:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,041
Default BB standard

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 8:49:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree" shifting. And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage. It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.


Forgot to mention that I think you had to move the lever about one foot or more for each shift. There was no quick shifting.


Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a manual? I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven one. USA.


  #25  
Old June 26th 19, 04:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default BB standard

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 6:49:54 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree" shifting. And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage. It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a manual? I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven one. USA.


A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #26  
Old June 26th 19, 04:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default BB standard

On 6/25/2019 8:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.


True. How can you shave, brush your hair, put on make-up, eat oatmeal,
text, and drink coffee if you have to keep using one hand to shift.

Still, if they ever want to rent a vehicle in Europe or Asia they should
know how to drive a stick, or be prepared to pay a big premium for an
automatic.
  #27  
Old June 26th 19, 05:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:49:52 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree" shifting. And a

clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage. It was fun to
drive that 30 plus years ago.

Gee, when I was growing up all cars had a three speed transmission and
a floor shift. I always assumed that was just the way that cars were
built :-)

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a manual? I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven one. USA.


Some years ago when I retired I tried to buy a Toyota 4 door sedan in
Bangkok with a manual transmission and no dealer even wanted to talk
about it. I did ask one dealer how the taxis were hand shift and he
told me that if I wanted to order in bulk, say 10 vehicles, he could
special order them with Japan with manual transmissions but otherwise
it was automatic all the way.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #28  
Old June 26th 19, 05:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:54:43 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/25/2019 8:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.


True. How can you shave, brush your hair, put on make-up, eat oatmeal,
text, and drink coffee if you have to keep using one hand to shift.

Still, if they ever want to rent a vehicle in Europe or Asia they should
know how to drive a stick, or be prepared to pay a big premium for an
automatic.


In Thailand I doubt that there is a auto dealer even offering hand
shift automobile any more. In fact I can't remember seeing a hand
shift in a privately owned auto in the last 20 years, or so.

In fact you can even buy a pickup truck with an automatic
transmission.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #29  
Old June 26th 19, 11:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default BB standard

On 6/25/2019 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:54:43 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/25/2019 8:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.


True. How can you shave, brush your hair, put on make-up, eat oatmeal,
text, and drink coffee if you have to keep using one hand to shift.

Still, if they ever want to rent a vehicle in Europe or Asia they should
know how to drive a stick, or be prepared to pay a big premium for an
automatic.


In Thailand I doubt that there is a auto dealer even offering hand
shift automobile any more. In fact I can't remember seeing a hand
shift in a privately owned auto in the last 20 years, or so.

In fact you can even buy a pickup truck with an automatic
transmission.


I was just in Europe and automatics were rare. A few Priuses, and a
handful of other cars but other than that all manuals.

I only rented a car in Thailand once, down in Phuket, a Suzuki, and at
that time there were no automatics available. It's what is now called a
Suzuki "Jimny." I see on the Suzuki Thailand page that it is available
in both manual and automatic. I guess that the Jimny doesn't really
qualify as a car, it's more of a mini-SUV. I looked at some of the other
vehicles on the Suzuki site and saw at least one car available with a
manual transmission, the Celerio. Of course whether or not you can
actually buy the manual versions is another story.
  #30  
Old June 26th 19, 12:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 03:06:40 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/25/2019 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:54:43 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/25/2019 8:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

True. How can you shave, brush your hair, put on make-up, eat oatmeal,
text, and drink coffee if you have to keep using one hand to shift.

Still, if they ever want to rent a vehicle in Europe or Asia they should
know how to drive a stick, or be prepared to pay a big premium for an
automatic.


In Thailand I doubt that there is a auto dealer even offering hand
shift automobile any more. In fact I can't remember seeing a hand
shift in a privately owned auto in the last 20 years, or so.

In fact you can even buy a pickup truck with an automatic
transmission.


I was just in Europe and automatics were rare. A few Priuses, and a
handful of other cars but other than that all manuals.

I only rented a car in Thailand once, down in Phuket, a Suzuki, and at
that time there were no automatics available. It's what is now called a
Suzuki "Jimny." I see on the Suzuki Thailand page that it is available
in both manual and automatic. I guess that the Jimny doesn't really
qualify as a car, it's more of a mini-SUV. I looked at some of the other
vehicles on the Suzuki site and saw at least one car available with a
manual transmission, the Celerio. Of course whether or not you can
actually buy the manual versions is another story.


I hadn't realized that Suzuki, here, was still selling cars with a
manual transmission. Certainly Toyota wasn't sold them from a number
of years, or perhaps it is more accurate to say that I couldn't find
a dealer that was selling them and that was at probably 15, or more,
or so years ago. I've bought my wife three Hondas over the past 20
years or so and the dealer that we patronize hadn't stocked a manual
shift in that period.

I did look at Suzuki's Thailand page and the 2019 Swift - I believe
the biggest seller in their line, or at least the one I see the most
on the roads - seems to have only an auto. I checked the specs of
the Celerio - the cheapest model in the Suzuki line and the cheaper
version does have a manual transmission. The two more expensive
version of the Celerio have automatic.

The question then is does anybody stock them :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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