A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

BB standard



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old June 28th 19, 01:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default BB standard

On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.


Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.


Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.


I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission
coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in
towing:
https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/
That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue.

Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking
torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at
cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think
there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have
towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times.

The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same
trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.)
None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac
Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it
was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with
old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing.

Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc.
even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just
went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't
seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #52  
Old June 28th 19, 02:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:13:32 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/26/2019 2:26 PM, wrote:

snip

Huh? We are catching up. For audi's, bmw and mercedes automatic transmission is the norm now. I made the switch 5 years ago after 35 years driving cars with a manual transmission. Driving a manual transmission now seems something from the stone age compared to my current 7 speed automatic transmission with extra flappy paddles for manual shifting (rarely use them) and you can change the settings while driving. I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.


I was just over in Germany two weeks ago (Berlin) and I made a point of
looking for AT cars, peering in the windows. There were a few luxury
cars with automatics, but the vast majority of vehicles (VW, Skoda,
Toyota, Opel, Ford, etc.) were manual.

I guess Honda has little presence in Germany and Austria, I saw only one
Honda, in a small town in Austria.


Interesting. In Thailand the largest selling personal motor vehicle is
the Toyota Hilux and the Isuzu D-max. Both are 4-door pickup trucks.
These two out sell every other type of 4 wheel personal vehicles and
run neck and neck in monthly/yearly sales.

The most popular sedan type vehicle seems to be the Toyota Vios which
has sales of about 1/2 the numbers of Toyotas Hilux pickup, and the
Honda City with sales slightly lower than the Vios.

Due to the tax structure in Thailand a pickup truck has historically
been cheaper than a sedan. And even today Isuzu D-max is TB 518,000
(US$16,807), on the road price, and the Honda City is TB 550,000. (US$
$17,845). Note the "on the road" price includes the purchase cost and
all charges including the registration fee, taxes, both sales and
registration, and usually insurance for the first year.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #53  
Old June 28th 19, 03:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:47:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.


Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.


Although some heavy trucks have auto transmissions today I think that
probably a manual shift would be more convenient for hauling a trailer
as if nothing else it will allow an appropriate gear to be selected
for going down steep hills. My Isuzu pickup has a "low range'
selection on it's auto transmission but that is too low except for
something like the Matterhorn :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #54  
Old June 28th 19, 03:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:12:39 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 9:59 AM, wrote:

snip

But they are all available with an AT but people,
- feel manly to stick shift,
- find AT too expensive,
- don't know what they are missing and think AT are still slow and sluggish.

If I simulate my manual shift from my driveway to the main road about 400 m away it would be:
r-1-2-3-2-Corner-3-4-2-speedbump-2-3-4-2-speedbump-3-4-2-corner to main road 15 manual shift in only 400 meter. Crazy. Automatic transmission: choose sport setting or leaving the default comfort setting R-D done!


Not disagreeing that an AT is a better choice. And for vehicles with a
good AT it'll end up costing less because it'll last longer than a
clutch replacement on an MT. But some vehicles have had problematic ATs
i.e. Hondas from 1998 to 2004.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I keep reading this about clutch replacement but I don't remember my
folks ever having to change a clutch on any of their cars and my first
car was a 1937 Chevrolet that I inherited when my folks bought a new
car and it lasted me for two years before it died and I'm pretty sure
that it still had the original clutch in it. Or, at least I know that
my folks never changed the clutch and I certainly didn't. And my
Grandfather had a Model A pickup that he drove for something like 20
years without a clutch change.

Given that a good friends family had about a 1939 Chevrolet and they
seemed to go through about one clutch a year I believe that clutch
wear is largely a matter of the driver's technique and not a matter of
some sort inherent weakness.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #55  
Old June 28th 19, 03:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:01:34 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 3:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.


Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.


True. And one of the reasons there are no manual transmission trucks
sold in the U.S. anymore. The only reason for a manual is off-road
driving in low gear. You can still buy a Jeep Wrangler with a manual, in
fact not sure if they even offer an automatic.


"no manual transmission trucks sold in the U.S. anymore"
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKajOTa4Gg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6GpCqj1REo
--
cheers,

John B.

  #56  
Old June 28th 19, 03:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default BB standard

On 6/27/2019 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:12:39 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 9:59 AM, wrote:

snip

But they are all available with an AT but people,
- feel manly to stick shift,
- find AT too expensive,
- don't know what they are missing and think AT are still slow and sluggish.

If I simulate my manual shift from my driveway to the main road about 400 m away it would be:
r-1-2-3-2-Corner-3-4-2-speedbump-2-3-4-2-speedbump-3-4-2-corner to main road 15 manual shift in only 400 meter. Crazy. Automatic transmission: choose sport setting or leaving the default comfort setting R-D done!


Not disagreeing that an AT is a better choice. And for vehicles with a
good AT it'll end up costing less because it'll last longer than a
clutch replacement on an MT. But some vehicles have had problematic ATs
i.e. Hondas from 1998 to 2004.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I keep reading this about clutch replacement but I don't remember my
folks ever having to change a clutch on any of their cars and my first
car was a 1937 Chevrolet that I inherited when my folks bought a new
car and it lasted me for two years before it died and I'm pretty sure
that it still had the original clutch in it. Or, at least I know that
my folks never changed the clutch and I certainly didn't. And my
Grandfather had a Model A pickup that he drove for something like 20
years without a clutch change.

Given that a good friends family had about a 1939 Chevrolet and they
seemed to go through about one clutch a year I believe that clutch
wear is largely a matter of the driver's technique and not a matter of
some sort inherent weakness.
--
cheers,

John B.


"largely a matter of the driver's technique"
+1


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #57  
Old June 28th 19, 03:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default BB standard

John B. wrote:

:Although some heavy trucks have auto transmissions today I think that
robably a manual shift would be more convenient for hauling a trailer
:as if nothing else it will allow an appropriate gear to be selected
:for going down steep hills. My Isuzu pickup has a "low range'
:selection on it's auto transmission but that is too low except for
:something like the Matterhorn :-)

Any number of automatic transmissions allow the selection of a
particular gear, and will hold that gear.


--
sig 127
  #58  
Old June 28th 19, 06:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.


Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.


I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission
coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in
towing:
https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/
That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue.

Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking
torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at
cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think
there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have
towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times.

The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same
trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.)
None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac
Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it
was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with
old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing.

Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc.
even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just
went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't
seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might.


All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed
but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while
the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a
transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary.
Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer"
though.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #59  
Old June 28th 19, 06:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default BB standard

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 1:00:32 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.

Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.


I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission
coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in
towing:
https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/
That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue.

Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking
torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at
cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think
there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have
towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times.

The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same
trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.)
None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac
Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it
was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with
old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing.

Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc.
even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just
went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't
seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might.


All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed
but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while
the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a
transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary.
Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer"
though.
--
cheers,

John B.


Browning had a so called automatic transmission for bicycles. I wonder how long it will be now that electronics are so small before a genuine automatic transmission will be available for bicycles? After all, we do have electronic shifting for bicycles that seems to have all the bugs worked out of it..

Cheers
  #60  
Old June 28th 19, 08:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default BB standard

Am 27.06.2019 um 15:13 schrieb sms:
I was just over in Germany two weeks ago (Berlin) and I made a point of
looking for AT cars, peering in the windows. There were a few luxury
cars with automatics, but the vast majority of vehicles (VW, Skoda,
Toyota, Opel, Ford, etc.) were manual.


Europeans traditionally have an idea of "active driving" which means to
include deciding when to change gears.
The switch to AT is (more or less) just happening now: Many people
realize that the "stop-and-go assistants" for the motorways are a lot
more useful in combination with AT, so it appears that new cars the size
of VW Golf or larger tend to have a higher AT rate since 2 or 3 years.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RBT/RBR writing standard datakoll Racing 0 July 31st 07 07:59 AM
Evening Standard Tony Raven[_2_] UK 4 May 1st 07 08:52 AM
Oh boy..... Another HS standard. Llatikcuf Techniques 9 June 24th 06 08:32 PM
One Standard for Jews...a Different Standard for the Rest of Us nitrous Racing 0 January 13th 05 05:55 AM
Sid Standard Davo UK 2 October 14th 03 08:45 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.