"Thanks for Lights"

On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 02:28:03 -0800, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 05:15:20 UTC-5, wrote:


I always imagine the situation 'what if everone is doing/using that?'
and than I think 'no that is not the solution and/or what we want'.
Just like 'what if every car is electric'.

Lou

Right. I can just imagine the electric power demands when most cars are
electric. That's not to mention the demand for the substances from which
the batteries are made.

YMMV, but there is an easy solution for the most common vehicles and that
is to create your own fuel.

After the e-car, the next think is extra solar panels for the house roof
top and as we've retired, it would be easy to just put the power
collected during the day into the e-car during the day.

If we were stll working elsewhere during the day, first stage is to send
it off the the grid and draw it back at night when you return from work.
2nd stage is home batteries.

As to battery demand, i've said before that a local lithium miner has
just mothballed his mine due to lack of demand. Now, if recycling of
lithium batteries can approach the efficenty of the recycling of lead
acid, there is never goig to be a problem.

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:28:06 AM UTC, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 05:15:20 UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 8:07:15 AM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 4 November 2019 22:46:54 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/4/2019 4:52 PM, sms wrote:
One of my friends posted this today:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YixXj54zGDGfcfYT8

"In the morning twilight, a bus driver thanked me for having bright
lights on my bicycle. I felt like I was in civilization again."

Contrary to what some people believe, drivers really do appreciate
cyclists that take steps to make themselves conspicuous.

In twilight, of course lights make sense. In dense fog, they also make
sense.

I've been complimented on my lights and reflectors many times. I've had
drivers stop next to me at traffic lights and say they could see me
"from way back there." I had a friend pass me, then stop to ask about
the "super bright taillight." (It was a reflector.) I've had pedestrians
call out "Nice lights!"

All these incidents and more were with quite ordinary dynamo powered
lights and ordinary reflectors. And none of those were in daylight,
because a cyclist who is not a gutter bunny doesn't need daytime lights,
even though commercial interests are now adding DRLs to the list of
purported "must haves."

They, like Mayor Scharf, are also adding to the public's fear of riding
on ordinary roads with ordinary equipment.

--
- Frank Krygowski

this call for Daylight Running Lights from all bicyclists reminds me of the early marketing blitz promoting helmets for ALL bicyclists. Yes, some can make good use of them but many really don't need them.

Once DRLs are popularized and in use I'll expect the marketing gurus to move onto another piece of so-called "safety" equipment. When will we see roll bars mandated for bicycles? LOL VBEG ;)

Cheers

I always imagine the situation 'what if everone is doing/using that?' and than I think 'no that is not the solution and/or what we want'. Just like 'what if every car is electric'.

Lou

Right. I can just imagine the electric power demands when most cars are electric. That's not to mention the demand for the substances from which the batteries are made.

Cheers

And the end-of-life disposal problems.

Andre Jute
To think only a little further than one's nose is long

On 11/5/2019 7:45 AM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 02:28:03 -0800, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 05:15:20 UTC-5, wrote:


I always imagine the situation 'what if everone is doing/using that?'
and than I think 'no that is not the solution and/or what we want'.
Just like 'what if every car is electric'.

Lou

Right. I can just imagine the electric power demands when most cars are
electric. That's not to mention the demand for the substances from which
the batteries are made.

YMMV, but there is an easy solution for the most common vehicles and that
is to create your own fuel.

After the e-car, the next think is extra solar panels for the house roof
top and as we've retired, it would be easy to just put the power
collected during the day into the e-car during the day.

I know a few people with electric cars. The one most dedicated to
environmental activism long ago fitted a large solar electric array to
his roof. His system used to charge his car until full, then begin
selling energy back to the electric utility. It was smart in that he was
effectively getting full retail value until his car was charged. The
portion going to the utility earns only wholesale value, if that.

That was several years ago. Knowing him, by now he's probably got a
large battery system for his home - although I don't know about the
return on investment of battery storage vs. "running the meter backwards."


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 02:28:03 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 05:15:20 UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 8:07:15 AM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 4 November 2019 22:46:54 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/4/2019 4:52 PM, sms wrote:
One of my friends posted this today:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YixXj54zGDGfcfYT8

"In the morning twilight, a bus driver thanked me for having bright
lights on my bicycle. I felt like I was in civilization again."

Contrary to what some people believe, drivers really do appreciate
cyclists that take steps to make themselves conspicuous.

In twilight, of course lights make sense. In dense fog, they also make
sense.

I've been complimented on my lights and reflectors many times. I've had
drivers stop next to me at traffic lights and say they could see me
"from way back there." I had a friend pass me, then stop to ask about
the "super bright taillight." (It was a reflector.) I've had pedestrians
call out "Nice lights!"

All these incidents and more were with quite ordinary dynamo powered
lights and ordinary reflectors. And none of those were in daylight,
because a cyclist who is not a gutter bunny doesn't need daytime lights,
even though commercial interests are now adding DRLs to the list of
purported "must haves."

They, like Mayor Scharf, are also adding to the public's fear of riding
on ordinary roads with ordinary equipment.

--
- Frank Krygowski

this call for Daylight Running Lights from all bicyclists reminds me of the early marketing blitz promoting helmets for ALL bicyclists. Yes, some can make good use of them but many really don't need them.

Once DRLs are popularized and in use I'll expect the marketing gurus to move onto another piece of so-called "safety" equipment. When will we see roll bars mandated for bicycles? LOL VBEG ;)

Cheers

I always imagine the situation 'what if everone is doing/using that?' and than I think 'no that is not the solution and/or what we want'. Just like 'what if every car is electric'.

Lou

Right. I can just imagine the electric power demands when most cars are electric. That's not to mention the demand for the substances from which the batteries are made.

Cheers

Years ago I read an article describing what the author envisioned as
the acceptable electric car. About the size of a VW Bug and with a
range of 75 miles. Than he calculated the effects of everyone driving
home from work and plugging in the car. Los Angeles, where he lived,
would have to double the electric generating capability to handle the
surge in requirements.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 11/5/2019 2:31 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Years ago I read an article describing what the author envisioned as
the acceptable electric car. About the size of a VW Bug and with a
range of 75 miles. Than he calculated the effects of everyone driving
home from work and plugging in the car. Los Angeles, where he lived,
would have to double the electric generating capability to handle the
surge in requirements.

On my street there are a lot of electric cars and plug-in hybrids. And
every house with one of those vehicles also has solar panels on the roof
generating far more electricity, even in the winter, to feed onto the
grid to charge an electric car. In the winter the panels don't meet the
entire need of the house, in the summer they exceed the entire need.

So things have changed since you read that article years ago.

Of course in high-density housing you can't have enough solar panels for
the building to be self-sustaining, and surprisingly high-density
housing uses more electricity and gas, on a per occupant basis, than a
single family home. In a single family home you can have solar
electricity, solar hot water heating, solar clothes dryers
(clotheslines), and you don't have common spaces or elevators.

On 11/6/2019 12:49 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/5/2019 2:31 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Years ago I read an article describing what the author envisioned as
the acceptable electric car. About the size of a VW Bug and with a
range of 75 miles. Than he calculated the effects of everyone driving
home from work and plugging in the car. Los Angeles, where he lived,
would have to double the electric generating capability to handle the
surge in requirements.

On my street there are a lot of electric cars and plug-in hybrids. And
every house with one of those vehicles also has solar panels on the roof
generating far more electricity, even in the winter, to feed onto the
grid to charge an electric car. In the winter the panels don't meet the
entire need of the house, in the summer they exceed the entire need.

So things have changed since you read that article years ago.

Of course in high-density housing you can't have enough solar panels for
the building to be self-sustaining, and surprisingly high-density
housing uses more electricity and gas, on a per occupant basis, than a
single family home. In a single family home you can have solar
electricity, solar hot water heating, solar clothes dryers
(clotheslines), and you don't have common spaces or elevators.

Scharf won't respond to this, but: I'm very curious about the claim that
single family homes use less gas and electricity than high-density
housing. Others disagree with that statement. See
https://michaelsenergy.com/briefs/mu...es-energy-use/
and
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=11731

It's true that single family homes _can_ have solar electricity, solar
water heating and clotheslines; but only a tiny percentage do. Even in
Florida (where we just vacationed) home solar units were extremely rare.
And I didn't see a clothesline the entire trip.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 15:02:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/6/2019 12:49 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/5/2019 2:31 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Years ago I read an article describing what the author envisioned as
the acceptable electric car. About the size of a VW Bug and with a
range of 75 miles. Than he calculated the effects of everyone driving
home from work and plugging in the car. Los Angeles, where he lived,
would have to double the electric generating capability to handle the
surge in requirements.

On my street there are a lot of electric cars and plug-in hybrids. And
every house with one of those vehicles also has solar panels on the roof
generating far more electricity, even in the winter, to feed onto the
grid to charge an electric car. In the winter the panels don't meet the
entire need of the house, in the summer they exceed the entire need.

So things have changed since you read that article years ago.

Of course in high-density housing you can't have enough solar panels for
the building to be self-sustaining, and surprisingly high-density
housing uses more electricity and gas, on a per occupant basis, than a
single family home. In a single family home you can have solar
electricity, solar hot water heating, solar clothes dryers
(clotheslines), and you don't have common spaces or elevators.

Scharf won't respond to this, but: I'm very curious about the claim that
single family homes use less gas and electricity than high-density
housing. Others disagree with that statement. See
https://michaelsenergy.com/briefs/mu...es-energy-use/
and
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=11731

It's true that single family homes _can_ have solar electricity, solar
water heating and clotheslines; but only a tiny percentage do. Even in
Florida (where we just vacationed) home solar units were extremely rare.
And I didn't see a clothesline the entire trip.

Well, I mean, really!
Would you have all those people carry those wet clothes all the way
out to the clothesline and hang them up? And than have to go back and
pick them off the line and carry them all the way back into the house?
Why, with all that tooing and froing they would miss Oprah.

And on top of that, just think of the neighbors. How would they feel
when they discover that their neighbors can't even afford a cloths
dryer? And there goes the neighborhood. What will be next? School
buses?
--
cheers,

John B.

On 11/6/2019 6:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 15:02:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/6/2019 12:49 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/5/2019 2:31 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Years ago I read an article describing what the author envisioned as
the acceptable electric car. About the size of a VW Bug and with a
range of 75 miles. Than he calculated the effects of everyone driving
home from work and plugging in the car. Los Angeles, where he lived,
would have to double the electric generating capability to handle the
surge in requirements.

On my street there are a lot of electric cars and plug-in hybrids. And
every house with one of those vehicles also has solar panels on the roof
generating far more electricity, even in the winter, to feed onto the
grid to charge an electric car. In the winter the panels don't meet the
entire need of the house, in the summer they exceed the entire need.

So things have changed since you read that article years ago.

Of course in high-density housing you can't have enough solar panels for
the building to be self-sustaining, and surprisingly high-density
housing uses more electricity and gas, on a per occupant basis, than a
single family home. In a single family home you can have solar
electricity, solar hot water heating, solar clothes dryers
(clotheslines), and you don't have common spaces or elevators.

Scharf won't respond to this, but: I'm very curious about the claim that
single family homes use less gas and electricity than high-density
housing. Others disagree with that statement. See
https://michaelsenergy.com/briefs/mu...es-energy-use/
and
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=11731

It's true that single family homes _can_ have solar electricity, solar
water heating and clotheslines; but only a tiny percentage do. Even in
Florida (where we just vacationed) home solar units were extremely rare.
And I didn't see a clothesline the entire trip.

Well, I mean, really!
Would you have all those people carry those wet clothes all the way
out to the clothesline and hang them up? And than have to go back and
pick them off the line and carry them all the way back into the house?
Why, with all that tooing and froing they would miss Oprah.

And on top of that, just think of the neighbors. How would they feel
when they discover that their neighbors can't even afford a cloths
dryer? And there goes the neighborhood. What will be next? School
buses?

It is sad. I have relatives that live in a community that has forbidden
clothes lines.

OTOH, riding through Amish territory (maybe 40 miles from my home) there
are lots of clothes lines visible. I think it looks picturesque.

My wife disagrees. The result is, when I happen to empty the clothes
washer, the clothes go on the lines. When she empties the washer, they
go into the clothes dryer.

And I know at least one family that is proudly anti-fracking, but uses a
gas clothes dryer instead of a clothes line. Go figure!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/6/2019 3:08 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Well, I mean, really!
Would you have all those people carry those wet clothes all the way
out to the clothesline and hang them up? And than have to go back and
pick them off the line and carry them all the way back into the house?
Why, with all that tooing and froing they would miss Oprah.

And on top of that, just think of the neighbors. How would they feel
when they discover that their neighbors can't even afford a cloths
dryer? And there goes the neighborhood. What will be next? School
buses?

I find a clothesline more time efficient. We hang the shirts and pants
on plastic hangers and let them dry on the hangers. We sort the socks as
we hang them on the clothesline. While I don't watch Oprah, the to and
from the clothesline, rather than from the utility room, is not much
difference in distance.

Of course if I lived in a high-rise apartment building our energy
efficiency and sustainability would go down. We couldn't use solar to
charge the plug-in hybrid. We'd have to use clothes dryer all the time
instead of just in bad weather. We couldn't have all those plants and
trees that are taking in CO2 and emitting oxygen. We'd have to use
elevators to reach our unit. The common areas would have to be lit,
heated, and cooled. Heating costs might be a little less. A good article
about this can be found at
https://www.citylab.com/design/2017/12/when-density-isnt-greener/548384/.

But we live in a "close-in" suburban community where we can get to many
places by bicycle or walking. It's different when you live in a suburb
that's far from civilization.

John B. writes:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 15:02:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/6/2019 12:49 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/5/2019 2:31 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Years ago I read an article describing what the author envisioned as
the acceptable electric car. About the size of a VW Bug and with a
range of 75 miles. Than he calculated the effects of everyone driving
home from work and plugging in the car. Los Angeles, where he lived,
would have to double the electric generating capability to handle the
surge in requirements.

On my street there are a lot of electric cars and plug-in hybrids. And
every house with one of those vehicles also has solar panels on the roof
generating far more electricity, even in the winter, to feed onto the
grid to charge an electric car. In the winter the panels don't meet the
entire need of the house, in the summer they exceed the entire need.

So things have changed since you read that article years ago.

Of course in high-density housing you can't have enough solar panels for
the building to be self-sustaining, and surprisingly high-density
housing uses more electricity and gas, on a per occupant basis, than a
single family home. In a single family home you can have solar
electricity, solar hot water heating, solar clothes dryers
(clotheslines), and you don't have common spaces or elevators.

Scharf won't respond to this, but: I'm very curious about the claim that
single family homes use less gas and electricity than high-density
housing. Others disagree with that statement. See
https://michaelsenergy.com/briefs/mu...es-energy-use/
and
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=11731

It's true that single family homes _can_ have solar electricity, solar
water heating and clotheslines; but only a tiny percentage do. Even in
Florida (where we just vacationed) home solar units were extremely rare.
And I didn't see a clothesline the entire trip.

Well, I mean, really!
Would you have all those people carry those wet clothes all the way
out to the clothesline and hang them up? And than have to go back and
pick them off the line and carry them all the way back into the house?
Why, with all that tooing and froing they would miss Oprah.

And on top of that, just think of the neighbors. How would they feel
when they discover that their neighbors can't even afford a cloths
dryer? And there goes the neighborhood. What will be next? School
buses?

I suppose you're joking, but there are certainly home owners
associations that forbid clotheslines. One of the many reasons I
wouldn't want to buy a house encumbered with one (HOA).

--