Wheels and tires

After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say that they just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a vanishingly small amount of lower rolling resistance but so what? Pros are using them on their TT bikes for every last bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to pay for a sealant and the sealant installation kit. You have to buy special rims that have a step to seal the bottom of the bead. You have to have a valve head puller and a few spare valve heads since this operation occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell to put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't designed to take bad roads covered in broken glass as they are in the bay area. So despite being "flat proof" they aren't. And it is surprisingly easy to break or cut the cord of the tires.

On mountain roads out in the middle of nowhere I have found broken whiskey and beer bottles covering the roads with broken untempered glass. (sharp edges and pointed shards). In San Francisco you can ride sometimes for two or three blocks and the drivers door area on the ground is covered in broken glass at every parking place where thieves walked down two or three blocks breaking into every single car on the street. Even tempered glass shards can give you a flat eventually.

Several manufacturers including Trek offer rim liners that take the place of rim tape on clincher tires. The problem is that they fill in the clincher well making the tubeless tires virtually impossible to install. What you need is to buy the almost scotch tape thin tire liner to protect the spoke holes. This barely gives you the space needed to install a tire.

Since regardless of what tubeless tire and sealant you use you can still get a flat, you still have to carry a seat pack with a spare tube and filler etc. So what is the sports rider gaining by using tubeless? Granted that the flats are far fewer between if you're running racing tires, but you can run Gatorskins or the like and not have any worries about flats for at least as long.

And it is very difficult to put tubeless tires on. And tubeless rims are very difficult to put a normal clincher tire on.

Doesn't this seem kind of pointless if you are riding for sport?

Carbon deep aero rims are also a problem. Firstly most of them are tubeless now and so very difficult to mount or dismount tires. Secondly most of the Chinese wheels have those flat "aero" spokes that do not measure tension correctly on spoke tensiometers. So most of these types have spoke tensions half or less of what is required to keep the wheel from steering itself about and crashing you. The real aero spokes and round spokes do not suffer from this problem and seem to be taking over the Chinese market again.

Carbon wheels have a very uneven spoke bed and rim thickness and hence cannot get a round and true wheel with even spoke tension so even a well spoked wheel has tensions varying by as much as 100% to get a true wheel. While I suppose that doesn't make a great deal of difference, as a wheelbuilder I don't like it.

Now if you have disk brakes on carbon wheels they will last forever. But if you have rim brakes, aluminum and carbon wheels have roughly the same lifespan (using the matching brake pad material) and aluminum wheels are a great deal easier to deal with. Not only that but since they have to overbuild carbon wheels to make them reliable, they weight about the same as aluminum wheels. My Pro-lite aluminum 40 mm deep aero aluminum wheels weigh slightly less than my 55 mm deep carbon wheels.

These deep sections are immensely strong and unlike the superlight box rims that were in vogue for awhile, they are almost impossible to break spokes or rims.

But clincher tires on clincher rims are a great deal easier to deal with. And clincher tires are 20% or more cheaper than tubeless though that is likely to change.

So my long term test of carbon wheels and tubeless tires has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I have weighed the wheels by several different Chinese manufacturers and the claimed weight is very close to that measured. The American manufacturers claimed weights are very close to that of the Chinese and the cost is 6 to 10 times as much.

The Chinese are also beginning to make pretty good aluminum wheels and with direct mount brakes, the braking is pretty much on a par with disk brakes. Unfortunately it is difficult to find real clincher rims at present I suspect that they will soon turn up.

So in the end analysis I will return to aluminum rims and clincher (tube) tires.
C'est la vie. (Such is life) Not all advancements are advancements anymore. Bicycles are pretty close to their zenith.

I still like the superlight construction of Trek's three top of the line bikes. but they are pretty much unique in absolute quality of build. They keep their process top secret for a reason.

On 2020-03-23 12:13, Tom Kunich wrote:
After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say that they
just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a vanishingly small amount of
lower rolling resistance but so what? Pros are using them on their TT
bikes for every last bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to pay for a
sealant and the sealant installation kit. You have to buy special
rims that have a step to seal the bottom of the bead. You have to
have a valve head puller and a few spare valve heads since this
operation occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell to
put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't designed to take
bad roads covered in broken glass as they are in the bay area. So
despite being "flat proof" they aren't. And it is surprisingly easy
to break or cut the cord of the tires.


I coulda told ya :-)

IME nothing beats thorn-resistant thick tubes plus tire liners. No
flats, except when a tire fails structurally such as in a side wall
blow-out. The good nows is then you can use any low cost tire and even
ride that one to almost the very end. Given the low quality of bicycle
tires which seems to be quite independent of price I am no longer
willing to spend more than $20/tire.

I ride for sports and for transportation. During sports rides I hate
flats. Whenever we (as in "one of the other guys") experience a flat
that puts a crimp in the ride or we get home late. On a transportation
ride I might miss the Fedex cut-off which can be really bad for a client.

We should all think about how many tens of thousands of miles it was
that we had a flat on a car. Or usually, hundreds of thousands of miles.
Why should that be different on a bicycle?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:23:32 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 12:13, Tom Kunich wrote:
After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say that they
just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a vanishingly small amount of
lower rolling resistance but so what? Pros are using them on their TT
bikes for every last bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to pay for a
sealant and the sealant installation kit. You have to buy special
rims that have a step to seal the bottom of the bead. You have to
have a valve head puller and a few spare valve heads since this
operation occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell to
put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't designed to take
bad roads covered in broken glass as they are in the bay area. So
despite being "flat proof" they aren't. And it is surprisingly easy
to break or cut the cord of the tires.


I coulda told ya :-)

IME nothing beats thorn-resistant thick tubes plus tire liners. No
flats, except when a tire fails structurally such as in a side wall
blow-out. The good nows is then you can use any low cost tire and even
ride that one to almost the very end. Given the low quality of bicycle
tires which seems to be quite independent of price I am no longer
willing to spend more than $20/tire.

I ride for sports and for transportation. During sports rides I hate
flats. Whenever we (as in "one of the other guys") experience a flat
that puts a crimp in the ride or we get home late. On a transportation
ride I might miss the Fedex cut-off which can be really bad for a client.

We should all think about how many tens of thousands of miles it was
that we had a flat on a car. Or usually, hundreds of thousands of miles.
Why should that be different on a bicycle?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

One of the very best all around road riding tires I've used is the Michellin Pro4. I couldn't believe the difference in rolling resistance between those and the Gatorskins.

On 2020-03-23 14:50, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:23:32 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 12:13, Tom Kunich wrote:
After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say that they
just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a vanishingly small amount of
lower rolling resistance but so what? Pros are using them on their TT
bikes for every last bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to pay for a
sealant and the sealant installation kit. You have to buy special
rims that have a step to seal the bottom of the bead. You have to
have a valve head puller and a few spare valve heads since this
operation occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell to
put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't designed to take
bad roads covered in broken glass as they are in the bay area. So
despite being "flat proof" they aren't. And it is surprisingly easy
to break or cut the cord of the tires.


I coulda told ya :-)

IME nothing beats thorn-resistant thick tubes plus tire liners. No
flats, except when a tire fails structurally such as in a side wall
blow-out. The good nows is then you can use any low cost tire and even
ride that one to almost the very end. Given the low quality of bicycle
tires which seems to be quite independent of price I am no longer
willing to spend more than $20/tire.

I ride for sports and for transportation. During sports rides I hate
flats. Whenever we (as in "one of the other guys") experience a flat
that puts a crimp in the ride or we get home late. On a transportation
ride I might miss the Fedex cut-off which can be really bad for a client.

We should all think about how many tens of thousands of miles it was
that we had a flat on a car. Or usually, hundreds of thousands of miles.
Why should that be different on a bicycle?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

One of the very best all around road riding tires I've used is the Michellin Pro4. I couldn't believe the difference in rolling resistance between those and the Gatorskins.


However, it is very expensive. Amazon wants a whopping $79 and only has
23mm. The reviews are a bit mixed and one guy wrote that is were worn
after only 600mi:

https://www.amazon.com/MICHELIN-Pro4...s&pageNumber=3

I just bought another stash of Vittoria Zaffiro. Not exactly the best in
rolling resistance but I don't have to win a trophy. They cost under $20
and net me 1200mi or more per rear tire.

Regarding Gatorskins I am very disappointed. From the last four all have
prematurely failed. Three with side wall damage and on the 4th the
running surface started flapping off. Considering that they cost me
around $45 each that was a dismal performance. They were also very tough
to mount onto shallow rims. I get a Zaffiro on there in under 5mins and
without my thumbs hurting all day afterwards.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:23:32 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 12:13, Tom Kunich wrote:
After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say that they
just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a vanishingly small amount of
lower rolling resistance but so what? Pros are using them on their TT
bikes for every last bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to pay for a
sealant and the sealant installation kit. You have to buy special
rims that have a step to seal the bottom of the bead. You have to
have a valve head puller and a few spare valve heads since this
operation occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell to
put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't designed to take
bad roads covered in broken glass as they are in the bay area. So
despite being "flat proof" they aren't. And it is surprisingly easy
to break or cut the cord of the tires.


I coulda told ya :-)

IME nothing beats thorn-resistant thick tubes plus tire liners. No
flats, except when a tire fails structurally such as in a side wall
blow-out. The good nows is then you can use any low cost tire and even
ride that one to almost the very end. Given the low quality of bicycle
tires which seems to be quite independent of price I am no longer
willing to spend more than $20/tire.

I ride for sports and for transportation. During sports rides I hate
flats. Whenever we (as in "one of the other guys") experience a flat
that puts a crimp in the ride or we get home late. On a transportation
ride I might miss the Fedex cut-off which can be really bad for a client.

We should all think about how many tens of thousands of miles it was
that we had a flat on a car. Or usually, hundreds of thousands of miles.
Why should that be different on a bicycle?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

One of the very best all around road riding tires I've used is the
Michellin Pro4. I couldn't believe the difference in rolling resistance
between those and the Gatorskins.


They also have bugger all grip if you live in moist lands!

I go to was always the 4seasons thought and fast and reasonably grippy.

My commute bike is now a old MTB and I’ve settled on big apples which give
a lovely ride, even with a heavily loaded bike. I had used Marathon Plus
Touring but they just gave such a harsh ride!

One thing I did noticed moving to the MTB for commuting was the huge grip
levels, wet manhole covers etc no longer are even a thing! At 50+mm the
tyre just swallows it!

Roger Merriman

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 3:17:51 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 14:50, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:23:32 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 12:13, Tom Kunich wrote:
After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say that they
just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a vanishingly small amount of
lower rolling resistance but so what? Pros are using them on their TT
bikes for every last bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to pay for a
sealant and the sealant installation kit. You have to buy special
rims that have a step to seal the bottom of the bead. You have to
have a valve head puller and a few spare valve heads since this
operation occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell to
put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't designed to take
bad roads covered in broken glass as they are in the bay area. So
despite being "flat proof" they aren't. And it is surprisingly easy
to break or cut the cord of the tires.


I coulda told ya :-)

IME nothing beats thorn-resistant thick tubes plus tire liners. No
flats, except when a tire fails structurally such as in a side wall
blow-out. The good nows is then you can use any low cost tire and even
ride that one to almost the very end. Given the low quality of bicycle
tires which seems to be quite independent of price I am no longer
willing to spend more than $20/tire.

I ride for sports and for transportation. During sports rides I hate
flats. Whenever we (as in "one of the other guys") experience a flat
that puts a crimp in the ride or we get home late. On a transportation
ride I might miss the Fedex cut-off which can be really bad for a client.

We should all think about how many tens of thousands of miles it was
that we had a flat on a car. Or usually, hundreds of thousands of miles.
Why should that be different on a bicycle?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

One of the very best all around road riding tires I've used is the Michellin Pro4. I couldn't believe the difference in rolling resistance between those and the Gatorskins.


However, it is very expensive. Amazon wants a whopping $79 and only has
23mm. The reviews are a bit mixed and one guy wrote that is were worn
after only 600mi:

https://www.amazon.com/MICHELIN-Pro4...s&pageNumber=3

I just bought another stash of Vittoria Zaffiro. Not exactly the best in
rolling resistance but I don't have to win a trophy. They cost under $20
and net me 1200mi or more per rear tire.

Regarding Gatorskins I am very disappointed. From the last four all have
prematurely failed. Three with side wall damage and on the 4th the
running surface started flapping off. Considering that they cost me
around $45 each that was a dismal performance. They were also very tough
to mount onto shallow rims. I get a Zaffiro on there in under 5mins and
without my thumbs hurting all day afterwards.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If my memory is correct doesn't your normal commute route go over gravel roads?

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 3:17:51 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 14:50, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:23:32 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 12:13, Tom Kunich wrote:
After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say that they
just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a vanishingly small amount of
lower rolling resistance but so what? Pros are using them on their TT
bikes for every last bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to pay for a
sealant and the sealant installation kit. You have to buy special
rims that have a step to seal the bottom of the bead. You have to
have a valve head puller and a few spare valve heads since this
operation occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell to
put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't designed to take
bad roads covered in broken glass as they are in the bay area. So
despite being "flat proof" they aren't. And it is surprisingly easy
to break or cut the cord of the tires.


I coulda told ya :-)

IME nothing beats thorn-resistant thick tubes plus tire liners. No
flats, except when a tire fails structurally such as in a side wall
blow-out. The good nows is then you can use any low cost tire and even
ride that one to almost the very end. Given the low quality of bicycle
tires which seems to be quite independent of price I am no longer
willing to spend more than $20/tire.

I ride for sports and for transportation. During sports rides I hate
flats. Whenever we (as in "one of the other guys") experience a flat
that puts a crimp in the ride or we get home late. On a transportation
ride I might miss the Fedex cut-off which can be really bad for a client.

We should all think about how many tens of thousands of miles it was
that we had a flat on a car. Or usually, hundreds of thousands of miles.
Why should that be different on a bicycle?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

One of the very best all around road riding tires I've used is the Michellin Pro4. I couldn't believe the difference in rolling resistance between those and the Gatorskins.


However, it is very expensive. Amazon wants a whopping $79 and only has
23mm. The reviews are a bit mixed and one guy wrote that is were worn
after only 600mi:

https://www.amazon.com/MICHELIN-Pro4...s&pageNumber=3

I just bought another stash of Vittoria Zaffiro. Not exactly the best in
rolling resistance but I don't have to win a trophy. They cost under $20
and net me 1200mi or more per rear tire.

Regarding Gatorskins I am very disappointed. From the last four all have
prematurely failed. Three with side wall damage and on the 4th the
running surface started flapping off. Considering that they cost me
around $45 each that was a dismal performance. They were also very tough
to mount onto shallow rims. I get a Zaffiro on there in under 5mins and
without my thumbs hurting all day afterwards.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-t.../11090776.html

On 2020-03-24 09:48, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 3:17:51 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 14:50, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:23:32 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 12:13, Tom Kunich wrote:
After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say that they
just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a vanishingly small amount of
lower rolling resistance but so what? Pros are using them on their TT
bikes for every last bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to pay for a
sealant and the sealant installation kit. You have to buy special
rims that have a step to seal the bottom of the bead. You have to
have a valve head puller and a few spare valve heads since this
operation occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell to
put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't designed to take
bad roads covered in broken glass as they are in the bay area. So
despite being "flat proof" they aren't. And it is surprisingly easy
to break or cut the cord of the tires.


I coulda told ya :-)

IME nothing beats thorn-resistant thick tubes plus tire liners. No
flats, except when a tire fails structurally such as in a side wall
blow-out. The good nows is then you can use any low cost tire and even
ride that one to almost the very end. Given the low quality of bicycle
tires which seems to be quite independent of price I am no longer
willing to spend more than $20/tire.

I ride for sports and for transportation. During sports rides I hate
flats. Whenever we (as in "one of the other guys") experience a flat
that puts a crimp in the ride or we get home late. On a transportation
ride I might miss the Fedex cut-off which can be really bad for a client.

We should all think about how many tens of thousands of miles it was
that we had a flat on a car. Or usually, hundreds of thousands of miles.
Why should that be different on a bicycle?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

One of the very best all around road riding tires I've used is the Michellin Pro4. I couldn't believe the difference in rolling resistance between those and the Gatorskins.


However, it is very expensive. Amazon wants a whopping $79 and only has
23mm. The reviews are a bit mixed and one guy wrote that is were worn
after only 600mi:

https://www.amazon.com/MICHELIN-Pro4...s&pageNumber=3

I just bought another stash of Vittoria Zaffiro. Not exactly the best in
rolling resistance but I don't have to win a trophy. They cost under $20
and net me 1200mi or more per rear tire.

Regarding Gatorskins I am very disappointed. From the last four all have
prematurely failed. Three with side wall damage and on the 4th the
running surface started flapping off. Considering that they cost me
around $45 each that was a dismal performance. They were also very tough
to mount onto shallow rims. I get a Zaffiro on there in under 5mins and
without my thumbs hurting all day afterwards.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If my memory is correct doesn't your normal commute route go over gravel roads?


I have no commute for the last 15+ years. Well, my commute is about
10sec walking, from our living room to the office.

The road bike stays on pavement except for very brief stretches of
gravel and dirt, but no MTB-style turf. IMO a vehicle needs to tolerate
that because this is part of our road infrastructure in the US. Cars
tolerate that so I expect a bicycle to do the same. I do walk the bike
if I feel it's too rough on it, a treatment my car is not being afforded.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 10:04:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 3:17:51 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 14:50, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:23:32 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 12:13, Tom Kunich wrote:
After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say that they
just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a vanishingly small amount of
lower rolling resistance but so what? Pros are using them on their TT
bikes for every last bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to pay for a
sealant and the sealant installation kit. You have to buy special
rims that have a step to seal the bottom of the bead. You have to
have a valve head puller and a few spare valve heads since this
operation occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell to
put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't designed to take
bad roads covered in broken glass as they are in the bay area. So
despite being "flat proof" they aren't. And it is surprisingly easy
to break or cut the cord of the tires.


I coulda told ya :-)

IME nothing beats thorn-resistant thick tubes plus tire liners. No
flats, except when a tire fails structurally such as in a side wall
blow-out. The good nows is then you can use any low cost tire and even
ride that one to almost the very end. Given the low quality of bicycle
tires which seems to be quite independent of price I am no longer
willing to spend more than $20/tire.

I ride for sports and for transportation. During sports rides I hate
flats. Whenever we (as in "one of the other guys") experience a flat
that puts a crimp in the ride or we get home late. On a transportation
ride I might miss the Fedex cut-off which can be really bad for a client.

We should all think about how many tens of thousands of miles it was
that we had a flat on a car. Or usually, hundreds of thousands of miles.
Why should that be different on a bicycle?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

One of the very best all around road riding tires I've used is the Michellin Pro4. I couldn't believe the difference in rolling resistance between those and the Gatorskins.


However, it is very expensive. Amazon wants a whopping $79 and only has
23mm. The reviews are a bit mixed and one guy wrote that is were worn
after only 600mi:

https://www.amazon.com/MICHELIN-Pro4...s&pageNumber=3

I just bought another stash of Vittoria Zaffiro. Not exactly the best in
rolling resistance but I don't have to win a trophy. They cost under $20
and net me 1200mi or more per rear tire.

Regarding Gatorskins I am very disappointed. From the last four all have
prematurely failed. Three with side wall damage and on the 4th the
running surface started flapping off. Considering that they cost me
around $45 each that was a dismal performance. They were also very tough
to mount onto shallow rims. I get a Zaffiro on there in under 5mins and
without my thumbs hurting all day afterwards.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-t.../11090776.html

I should add that those are single tires. If you want a two pack they are also available for $65 and the only available size presently is 25 mm.

On 2020-03-24 10:07, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 10:04:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 3:17:51 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 14:50, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:23:32 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-03-23 12:13, Tom Kunich wrote:
After running tubeless tires for over a year now I can say
that they just aren't worth it. Perhaps they save a
vanishingly small amount of lower rolling resistance but so
what? Pros are using them on their TT bikes for every last
bit of advantage they can get.

But the tires are frighteningly expensive, you then have to
pay for a sealant and the sealant installation kit. You
have to buy special rims that have a step to seal the
bottom of the bead. You have to have a valve head puller
and a few spare valve heads since this operation
occasionally breaks one. -This makes the tires pure hell
to put on. Most of the "tubeless tires" really aren't
designed to take bad roads covered in broken glass as they
are in the bay area. So despite being "flat proof" they
aren't. And it is surprisingly easy to break or cut the
cord of the tires.


I coulda told ya :-)

IME nothing beats thorn-resistant thick tubes plus tire
liners. No flats, except when a tire fails structurally such
as in a side wall blow-out. The good nows is then you can use
any low cost tire and even ride that one to almost the very
end. Given the low quality of bicycle tires which seems to be
quite independent of price I am no longer willing to spend
more than $20/tire.

I ride for sports and for transportation. During sports rides
I hate flats. Whenever we (as in "one of the other guys")
experience a flat that puts a crimp in the ride or we get
home late. On a transportation ride I might miss the Fedex
cut-off which can be really bad for a client.

We should all think about how many tens of thousands of miles
it was that we had a flat on a car. Or usually, hundreds of
thousands of miles. Why should that be different on a
bicycle?

[...]

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

One of the very best all around road riding tires I've used is
the Michellin Pro4. I couldn't believe the difference in
rolling resistance between those and the Gatorskins.


However, it is very expensive. Amazon wants a whopping $79 and
only has 23mm. The reviews are a bit mixed and one guy wrote that
is were worn after only 600mi:

https://www.amazon.com/MICHELIN-Pro4...s&pageNumber=3



I just bought another stash of Vittoria Zaffiro. Not exactly the best in
rolling resistance but I don't have to win a trophy. They cost
under $20 and net me 1200mi or more per rear tire.

Regarding Gatorskins I am very disappointed. From the last four
all have prematurely failed. Three with side wall damage and on
the 4th the running surface started flapping off. Considering
that they cost me around $45 each that was a dismal performance.
They were also very tough to mount onto shallow rims. I get a
Zaffiro on there in under 5mins and without my thumbs hurting all
day afterwards.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-t.../11090776.html


I should add that those are single tires. If you want a two pack they
are also available for $65 and the only available size presently is
25 mm.


25mm is good and it's an ok price but only if that tire last 2x as long
as the Zaffiro. I got my last round of Zaffiros for around $16/ea
including shipping. That stack should last me through the end of 2021.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/