No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary

On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 13:56:56 -0800 (PST), Mark Cleary
wrote:

Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know?

If I am not mistaken the hubs are drilled for a straight spoke - no
hooked end, so if you are going to special order spokes to fit the
hub, why not just buy the correct Shimano spokes to fit the wheel?
Shimano part number:
Y49X98010 - Spoke (287 mm) w/Plug & Washer
Y4G308100 - Hub Nut

I also came across some things called spoke nipple washers
https://www.jensonusa.com/Whisky-Sta...Nipple-Washers
which might be of use if you drill the wheel for conventional nipples.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Whisky-No9-41W-275-Plus-Rim

Re classic bicycles - Call Andrew Muzi. I'm sure that he can supply
what you want :-)


So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary
--
cheers,

John B.

That is my main concern can i simply drill the rim to put nipppes on? Yes it I just need straight pull spokes no hook. Much cheaper than Shimano proprietary. I think it can take a regular nipple with no washer but I need to check otherwise Washers in order.

So drill rim is ok no downside?

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 5:41:41 PM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
That is my main concern can i simply drill the rim to put nipppes on? Yes it I just need straight pull spokes no hook. Much cheaper than Shimano proprietary. I think it can take a regular nipple with no washer but I need to check otherwise Washers in order.

So drill rim is ok no downside?

Downside may be hole cracking because of existing rim design (minimal material and excessive loading with standard nipple -- who knows ) and the "nipple lathe" effect if you don't get the opening smooth. A failure, however would not be catastrophic, just a spoke pull-through or nipple failure requiring an on-road fix to get the rim through your rim brake calipers. I doubt the thing would explode.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:41:39 -0800 (PST), Mark Cleary
wrote:

That is my main concern can i simply drill the rim to put nipppes on? Yes it I just need straight pull spokes no hook. Much cheaper than Shimano proprietary. I think it can take a regular nipple with no washer but I need to check otherwise Washers in order.

So drill rim is ok no downside?

I would be suspicious of the hardness of the carbon. Would a
conventional spoke nipple have sufficient bearing surface to prevent
damage to the rim?

Given that the "Whiskey" wheels which appear to be similar to what you
will be making require a washer I suspect that the addition of a
washer under the nipple head might be advantageous.
https://whiskyparts.co/rims
--
cheers,

John B.

On 2/20/2020 7:18 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 13:56:56 -0800 (PST), Mark Cleary
wrote:

Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know?

If I am not mistaken the hubs are drilled for a straight spoke - no
hooked end, so if you are going to special order spokes to fit the
hub, why not just buy the correct Shimano spokes to fit the wheel?
Shimano part number:
Y49X98010 - Spoke (287 mm) w/Plug & Washer
Y4G308100 - Hub Nut

I also came across some things called spoke nipple washers
https://www.jensonusa.com/Whisky-Sta...Nipple-Washers
which might be of use if you drill the wheel for conventional nipples.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Whisky-No9-41W-275-Plus-Rim

Re classic bicycles - Call Andrew Muzi. I'm sure that he can supply
what you want :-)


So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary


Indeed straight pull spokes, an any length, are in stock
here and readily available all over. Not at all a rare or
unusual thing.

That said, I could see dropping the tension, lubricating the
spoke threads and then bringing the wheels up to tension
again. I could also see building new wheels with, for
example, Velocity sealed cartridge hubs on Velocity USA made
rims. I don't see the point of reworking a pair of Shimano
wheels as described.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/20/2020 7:41 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
That is my main concern can i simply drill the rim to put nipppes on? Yes it I just need straight pull spokes no hook. Much cheaper than Shimano proprietary. I think it can take a regular nipple with no washer but I need to check otherwise Washers in order.

So drill rim is ok no downside?


I don't know and you don't either.

It's as likely to be expensive time consuming and futile
(best result) as to incite catastrophic failure.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 10:56:59 PM UTC+1, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary

Are the wheels broken or otherwise not functioning? No, leave them as they are. I see no point in going through all that trouble for such a cheap wheelset (just over 200 euro over here).

Lou

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 6:20:24 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/20/2020 7:18 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 13:56:56 -0800 (PST), Mark Cleary
wrote:

Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know?

If I am not mistaken the hubs are drilled for a straight spoke - no
hooked end, so if you are going to special order spokes to fit the
hub, why not just buy the correct Shimano spokes to fit the wheel?
Shimano part number:
Y49X98010 - Spoke (287 mm) w/Plug & Washer
Y4G308100 - Hub Nut

I also came across some things called spoke nipple washers
https://www.jensonusa.com/Whisky-Sta...Nipple-Washers
which might be of use if you drill the wheel for conventional nipples.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Whisky-No9-41W-275-Plus-Rim

Re classic bicycles - Call Andrew Muzi. I'm sure that he can supply
what you want :-)


So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary


Indeed straight pull spokes, an any length, are in stock
here and readily available all over. Not at all a rare or
unusual thing.

That said, I could see dropping the tension, lubricating the
spoke threads and then bringing the wheels up to tension
again. I could also see building new wheels with, for
example, Velocity sealed cartridge hubs on Velocity USA made
rims. I don't see the point of reworking a pair of Shimano
wheels as described.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

That just rang a bell - lubricating the nipple threads. If the spokes are the correct length they should have just a thread or two showing shouldn't they? If this is so I can see that lubricating the threads are the way to go.. Most of the wheels I've been seeing have spokes a little longer than necessary and the nipples bottom out and start cutting the threads out of the aluminum nipples.

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 6:02:33 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 5:41:41 PM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
That is my main concern can i simply drill the rim to put nipppes on? Yes it I just need straight pull spokes no hook. Much cheaper than Shimano proprietary. I think it can take a regular nipple with no washer but I need to check otherwise Washers in order.

So drill rim is ok no downside?

Downside may be hole cracking because of existing rim design (minimal material and excessive loading with standard nipple -- who knows ) and the "nipple lathe" effect if you don't get the opening smooth. A failure, however would not be catastrophic, just a spoke pull-through or nipple failure requiring an on-road fix to get the rim through your rim brake calipers. I doubt the thing would explode.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

The cheap Chinese wheels are better made than most I've seen. They are all machine made and the machine pulls every spoke down simultaneously to the correct torque. I suppose they are hand checked after that but it would be impossible to hand-spoke those wheels for that price. I broke a carbon rim and they sent me a new one and it took me more than 24 hours to get it straight and round. Aluminum rims on the other hand I can put together in 30 minutes to an hour.