street design complexities

https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the burden on an adjacent street.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, 2 March 2020 10:24:06 UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the burden on an adjacent street.

-- Jay Beattie.

In a small city not all that far from me there used to be a nice bicycle shop that moved to a short side street. The owner used to get ticketed when he was unloading new boxed bicycles and taking them into his store. He'd take a bicycle into the shop and when he came out there was the parking officer writing a ticket. The store owner asked the parking officer how he, the store owner, was supposed to get his stock into the store. The parking officer's reply was that it wasn't his problem but there was a no parking and no stopping sign there.

This was a short side street with little traffic on it. The result of the tickets was that the store owner moved his business to a friendlier city.

Cheers

Am 02.03.2020 um 16:24 schrieb jbeattie:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free
areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the
burden on an adjacent street.

Most (probably all) cities with "car-free" streets have an exemption for
taxis etc as well as an exemption for delivery vehicles for some hours
(typically morning hours).

Shops along non-road premises (like malls) always have their special
delivery arrangements.

On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 7:24:06 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the burden on an adjacent street.

-- Jay Beattie.

The "car free" areas allow trucks for pickup and delivery. In general truck drivers aren't trying to impress anyone in how close they can pass a cyclist.

On 3/2/2020 9:24 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the burden on an adjacent street.

-- Jay Beattie.


Direct personal experience:
I owned a very successful restaurant in a dense urban
neighborhood[1] until The Powers That Be decided to create a
car-free sinkhole for tax dollars with a two year[2]
construction schedule. That proved fatal.


[1]'Where may I park?' 'Right in front at the fire hydrant,
our valet will move it for you.'

[2] Two very long years of dirt, dust, heavy machinery,
piles of gravel and pipe and plywood sheets over trenches
and all the usual clutter.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/2/2020 9:44 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 02.03.2020 um 16:24 schrieb jbeattie:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/


Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in
car-free
areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just
throws the
burden on an adjacent street.

Most (probably all) cities with "car-free" streets have an
exemption for taxis etc as well as an exemption for delivery
vehicles for some hours (typically morning hours).

Shops along non-road premises (like malls) always have their
special delivery arrangements.

You make wild assumptions about power and its abuse.

At our last location, UPS and FedEx drivers were regularly
ticketed while delivering/picking up at our front door.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, 2 March 2020 10:59:20 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/2/2020 9:44 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 02.03.2020 um 16:24 schrieb jbeattie:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/


Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in
car-free
areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just
throws the
burden on an adjacent street.

Most (probably all) cities with "car-free" streets have an
exemption for taxis etc as well as an exemption for delivery
vehicles for some hours (typically morning hours).

Shops along non-road premises (like malls) always have their
special delivery arrangements.

You make wild assumptions about power and its abuse.

At our last location, UPS and FedEx drivers were regularly
ticketed while delivering/picking up at our front door.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I can see that happening. The street I posted about above, was not even a car-free street. Some councils really take to hear the adage, "Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing".

Cheers

On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 7:56:35 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/2/2020 9:24 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/

Complexities is right. Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free areas in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the burden on an adjacent street.

-- Jay Beattie.


Direct personal experience:
I owned a very successful restaurant in a dense urban
neighborhood[1] until The Powers That Be decided to create a
car-free sinkhole for tax dollars with a two year[2]
construction schedule. That proved fatal.


[1]'Where may I park?' 'Right in front at the fire hydrant,
our valet will move it for you.'

[2] Two very long years of dirt, dust, heavy machinery,
piles of gravel and pipe and plywood sheets over trenches
and all the usual clutter.

And to be fair -- or unfair -- I'm living through massive construction in a dense downtown carried out by for-profit operations. Commercial property owners have no problem taking over city blocks and shutting down traffic for years. My office tower is in the process of being flipped, so I'm going to work every day in a construction zone. http://www.nextportland.com/2018/09/...-fargo-center/

Per-SF lease prices are also skyrocketing, and small businesses are being displaced. A Ritz-Carlton Hotel displacing 30 food carts. https://www.opb.org/news/article/ald...on-green-loop/ (great place to get lunch). If I were a bricks-and-mortar business, I'd be more worried about Amazon than a bike facility or being priced out of my building because they want to knock it down for a condo tower or put in a Gucci store.. In the grand scheme of things, there is something almost quaint about a local planning department wanting a pedestrian mall or car-free street.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 3/2/2020 10:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/2/2020 9:24 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 5:21:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/02/2...free-valencia/


Complexities is right.Â* Maybe SMS knows what happens in car-free areas
in terms of pick-up and delivery. I assume it just throws the burden
on an adjacent street.

-- Jay Beattie.


Direct personal experience:
I owned a very successful restaurant in a dense urban neighborhood[1]
until The Powers That Be decided to create a car-free sinkhole for tax
dollars with a two year[2] construction schedule. That proved fatal.


[1]'Where may I park?'Â* 'Right in front at the fire hydrant, our valet
will move it for you.'

[2] Two very long years of dirt, dust, heavy machinery, piles of gravel
and pipe and plywood sheets over trenches and all the usual clutter.

On one hand, I've greatly enjoyed the car-free tourist areas I've
visited in Europe.

OTOH, I know two cities in my riding area that converted certain busy
blocks to car-free areas. In both places, those blocks became deserts
with empty store fronts. Eventually both were re-opened to cars and
parking.

But I think the concept can work well for less trafficked side streets.
I think there's a fundamental human pleasure in just sitting and
watching other people walk around. It's a sadly rare pleasure in most of
America.


--
- Frank Krygowski