School kids rarely ride bicycle anymore, why?

On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more than
walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my siblings.
--
Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places. Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6), junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. My elementary had 150 kids, junior high 400, high school 1200. We had two large parking lots for cars at my high school. Both completely filled. Elementary and junior had bike racks outside. High school did not. Elementary and junior were not exactly in residential areas. But the high school was surrounded by houses where kids lived.

This was 30-35-40 years ago. So well before Frank's "danger, danger, danger" mantra began to frighten bicyclists. So I don't know why I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. I did know of one other kid who rode bicycles recreationally like me.

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:42:31 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more than
walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my siblings.
--
Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places. Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6), junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. My elementary had 150 kids, junior high 400, high school 1200. We had two large parking lots for cars at my high school. Both completely filled. Elementary and junior had bike racks outside. High school did not. Elementary and junior were not exactly in residential areas. But the high school was surrounded by houses where kids lived.

Approximately in that time era I visited my parents in my old home
town. The hottest local discussion was whether or not to build a new
high school.... the question had arisen as there simply wasn't
sufficient space for the students to park their cars at the old high
school.

When I had attended that same high school the rule had been NO CARS
but in a more enlightened age apparently making school children
actually walk to school was, apparently, deemed as cruel and unusual
treatment.


This was 30-35-40 years ago. So well before Frank's "danger, danger, danger" mantra began to frighten bicyclists. So I don't know why I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. I did know of one other kid who rode bicycles recreationally like me.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 3:42:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more than
walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my siblings.
--
Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places. Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6), junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. My elementary had 150 kids, junior high 400, high school 1200. We had two large parking lots for cars at my high school. Both completely filled. Elementary and junior had bike racks outside. High school did not. Elementary and junior were not exactly in residential areas. But the high school was surrounded by houses where kids lived.

This was 30-35-40 years ago. So well before Frank's "danger, danger, danger" mantra began to frighten bicyclists. So I don't know why I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. I did know of one other kid who rode bicycles recreationally like me.

My school days were a generation earlier. When we lived within a mile
of the school, we walked there and back, and friend from school would
walk to visit us. We rode bikes around the neighborhood, but we seldom
used them for transportation, except to a store within a couple
blocks.

Later, we moved four or five miles out into a new suburban development.
There, my friends and I rode absolutely every day it was warm enough.
And that included to nearby stores, the library, etc. And I rode even in dead of winter to deliver a large newspaper route. But again,
never to school. That could have been out of concerns for traffic,
but it could also have been fashion, in the broadest sense. Nobody
did it because, well, nobody did it!

All this was in the era of heavy coaster brake bikes. Bikes were for
kids.

- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 5:50:16 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:42:31 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more than
walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my siblings.
--
Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places. Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6), junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. My elementary had 150 kids, junior high 400, high school 1200. We had two large parking lots for cars at my high school. Both completely filled. Elementary and junior had bike racks outside. High school did not. Elementary and junior were not exactly in residential areas. But the high school was surrounded by houses where kids lived.

Approximately in that time era I visited my parents in my old home
town. The hottest local discussion was whether or not to build a new
high school.... the question had arisen as there simply wasn't
sufficient space for the students to park their cars at the old high
school.

There was an article in _Bicycling_ magazine a few years ago titled
something like "Why Johnnie Can't Ride." It pointed out that there's
some national organization that writes standards for schools. It
demands hundreds of square feet of campus area per student, which
effectively means schools that meet their standards can't be built
close to most residential areas. They need a fresh cornfield.

A few years ago, our school board proposed doing that: Close down
the historic schools that kids walk to, and build a new campus a few
miles out in the cornfields. Voters hammered them, and the board
dropped the plan.

Right now, few kids bike, but lots of kids walk to school, and crowds
of them hang out at the library and a couple cafes after school. But
if the remote campus plan is resurrected some day, kids won't have
those opportunities.

- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 12:42:34 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more than
walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my siblings.
--
Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places. Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6), junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. My elementary had 150 kids, junior high 400, high school 1200. We had two large parking lots for cars at my high school. Both completely filled. Elementary and junior had bike racks outside. High school did not. Elementary and junior were not exactly in residential areas. But the high school was surrounded by houses where kids lived.

This was 30-35-40 years ago. So well before Frank's "danger, danger, danger" mantra began to frighten bicyclists. So I don't know why I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. I did know of one other kid who rode bicycles recreationally like me.

I rode my bike to school a couple of times before it was stolen in grade school. It was never replaced. Through the joy of that first ride on a bike is in my memory still.

On 2020-02-17 12:42, wrote:
On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more
than walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my
siblings. -- Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places.
Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6),
junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid
who rode a bicycle to school. My elementary had 150 kids, junior
high 400, high school 1200. We had two large parking lots for cars
at my high school. Both completely filled. Elementary and junior
had bike racks outside. High school did not. Elementary and junior
were not exactly in residential areas. But the high school was
surrounded by houses where kids lived.


For me it was the 70's and in Germany. You had to be 18 to obtain a
driver's license. Cars were financially out of reach for most and the
small school parking lot was teachers-only.


This was 30-35-40 years ago. So well before Frank's "danger, danger,
danger" mantra began to frighten bicyclists. So I don't know why I
was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. I did know of one
other kid who rode bicycles recreationally like me.


Weird thing is, all the bike paths I used back then are still there and
they even built a few additional ones. The slog along a dangerous route
is eliminated, a section where as a kid I witnessed a cyclist being hit
by a truck. Yet ... way less kids ride. I don't understand it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2/19/2020 1:30 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-02-17 12:42, wrote:
On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more
than walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my
siblings. -- Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places.
Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6),
junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid
who rode a bicycle to school.Â* My elementary had 150 kids, junior
high 400, high school 1200.Â* We had two large parking lots for cars
at my high school.Â* Both completely filled.Â* Elementary and junior
had bike racks outside.Â* High school did not.Â* Elementary and junior
were not exactly in residential areas.Â* But the high school was
surrounded by houses where kids lived.


For me it was the 70's and in Germany. You had to be 18 to obtain a
driver's license. Cars were financially out of reach for most and the
small school parking lot was teachers-only.


This was 30-35-40 years ago.Â* So well before Frank's "danger, danger,
danger" mantra began to frighten bicyclists.Â* So I don't know why I
was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school.Â* I did know of one
other kid who rode bicycles recreationally like me.


Weird thing is, all the bike paths I used back then are still there and
they even built a few additional ones. The slog along a dangerous route
is eliminated, a section where as a kid I witnessed a cyclist being hit
by a truck. Yet ... way less kids ride. I don't understand it.

As I've said before, fashion is weird and powerful. I think it's very
likely that few kids ride just because few other kids ride.

And it could be that if enough "cool kids" started riding, hundreds more
would follow. But fashion is hard to influence or control.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:08 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 5:50:16 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:42:31 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more than
walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my siblings.
--
Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places. Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6), junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. My elementary had 150 kids, junior high 400, high school 1200. We had two large parking lots for cars at my high school. Both completely filled. Elementary and junior had bike racks outside. High school did not. Elementary and junior were not exactly in residential areas. But the high school was surrounded by houses where kids lived.

Approximately in that time era I visited my parents in my old home
town. The hottest local discussion was whether or not to build a new
high school.... the question had arisen as there simply wasn't
sufficient space for the students to park their cars at the old high
school.

There was an article in _Bicycling_ magazine a few years ago titled
something like "Why Johnnie Can't Ride." It pointed out that there's
some national organization that writes standards for schools. It
demands hundreds of square feet of campus area per student, which
effectively means schools that meet their standards can't be built
close to most residential areas. They need a fresh cornfield.

A few years ago, our school board proposed doing that: Close down
the historic schools that kids walk to, and build a new campus a few
miles out in the cornfields. Voters hammered them, and the board
dropped the plan.


In the town I sort of grew up in, my junior high was the old, original high school. On the same block as the old high school, there was the county court house, big church, and city library. They believed in condensing things back in the 1920s-30s when these buildings were built.

About your cornfield school campus. My high school was newer, after the old original now junior high building. It was the cornfield on the edge of town style. But when I attended it had already been surrounded by houses and was definitely in town. Progress I guess. It had acres of grass around it for football practice and the JV football games. Can't remember if track and cross country had its practices on the grass or not. There were two tennis courts nearby too. But everything was sort of at the same place. On the same campus.

Whereas at my junior high, the old original high school. For track practice we had to walk (me ride bike) about 1.5 miles to the old original city track/football stadium to practice or have track meets. And for gym class, on days we went outside, we walked a block down the sidewalk to an open lot a block away. That patch of grass was the only open ground within a mile of the junior high. For gym class 99% of the time we played in the gym, not outside.

So there are positives and negatives about the in town historic school buildings, and the new out in the cornfields school campuses. Both work and don't work.









Right now, few kids bike, but lots of kids walk to school, and crowds
of them hang out at the library and a couple cafes after school. But
if the remote campus plan is resurrected some day, kids won't have
those opportunities.

- Frank Krygowski

On 2/19/2020 5:09 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:08 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 5:50:16 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:42:31 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more than
walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my siblings.
--
Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places. Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6), junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. My elementary had 150 kids, junior high 400, high school 1200. We had two large parking lots for cars at my high school. Both completely filled. Elementary and junior had bike racks outside. High school did not. Elementary and junior were not exactly in residential areas. But the high school was surrounded by houses where kids lived.

Approximately in that time era I visited my parents in my old home
town. The hottest local discussion was whether or not to build a new
high school.... the question had arisen as there simply wasn't
sufficient space for the students to park their cars at the old high
school.

There was an article in _Bicycling_ magazine a few years ago titled
something like "Why Johnnie Can't Ride." It pointed out that there's
some national organization that writes standards for schools. It
demands hundreds of square feet of campus area per student, which
effectively means schools that meet their standards can't be built
close to most residential areas. They need a fresh cornfield.

A few years ago, our school board proposed doing that: Close down
the historic schools that kids walk to, and build a new campus a few
miles out in the cornfields. Voters hammered them, and the board
dropped the plan.


In the town I sort of grew up in, my junior high was the old, original high school. On the same block as the old high school, there was the county court house, big church, and city library. They believed in condensing things back in the 1920s-30s when these buildings were built.

About your cornfield school campus. My high school was newer, after the old original now junior high building. It was the cornfield on the edge of town style. But when I attended it had already been surrounded by houses and was definitely in town. Progress I guess. It had acres of grass around it for football practice and the JV football games. Can't remember if track and cross country had its practices on the grass or not. There were two tennis courts nearby too. But everything was sort of at the same place. On the same campus.

Whereas at my junior high, the old original high school. For track practice we had to walk (me ride bike) about 1.5 miles to the old original city track/football stadium to practice or have track meets. And for gym class, on days we went outside, we walked a block down the sidewalk to an open lot a block away. That patch of grass was the only open ground within a mile of the junior high. For gym class 99% of the time we played in the gym, not outside.

So there are positives and negatives about the in town historic school buildings, and the new out in the cornfields school campuses. Both work and don't work.

In our town, the middle school is the old high school. Attached is one
elementary school. Another elementary is a mile away. Those three are
the ones they wanted to demolish, but it's not for lack of recreation
space. The former high school football field and bleachers are
immediately adjacent, and the next several acres or so are a huge grass
lawn used for sports team practice, an annual fair and general
recreation. All this is dead center in the village.

Their motivation for demolishing was, supposedly, twofold: High
maintenance costs (mostly HVAC), and difficulty running high speed
internet to each classroom. Most citizens judged those to be solvable
problems. (I wouldn't be surprised if wires or cables for internet were
outmoded in five years.)

But I appreciate your reasonable discussion of positives and negatives.
It sometimes seems uncommon here.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:30:04 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-02-17 12:42, wrote:
On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:

When I grew up at least half the high school students living more
than walking distance away commuted by bicycle. So did I and my
siblings. -- Regards, Joerg


You and I must have grown up in different times and places.
Approximately 30-40 years ago when I was in elementary school (K-6),
junior high (7-8-9), and high school (10-11-12), I was the ONLY kid
who rode a bicycle to school. My elementary had 150 kids, junior
high 400, high school 1200. We had two large parking lots for cars
at my high school. Both completely filled. Elementary and junior
had bike racks outside. High school did not. Elementary and junior
were not exactly in residential areas. But the high school was
surrounded by houses where kids lived.


For me it was the 70's and in Germany. You had to be 18 to obtain a
driver's license. Cars were financially out of reach for most and the
small school parking lot was teachers-only.


This was 30-35-40 years ago. So well before Frank's "danger, danger,
danger" mantra began to frighten bicyclists. So I don't know why I
was the ONLY kid who rode a bicycle to school. I did know of one
other kid who rode bicycles recreationally like me.


Weird thing is, all the bike paths I used back then are still there and
they even built a few additional ones. The slog along a dangerous route
is eliminated, a section where as a kid I witnessed a cyclist being hit
by a truck. Yet ... way less kids ride. I don't understand it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

We have a bunch of bicycle activists in the bay area and thanks to them we are getting bicycle paths all over the place. The nice things about those is that it keeps the rookies off of the road.