West Virginia?????

"info." wrote in message
...
What is "regional garb?"

You do realize that they have two seperate teams, a PRO team and an ELITE
AMATEUR team for developing younger riders. They have seperate team kits
for
both -- the green/yellow (similar to last year) for the elite and a new
navy
blue/yellow for the pro. Quite a nice kit, I might add.


I mean their former teams, Wheelworks and Trek/VW.

Funny how you say they have an Elite Amateur Team and a Pro team. Seems to
me like they are both
Elite Amateur teams...

Wade

begs the question...that was debated here (yet not resolved) this
winter...what's the difference anyway? the UCI are a 'euro organization and
the (spirit of) their rules really only apply to the infrastructure of
professional cycling that is in place...IN EUROPE. the west virginia program
simply was an attempt to conform to the rules set forth by the international
governing body. and for the record, the move to have a professional team was,
ironically, sponsor driven. the move was ambitious, to say the least.

Funny how you say they have an Elite Amateur Team and a Pro team. Seems to
me like they are both
Elite Amateur teams...

Wade

"Bensharp13" wrote in message
...
begs the question...that was debated here (yet not resolved) this
winter...what's the difference anyway? the UCI are a 'euro organization
and
the (spirit of) their rules really only apply to the infrastructure of
professional cycling that is in place...IN EUROPE. the west virginia
program
simply was an attempt to conform to the rules set forth by the
international
governing body. and for the record, the move to have a professional team
was,
ironically, sponsor driven. the move was ambitious, to say the least.


I think the difference is a step up in responsibility and formality. The
employees of a D3 should have a little
more recourse should things go south. In terms of races entered etc, I think
the difference is
minimal, but there are a handfull, of what people might consider key races,
that a D3 can enter and an elite team can not.

I have done no research, so this is all assumption. The Team is West
Virginia. I assume that the sponsor money comes from the State of West
Virginia , perhaps through the tourism bureau. Can I also assume that like
my State of Connecticut, the State of WV has budget problems and lots of
programs, departments and employees are circling the bowl right now. Could
this be the root of the money problems with the team. I imagine that very
few of the riders and staff can actually vote in WV so no one is going to
stick their neck out when the discussions comes up about programs to cut. I
would bet a cycling team would go right to the top of the list.

Wade

"Bensharp13" wrote in message
...
begs the question...that was debated here (yet not resolved) this
winter...what's the difference anyway? the UCI are a 'euro organization
and
the (spirit of) their rules really only apply to the infrastructure of
professional cycling that is in place...IN EUROPE. the west virginia
program
simply was an attempt to conform to the rules set forth by the
international
governing body. and for the record, the move to have a professional team
was,
ironically, sponsor driven. the move was ambitious, to say the least.


I think the difference is a step up in responsibility and formality. The
employees of a D3 should have a little
more recourse should things go south.

the operative word here is "should".
D3, in the eyes of the UCI was never meant to be a truly professional level but
rather a developmental program to bridge the progression for young, talented
riders. Belgium does not acknowledge D3 as professional and many other teams,
Rabo, Quick Step, for example have D3 developmental teams to "feed" their D1
teams, like Triple A in baseball here. In the US however, it is a "loophole"
through which a program with a meager budget, can race professionally. In the
end, IMHO, it's bad for the sport domestically. It permits a lack of
professionalism to pervade the pro peloton (sorry for the alliteration).

sorry...i'm rambling...now, when it comes to the "recourse" of which you speak.
the truth of the matter is that, in the case of our team, the money that is
required for the escrow (presumably to protect the riders should the program
turn to dung), MIGHT cover about 1/2 of the team's contract obligations...for a
month. That is of course, after dragging the sponsor's and management's names
through the mud (thus assuring that neither will be associated again with the
UCI, unless you're jw, of course) and a long, drawn out arbitration hearing, to
go through which, most guys can't afford proper representation. Also, please
don't use the term "employee" too loosely. at least with our program, and i
should assume with most D3 teams, we are independently contracted riders, not
employees of the team. no insurance, no benefits, no pension, etc.

In terms of races entered etc, I think
the difference is
minimal, but there are a handfull, of what people might consider key races,
that a D3 can enter and an elite team can not.

I have done no research, so this is all assumption. The Team is West
Virginia. I assume that the sponsor money comes from the State of West
Virginia , perhaps through the tourism bureau. Can I also assume that like
my State of Connecticut, the State of WV has budget problems and lots of
programs, departments and employees are circling the bowl right now. Could
this be the root of the money problems with the team. I imagine that very
few of the riders and staff can actually vote in WV so no one is going to
stick their neck out when the discussions comes up about programs to cut. I
would bet a cycling team would go right to the top of the list.

Wade

some of your assumptions are correct...yes, the team is sponsored by the bureau
of tourism in West Virginia. However, as far as I can tell, all the money that
was promised by THAT sponsor is accounted for but, decidedly later than
anticipated...they are paying in installments, as it were. The problem that
has afflicted this team is two-fold. first, long-time-sponsor, Gomart (with
whom the team has been associated for 11 years) have had their own financial
woes and pulled out in the 11th hour, thus leaving the already poor money
handling (problem two) management with their hands tied, as they had invariably
counted their chickens...

Personally, i have done 8 races this year that I otherwise would not have been
allowed to do (i'm off to NYC for my 9th this weekend) had I not been
professional. IMHO, the headache, for me, a 31 y/o not really improving
anymore, and, more importantly, who has a pretty good handle on where he stands
in the pecking order of the sport, has not been worth it. yeah, racing philly
was great, and the tour of georgia was pretty awesome but...debating on whether
i can afford those trips, getting my teeth kicked in when i can (afford the
trips) and returning home to earn money, however possible, while trying to
maintain some level of fitness (when management can't promise when checks will
arrive) has NOT been worth it.

benjamin

Aren't they getting the prevailing TT3 wage?

You mean the monthly kick in the balls??

Ben, you're not supposed to comment on your own team.
Love,
RB

(Marilyn) wrote in message . com...
You'd have to hear from them.
I believe some are getting monthly checks...
Other than Saturn who should not be a D3, I don't think anyone is
getting rich riding bikes in the states.
It would be great if we could change that.

Why would that be 'great?'

-RJ

"Bensharp13" wrote in message
news:20030801104002.13124.00000551@mb-[honest inside stuff]

Thanks for your post -- very informative.

JT

PS -- consider "paucity" instead of "lack" in your alliteration and
you'll be way over the top...

--
*******************************************
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Actually Bob, sounds like that's what they are getting...that being
nothing. I don't think D3 riders need to be paid a minimum wage. I
think the DI teams are set at something like 40,000 euro.
CH


Bob Schwartz wrote in message ...
Andy Coggan wrote:
"Marilyn" wrote in message
om...

The riders who want to ride for WVA are riding.

But the real question is, are they getting paid?

Aren't they getting the prevailing TT3 wage?

Bob Schwartz

"Ryan Barrett" wrote in message
om...

Aren't they getting the prevailing TT3 wage?

You mean the monthly kick in the balls??

Ben, you're not supposed to comment on your own team.







Dear Receiver of the Monthly-kcik-in-the-balls -


Didn't you just do that? (comment on your own team)

"Bensharp13" wrote in message
...


good post snipped



Mr. Sharp -

Earlier this year, we had an argument here with the infinitely esteemed Greg
Avon of Lemond Fitness. He claimed that going pro was going to take his team
"to the next level".

My position was that the $10k spent on D3 status would be better used to
support riders' living expenses so that they could train more. After all
it's training that makes the rider, not the license, IMO.

Anyways, your post seems to support the position that when trying to
maximize one's talent, it would be better to have living expenses than pro
license (if there is so little $$ that one has to choose one or the other).

Is my impression correct?