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  #311  
Old September 28th 14, 08:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Default Cheap bright tail light

Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Fri, 26 Sep 2014
12:01:29 -0700 the perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Thu, 25 Sep 2014
15:44:48 -0700 the perfect time to write:

James wrote:
On 26/09/14 07:40, Joerg wrote:

[...]

BTW, I have a road bike custom built in Europe (Germany), early 80's,
all high-end stuff back then. It has the front brake on the left.

Good for you. I have used 5 custom made road bikes, all of which had
the front brake on the right.

My guess is that most people's right hand is stronger than their left,
and they have better motor skills to apply the brake better with the
right hand. YMMV.

Where are you living? In the UK? After all, they are driving on the
wrong side of the road :-)

duck and run
As well you might.
We did win at Waterloo you know.

One shall not rest on the laurels :-)


BTW, it just occurred to me that even my Bacchetta has a right front
brake, and has had from new.

That's made in the US.


AFAIK they only make recumbents. I do not know what's customary there
and have never ridden one. But if any regular US bike would be shipped
with reversed brake handles that manufacturer would open themselves to
lawsuits should something happen.


If they shipped it to the UK, they'd have to put the brake levers the
right way round, or it would be illegal for them to sell it.
Even if nothing at all happened.
It's illegal to offer for sale a bicycle with the brakes connected the
wrong way round in the UK.
This explains why right front is the default in most of the world,
since we supplied most of the world with it's bicycles for much of the
20th century.



I think you are clinging to an era long, long gone.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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  #312  
Old September 28th 14, 08:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Cheap bright tail light

Phil W Lee wrote:

[...]

But I'm sure you're aware that the Asian market dwarfs the rest of the
world put together, and that's _all_ right front.


It is not.

http://www.kumocycles.com/uploads/5/...179381.jpg?515

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #313  
Old September 29th 14, 01:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 606
Default Cheap bright tail light

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:33:42 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

Lou Holtman considered Fri, 26 Sep 2014
21:40:50 +0200 the perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee wrote:
Lou Holtman considered Fri, 26 Sep 2014
07:37:25 +0200 the perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee schreef op 25-9-2014 22:45:
Joerg considered Wed, 24 Sep 2014
09:50:07 -0700 the perfect time to write:

wrote:
SLIDING BACK is more dirt motion than road grip.


It is about not going over the bars when you have to reach into the
front brake hard.


... With road contact
motion to side, inside best but go with the flow. Adding a sideways
weight vector should stay a trip over bars into at worst a fly by.


A sideways slide? That sure would be impressive, coming to a stop in a
plume of blue smoke on the road, but I wouldn't dare. Plus a tire might
come off. On mountain bikes it may be needed, like with a friend whose
front brake faded out during the last 100ft of a steep downhill section.
He set it sideways and came to a stop in an impressive dust plume.

If you meant while still going in a straight line that would just make
you sail off the bike a few inches lower but you'd still go off and the
bike will likely endo as well. You can't get much of a CG shift this way.


Last endo on asphalt was at speed after a fine day cycling up and
down a canyon, with cliff, from inexperience with the setup grabbing
brake levers to lift front wheel over a speed bump.


Some European bikes had (have?) the front brake on the right. That can
scare the daylights out of a rider not used to it.

Why on earth would you want it anywhere else?
It's a universal standard for two wheelers, that is only broken in a
very few countries for bicycles, and in none at all for motorcycles.

Switch your brake cables to the correct sides, get used to it now, and
stop using dangerous brake setups.
That way you'll never need to re-learn again.


This is as asking the UK to drive on the right side of the road.
We/I are used to left/front. No need to change that.

Good luck learning to ride a motorcycle.
Putting the front brake on the wrong side just made that far more
difficult.
And in emergency braking, old reflexes are liable to kick in, making a
bad situation worse.


We manage. Riding a motorcycle is a different mindset you have also a
clutch and a throttle to manage. You make it sound as if front/left is rare
on a bicycle or difficult/dangerous in an emergency situation. It is not.


In most of the world, it's beyond rare - it's non-existent.
Remember the Asian market dwarfs the rest of the world put together,
and that's ALL right front (as is Africa, but that's not such a huge
market).


But it is all a tempest in a teapot, isn't it.

Or is there some mechanical, physical or psychological reason for
having a break actuator in any particular place? The bikes that I
first rode the brake actuator built into the pedal system - pedal
forward and the bike went ahead; pedal backward and it stopped.
--
Cheers,

John B.
  #314  
Old September 29th 14, 01:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default Cheap bright tail light

On 29/09/14 10:22, John B. Slocomb wrote:


But it is all a tempest in a teapot, isn't it.

Or is there some mechanical, physical or psychological reason for
having a break actuator in any particular place? The bikes that I
first rode the brake actuator built into the pedal system - pedal
forward and the bike went ahead; pedal backward and it stopped.


The "pedal backward and it stopped" for me was more like slowed with a
skid until stopped.

--
JS

  #315  
Old September 29th 14, 10:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Graham
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Posts: 206
Default Cheap bright tail light


"John B. Slocomb" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:33:42 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:


[snip]

Or is there some mechanical, physical or psychological reason for
having a break actuator in any particular place?


Cheers,

John B.


Living in the UK my first bikes did have the front brake on the right but once I realised the front brake to be the one used most and got round to doing my own setups I changed over to having it on the left. Now all my bikes are set up that way and have been for at least thirty years so my brain is well and truely accustomed to the set up.

The main reasons for my preferences a

1. Separating braking from gear changing when the need for braking and changing down simultaneously is important. Firstly when I had down tube shifters and latterly with brifters. My preference being to brake predominantly with the front brake.

2. I am virtually ambidextrous when it comes to using things like tools but I guess I still have slightly finer control with my right hand so that makes modulating the back brake easier when braking hard to avoid a rear lock up. With modern brakes differential hand strength is not an issue.

3. All my bikes now use Shimano brakes and you get a much better cable line from the left lever to the front brake.

Graham.

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  #316  
Old September 29th 14, 12:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 606
Default Cheap bright tail light

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 10:35:03 +1000, James
wrote:

On 29/09/14 10:22, John B. Slocomb wrote:


But it is all a tempest in a teapot, isn't it.

Or is there some mechanical, physical or psychological reason for
having a break actuator in any particular place? The bikes that I
first rode the brake actuator built into the pedal system - pedal
forward and the bike went ahead; pedal backward and it stopped.


The "pedal backward and it stopped" for me was more like slowed with a
skid until stopped.


Well, my first bike my father bought for me. Third or fourth hand, for
a couple of dollars because the brake didn't work. My first exposure
with mechanics :-). It took a while but I finally got it back together
and it worked!
--
Cheers,

John B.
  #317  
Old September 29th 14, 12:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 606
Default Cheap bright tail light

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 10:50:43 +0100, "Graham"
wrote:


"John B. Slocomb" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:33:42 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:


[snip]

Or is there some mechanical, physical or psychological reason for
having a break actuator in any particular place?


Cheers,

John B.


Living in the UK my first bikes did have the front brake on the right but once I realised the front brake to be the one used most and got round to doing my own setups I changed over to having it on the left. Now all my bikes are set up that way and have been for at least thirty years so my brain is well and truely accustomed to the set up.

The main reasons for my preferences a

1. Separating braking from gear changing when the need for braking and changing down simultaneously is important. Firstly when I had down tube shifters and latterly with brifters. My preference being to brake predominantly with the front brake.

2. I am virtually ambidextrous when it comes to using things like tools but I guess I still have slightly finer control with my right hand so that makes modulating the back brake easier when braking hard to avoid a rear lock up. With modern brakes differential hand strength is not an issue.

3. All my bikes now use Shimano brakes and you get a much better cable line from the left lever to the front brake.

Graham.


All very valid reasons. The first "hand brake" I ever used was on a
motorcycle and it was on the right (a British motorcycle :-) and to
me, that is has been the proper place for it ever since.

--
Cheers,

John B.
  #318  
Old September 30th 14, 09:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Cheap bright tail light

On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:21:17 PM UTC-4, Phil W Lee wrote:
John B. Slocomb considered Mon, 29 Sep 2014

18:22:55 +0700 the perfect time to write:



On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 10:50:43 +0100, "Graham"


wrote:






"John B. Slocomb" wrote in message ...


On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:33:42 +0100, Phil W Lee


wrote:




[snip]




Or is there some mechanical, physical or psychological reason for


having a break actuator in any particular place?




Cheers,




John B.




Living in the UK my first bikes did have the front brake on the right but once I realised the front brake to be the one used most and got round to doing my own setups I changed over to having it on the left. Now all my bikes are set up that way and have been for at least thirty years so my brain is well and truely accustomed to the set up.




The main reasons for my preferences a




1. Separating braking from gear changing when the need for braking and changing down simultaneously is important. Firstly when I had down tube shifters and latterly with brifters. My preference being to brake predominantly with the front brake.




2. I am virtually ambidextrous when it comes to using things like tools but I guess I still have slightly finer control with my right hand so that makes modulating the back brake easier when braking hard to avoid a rear lock up. With modern brakes differential hand strength is not an issue.




3. All my bikes now use Shimano brakes and you get a much better cable line from the left lever to the front brake.




Graham.




All very valid reasons. The first "hand brake" I ever used was on a


motorcycle and it was on the right (a British motorcycle :-) and to


me, that is has been the proper place for it ever since.




It wouldn't have made any difference if the motorcycle hadn't been

British - right hand front is universal on motorcycles.


If the left brake lever to operate the front brake bugs you so much then why just spend the few minutes needed to swap it to the right andf the right rear to the left? You're not going to convince the bicycle industry by posting here that bicycles hould be set up like motorcycles.

I think it's much ado about nothing.

Cheers
  #319  
Old October 1st 14, 09:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Graham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 206
Default Cheap bright tail light


"Sir Ridesalot" wrote in message ...
On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:21:17 PM UTC-4, Phil W Lee wrote:
John B. Slocomb considered Mon, 29 Sep 2014

18:22:55 +0700 the perfect time to write:



On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 10:50:43 +0100, "Graham"


wrote:






"John B. Slocomb" wrote in message ...


On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:33:42 +0100, Phil W Lee


wrote:




[snip]




Or is there some mechanical, physical or psychological reason for


having a break actuator in any particular place?




Cheers,




John B.




Living in the UK my first bikes did have the front brake on the right but once I realised the front brake to be the one used most and got round to doing my own setups I changed over to having it on the left. Now all my bikes are set up that way and have been for at least thirty years so my brain is well and truely accustomed to the set up.




The main reasons for my preferences a




1. Separating braking from gear changing when the need for braking and changing down simultaneously is important. Firstly when I had down tube shifters and latterly with brifters. My preference being to brake predominantly with the front brake.




2. I am virtually ambidextrous when it comes to using things like tools but I guess I still have slightly finer control with my right hand so that makes modulating the back brake easier when braking hard to avoid a rear lock up. With modern brakes differential hand strength is not an issue.




3. All my bikes now use Shimano brakes and you get a much better cable line from the left lever to the front brake.




Graham.




All very valid reasons. The first "hand brake" I ever used was on a


motorcycle and it was on the right (a British motorcycle :-) and to


me, that is has been the proper place for it ever since.




It wouldn't have made any difference if the motorcycle hadn't been

British - right hand front is universal on motorcycles.


If the left brake lever to operate the front brake bugs you so much then why just spend the few minutes needed to swap it to the right andf the right rear to the left? You're not going to convince the bicycle industry by posting here that bicycles hould be set up like motorcycles.


I think it's much ado about nothing.


Cheers


+1 I set out the reasons for my preference above but others might differ and they are more than welcome to do so. As for motor bikes I have never ridden one and never intend to so to me at least his continued arguemnt is totally irrelavent.

Graham.

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  #320  
Old October 1st 14, 12:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 606
Default Cheap bright tail light

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:27:01 +0100, "Graham"
wrote:


"Sir Ridesalot" wrote in message ...
On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:21:17 PM UTC-4, Phil W Lee wrote:
John B. Slocomb considered Mon, 29 Sep 2014

18:22:55 +0700 the perfect time to write:



On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 10:50:43 +0100, "Graham"


wrote:






"John B. Slocomb" wrote in message ...


On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:33:42 +0100, Phil W Lee


wrote:




[snip]




Or is there some mechanical, physical or psychological reason for


having a break actuator in any particular place?




Cheers,




John B.




Living in the UK my first bikes did have the front brake on the right but once I realised the front brake to be the one used most and got round to doing my own setups I changed over to having it on the left. Now all my bikes are set up that way and have been for at least thirty years so my brain is well and truely accustomed to the set up.




The main reasons for my preferences a




1. Separating braking from gear changing when the need for braking and changing down simultaneously is important. Firstly when I had down tube shifters and latterly with brifters. My preference being to brake predominantly with the front brake.




2. I am virtually ambidextrous when it comes to using things like tools but I guess I still have slightly finer control with my right hand so that makes modulating the back brake easier when braking hard to avoid a rear lock up. With modern brakes differential hand strength is not an issue.




3. All my bikes now use Shimano brakes and you get a much better cable line from the left lever to the front brake.




Graham.




All very valid reasons. The first "hand brake" I ever used was on a


motorcycle and it was on the right (a British motorcycle :-) and to


me, that is has been the proper place for it ever since.




It wouldn't have made any difference if the motorcycle hadn't been

British - right hand front is universal on motorcycles.


If the left brake lever to operate the front brake bugs you so much then why just spend the few minutes needed to swap it to the right andf the right rear to the left? You're not going to convince the bicycle industry by posting here that bicycles hould be set up like motorcycles.


I think it's much ado about nothing.


Cheers


+1 I set out the reasons for my preference above but others might differ and they are more than welcome to do so. As for motor bikes I have never ridden one and never intend to so to me at least his continued arguemnt is totally irrelavent.

Graham.


I think that is the whole point. "My preference"

--
Cheers,

John B.
 




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