new bike lane hazard

On Wed, 04 Mar 2020 09:41:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 01:16:21 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:


Economics and perceived wealth. Do you want your kid(s) to be the only
ones in school perceived to come from such a poor family that they
cannot be driven to school? Will your son invite a girl to the Junior
Prom and pick her up on a bicycle? Can you imagine his date, in her
evening dress, side saddle on the top tube with her slippers in her
hand?

My God! The mental trauma of children brought up under those conditions
is almost impossible to imagine.

Sounds like reality of life. A lot of blokes go the fantasy trip and
become slaves to provide that fantasy, then one days it cracks and they
find out they were only renting their partner.

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 05:33:58 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Mar 2020 09:41:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 01:16:21 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:


Economics and perceived wealth. Do you want your kid(s) to be the only
ones in school perceived to come from such a poor family that they
cannot be driven to school? Will your son invite a girl to the Junior
Prom and pick her up on a bicycle? Can you imagine his date, in her
evening dress, side saddle on the top tube with her slippers in her
hand?

My God! The mental trauma of children brought up under those conditions
is almost impossible to imagine.

Sounds like reality of life. A lot of blokes go the fantasy trip and
become slaves to provide that fantasy, then one days it cracks and they
find out they were only renting their partner.

I can't comment on renting partners. I've had mine for about 47 years
now... I assume that if it were going to crack, it would have already.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 4:33:34 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 13:02:38 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/2/2020 10:07 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 2 March 2020 16:58:53 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
Bike lane destroys intellectual capacity of all involved:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/watch-...lane-argument/

Not to mention civility.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Since the motorized unicycle was damaged, Tran should have notified the police then and there.

I get the sense that NYC cyclists need to be careful before engaging the
NYCPD. It sounds like their cops have a heavy tendency to be prejudiced
against bikes.

It seems pretty well documented that after a motorist's fault kills a
bicyclist in a certain location, they tend to set up stings there
against cyclists instead of motorists.

But Frank, if we can get the bicycles off the streets we will have
eliminated 854 bicycle deaths (2018) a year.
That is nearly 15 times the fatalities of the worse mass shooting in
the history of the United States. And it happens every year!
--
John B.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...is-year-2018-2

According to Business Insider (why is a business website/magazine writing about mass shootings?) there were 340 mass shootings and 373 deaths from said shootings in 2018 in the USA. The definition of mass shooting is not exactly settled. Roughly its 4 or more people killed or wounded at about the same time in about the same location. Roughly. Everyone defines it differently. Note, a mass shooting does not mean anyone has to die. Shot and injured is good enough.

Bicycle deaths are about 2.5 times more than mass shooting fatalities. Drunk driving deaths are probably 250 times mass shooting deaths. Mass shootings always get lots of attention. But they are really pathetic when it comes to killing people. Cigarettes were/are killing ten or a hundred times more people. Suicides are the number one use of guns for killing people every year. But that is a good use for guns I guess.

On 3/4/2020 3:42 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 4:33:34 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 13:02:38 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/2/2020 10:07 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 2 March 2020 16:58:53 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
Bike lane destroys intellectual capacity of all involved:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/watch-...lane-argument/

Not to mention civility.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Since the motorized unicycle was damaged, Tran should have notified the police then and there.

I get the sense that NYC cyclists need to be careful before engaging the
NYCPD. It sounds like their cops have a heavy tendency to be prejudiced
against bikes.

It seems pretty well documented that after a motorist's fault kills a
bicyclist in a certain location, they tend to set up stings there
against cyclists instead of motorists.

But Frank, if we can get the bicycles off the streets we will have
eliminated 854 bicycle deaths (2018) a year.
That is nearly 15 times the fatalities of the worse mass shooting in
the history of the United States. And it happens every year!
--
John B.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...is-year-2018-2

According to Business Insider (why is a business website/magazine writing about mass shootings?) there were 340 mass shootings and 373 deaths from said shootings in 2018 in the USA. The definition of mass shooting is not exactly settled. Roughly its 4 or more people killed or wounded at about the same time in about the same location. Roughly. Everyone defines it differently. Note, a mass shooting does not mean anyone has to die. Shot and injured is good enough.

Bicycle deaths are about 2.5 times more than mass shooting fatalities. Drunk driving deaths are probably 250 times mass shooting deaths. Mass shootings always get lots of attention. But they are really pathetic when it comes to killing people. Cigarettes were/are killing ten or a hundred times more people. Suicides are the number one use of guns for killing people every year. But that is a good use for guns I guess.


+1

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 13:42:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 4:33:34 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 13:02:38 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/2/2020 10:07 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 2 March 2020 16:58:53 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
Bike lane destroys intellectual capacity of all involved:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/watch-...lane-argument/

Not to mention civility.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Since the motorized unicycle was damaged, Tran should have notified the police then and there.

I get the sense that NYC cyclists need to be careful before engaging the
NYCPD. It sounds like their cops have a heavy tendency to be prejudiced
against bikes.

It seems pretty well documented that after a motorist's fault kills a
bicyclist in a certain location, they tend to set up stings there
against cyclists instead of motorists.

But Frank, if we can get the bicycles off the streets we will have
eliminated 854 bicycle deaths (2018) a year.
That is nearly 15 times the fatalities of the worse mass shooting in
the history of the United States. And it happens every year!
--
John B.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...is-year-2018-2

According to Business Insider (why is a business website/magazine writing about mass shootings?) there were 340 mass shootings and 373 deaths from said shootings in 2018 in the USA. The definition of mass shooting is not exactly settled. Roughly its 4 or more people killed or wounded at about the same time in about the same location. Roughly. Everyone defines it differently. Note, a mass shooting does not mean anyone has to die. Shot and injured is good enough.

Bicycle deaths are about 2.5 times more than mass shooting fatalities. Drunk driving deaths are probably 250 times mass shooting deaths. Mass shootings always get lots of attention. But they are really pathetic when it comes to killing people. Cigarettes were/are killing ten or a hundred times more people. Suicides are the number one use of guns for killing people every year. But that is a good use for guns I guess.

Yes ciggies killed a lot of people and as a result there is a move to
ban smoking. Mass shootings are vilified and the concept that "if we
ban guns there will be no more mass killings" seems to be quite
popular.

I am merely applying exactly the same reasoning to bicycle deaths,
which you admit are even greater than mass shooting deaths, some 250%
greater, and yet you leap to defend bicycles.

How can that be? Ciggies kill people so cigarettes are bad. Guns kill
people so guns are bad. Bicycles kill people so bicycles are good?

The logic seems a bit awkward.... to say the least.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 3/4/2020 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 13:42:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 4:33:34 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 13:02:38 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/2/2020 10:07 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 2 March 2020 16:58:53 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
Bike lane destroys intellectual capacity of all involved:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/watch-...lane-argument/

Not to mention civility.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Since the motorized unicycle was damaged, Tran should have notified the police then and there.

I get the sense that NYC cyclists need to be careful before engaging the
NYCPD. It sounds like their cops have a heavy tendency to be prejudiced
against bikes.

It seems pretty well documented that after a motorist's fault kills a
bicyclist in a certain location, they tend to set up stings there
against cyclists instead of motorists.

But Frank, if we can get the bicycles off the streets we will have
eliminated 854 bicycle deaths (2018) a year.
That is nearly 15 times the fatalities of the worse mass shooting in
the history of the United States. And it happens every year!
--
John B.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...is-year-2018-2

According to Business Insider (why is a business website/magazine writing about mass shootings?) there were 340 mass shootings and 373 deaths from said shootings in 2018 in the USA. The definition of mass shooting is not exactly settled. Roughly its 4 or more people killed or wounded at about the same time in about the same location. Roughly. Everyone defines it differently. Note, a mass shooting does not mean anyone has to die. Shot and injured is good enough.

Bicycle deaths are about 2.5 times more than mass shooting fatalities. Drunk driving deaths are probably 250 times mass shooting deaths. Mass shootings always get lots of attention. But they are really pathetic when it comes to killing people. Cigarettes were/are killing ten or a hundred times more people. Suicides are the number one use of guns for killing people every year. But that is a good use for guns I guess.

Yes ciggies killed a lot of people and as a result there is a move to
ban smoking. Mass shootings are vilified and the concept that "if we
ban guns there will be no more mass killings" seems to be quite
popular.

I am merely applying exactly the same reasoning to bicycle deaths,
which you admit are even greater than mass shooting deaths, some 250%
greater, and yet you leap to defend bicycles.

How can that be? Ciggies kill people so cigarettes are bad. Guns kill
people so guns are bad. Bicycles kill people so bicycles are good?

The logic seems a bit awkward.... to say the least.

Great potential for a sticker!
"Bicycles don't kill people. Bicycle pilots kill people."

https://tinyurl.com/rp5sqhu
https://tinyurl.com/uk5l6mm
https://tinyurl.com/vz6g58a
https://tinyurl.com/tkxf7ym

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 04 Mar 2020 18:43:31 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/4/2020 6:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 13:42:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 3, 2020 at 4:33:34 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 13:02:38 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/2/2020 10:07 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 2 March 2020 16:58:53 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
Bike lane destroys intellectual capacity of all involved:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/watch-...lane-argument/

Not to mention civility.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Since the motorized unicycle was damaged, Tran should have notified the police then and there.

I get the sense that NYC cyclists need to be careful before engaging the
NYCPD. It sounds like their cops have a heavy tendency to be prejudiced
against bikes.

It seems pretty well documented that after a motorist's fault kills a
bicyclist in a certain location, they tend to set up stings there
against cyclists instead of motorists.

But Frank, if we can get the bicycles off the streets we will have
eliminated 854 bicycle deaths (2018) a year.
That is nearly 15 times the fatalities of the worse mass shooting in
the history of the United States. And it happens every year!
--
John B.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...is-year-2018-2

According to Business Insider (why is a business website/magazine writing about mass shootings?) there were 340 mass shootings and 373 deaths from said shootings in 2018 in the USA. The definition of mass shooting is not exactly settled. Roughly its 4 or more people killed or wounded at about the same time in about the same location. Roughly. Everyone defines it differently. Note, a mass shooting does not mean anyone has to die. Shot and injured is good enough.

Bicycle deaths are about 2.5 times more than mass shooting fatalities. Drunk driving deaths are probably 250 times mass shooting deaths. Mass shootings always get lots of attention. But they are really pathetic when it comes to killing people. Cigarettes were/are killing ten or a hundred times more people. Suicides are the number one use of guns for killing people every year. But that is a good use for guns I guess.

Yes ciggies killed a lot of people and as a result there is a move to
ban smoking. Mass shootings are vilified and the concept that "if we
ban guns there will be no more mass killings" seems to be quite
popular.

I am merely applying exactly the same reasoning to bicycle deaths,
which you admit are even greater than mass shooting deaths, some 250%
greater, and yet you leap to defend bicycles.

How can that be? Ciggies kill people so cigarettes are bad. Guns kill
people so guns are bad. Bicycles kill people so bicycles are good?

The logic seems a bit awkward.... to say the least.

Great potential for a sticker!
"Bicycles don't kill people. Bicycle pilots kill people."

"cycles don't kill people, cyclists kill people ":-)

--
cheers,

John B.

On 3/4/2020 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 13:42:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

According to Business Insider (why is a business website/magazine writing about mass shootings?) there were 340 mass shootings and 373 deaths from said shootings in 2018 in the USA. The definition of mass shooting is not exactly settled. Roughly its 4 or more people killed or wounded at about the same time in about the same location. Roughly. Everyone defines it differently. Note, a mass shooting does not mean anyone has to die. Shot and injured is good enough.

Bicycle deaths are about 2.5 times more than mass shooting fatalities. Drunk driving deaths are probably 250 times mass shooting deaths. Mass shootings always get lots of attention. But they are really pathetic when it comes to killing people. Cigarettes were/are killing ten or a hundred times more people. Suicides are the number one use of guns for killing people every year. But that is a good use for guns I guess.

Yes ciggies killed a lot of people and as a result there is a move to
ban smoking. Mass shootings are vilified and the concept that "if we
ban guns there will be no more mass killings" seems to be quite
popular.

Straw man arguments are also popular. But AFACT, nobody has ever said we
should ban all guns, or that banning guns optimized for rapidly firing
in combat situations will stop all mass killings.


I am merely applying exactly the same reasoning to bicycle deaths,
which you admit are even greater than mass shooting deaths, some 250%
greater, and yet you leap to defend bicycles.

How can that be? Ciggies kill people so cigarettes are bad. Guns kill
people so guns are bad. Bicycles kill people so bicycles are good?

The logic seems a bit awkward.... to say the least.

Logic comes with different levels of sophistication. For a step up, try
listing benefits vs. detriments.

Regarding benefits of free sale of guns optimized for killing people (as
opposed to hunting for meat or trophies, protecting gardens from pests,
etc.) what exactly are the benefits? (And how do other countries manage
without them?)

Benefits: The guns look cool, especially to flabby guys who are afraid
to try for the Reserves.

The guns can shoot lots of bullets really fast. It's fun for some people
to shoot that way.

The guns are easy to customize so you can make them even cooler, in your
own mind.

The guns are a sales gimmick for an industry that sees fewer hunters
buying real long guns every year. (And really, that's probably the big
one.)

Detriments: They tend to be less accurate than many true hunting arms.

They're not as reliable as a bolt action long gun.

You're paying for features that have no real practical use.

They regularly get used to kill bunches of people at once.

The benefit to detriment balance for bicycling is far different. AFAICT
there has never been a study that found bicycling was a net detriment to
health.

Cigarettes fail badly at any benefit vs. detriment tests, which is why
there are serious restriction on who can buy them, how they can be
advertised, where they can be used. There's also massive publicity
against their use.

Motoring deaths? Yes, they are very regrettable. And partly because of
that, weeks of instruction and passing a couple tests are required
before you're allowed to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. And
there is constant work done to reduce those death counts - an endless
succession of design changes and laws.


Finally, like it or not, all deaths are not treated equally. If grandma
dies of a stroke at 95 in a nursing home, the family is typically sad
but accepting. If the same grandma at the same age has her throat slit
in a nursing home, there will be hell to pay, and rightly so. Every
rational person should understand that, although some gun fans do not.

Getting blown away with several other congregation members or fellow
students tends to rank very low on the scale of acceptable deaths.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 05 Mar 2020 07:16:31 +0700, John B. wrote:


Yes ciggies killed a lot of people and as a result there is a move to
ban smoking. Mass shootings are vilified and the concept that "if we ban
guns there will be no more mass killings" seems to be quite popular.

I am merely applying exactly the same reasoning to bicycle deaths, which
you admit are even greater than mass shooting deaths, some 250%
greater, and yet you leap to defend bicycles.

How can that be? Ciggies kill people so cigarettes are bad. Guns kill
people so guns are bad. Bicycles kill people so bicycles are good?

The logic seems a bit awkward.... to say the least.

The logic above is flawed. There woud only be a hndful of people kiled
with a bicyce in the last half century. there would be more who managed
to kill them selves whilst riding a bicycle, but by far people killed
while using a bicycle are overwhelming done by motor vehicle drivers in
their vehicle.

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 21:19:05 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/4/2020 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 13:42:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

According to Business Insider (why is a business website/magazine writing about mass shootings?) there were 340 mass shootings and 373 deaths from said shootings in 2018 in the USA. The definition of mass shooting is not exactly settled. Roughly its 4 or more people killed or wounded at about the same time in about the same location. Roughly. Everyone defines it differently. Note, a mass shooting does not mean anyone has to die. Shot and injured is good enough.

Bicycle deaths are about 2.5 times more than mass shooting fatalities. Drunk driving deaths are probably 250 times mass shooting deaths. Mass shootings always get lots of attention. But they are really pathetic when it comes to killing people. Cigarettes were/are killing ten or a hundred times more people. Suicides are the number one use of guns for killing people every year. But that is a good use for guns I guess.

Yes ciggies killed a lot of people and as a result there is a move to
ban smoking. Mass shootings are vilified and the concept that "if we
ban guns there will be no more mass killings" seems to be quite
popular.

Straw man arguments are also popular. But AFACT, nobody has ever said we
should ban all guns, or that banning guns optimized for rapidly firing
in combat situations will stop all mass killings.


No one here, but in other places it is touted as a great idea.


I am merely applying exactly the same reasoning to bicycle deaths,
which you admit are even greater than mass shooting deaths, some 250%
greater, and yet you leap to defend bicycles.

How can that be? Ciggies kill people so cigarettes are bad. Guns kill
people so guns are bad. Bicycles kill people so bicycles are good?

The logic seems a bit awkward.... to say the least.

Logic comes with different levels of sophistication. For a step up, try
listing benefits vs. detriments.

Regarding benefits of free sale of guns optimized for killing people (as
opposed to hunting for meat or trophies, protecting gardens from pests,
etc.) what exactly are the benefits? (And how do other countries manage
without them?)

I believe that your prejudices are showing.

Benefits: The guns look cool, especially to flabby guys who are afraid
to try for the Reserves.

"Look cool"? Perhaps in your mind but take a look at a pistol
specifically designed and built for Olympic shooting, see:
https://www.pardiniguns.com/fpe/ a far cooler gun. and Cheap too. Only
US$3,195 too :-)


The guns can shoot lots of bullets really fast. It's fun for some people
to shoot that way.

Yup. That's why the Chinese braid hundreds of firecrackers into a long
string. Particularly good when you launch a new boat. That long burst
of noise is certain to scare any evil spirits away from the boat,

The guns are easy to customize so you can make them even cooler, in your
own mind.

Frank, any gun can be customized and I had a pretty good business
going doing just that. If you really want to get into the gun
customizing talk to some trap shooters. We had one customer that
brought his shotgun in every Monday and we, make the modification and
he'd pick it up on Saturday, He'd shoot Sunday and have it back in the
shop the next Monday.

Ever hear of a gun modified so that the gun fires when the trigger is
released? Not when it is pulled but when it is released? Called
(surprisingly) a "release trigger", and not at all rare in the trap
shooting field.

The guns are a sales gimmick for an industry that sees fewer hunters
buying real long guns every year. (And really, that's probably the big
one.)

I believe that you are way off the truth in making that statement.
Read "Soldier of Fortune" to understand what these "whacko's" are
thinking.


Detriments: They tend to be less accurate than many true hunting arms.

Actually not. The AR-15 type is used in target shooting. BCM sells an
AR-15 type that shoots Minute of angle groups at 100 yards right out
of the box, and they sell a little better model that shuts sub MOA
groups.

They're not as reliable as a bolt action long gun.

You are playing with words. I don't know whether you remember but in
the Vietnam days there was a lot of hullabaloo about AR-15's
malfunction. I asked a Special Forces Armorer about it - they did the
final tests - and he told me that they had never, and he emphasized
"never" had a malfunction.

A study made by the Army some after all the newspapers had print the
:news" that the AR malfunctioned found that in every case of
malfunction the rifle had not been cleaned. In several cases, even
after a malfunction in a combat situation the gun was not cleaned.


You're paying for features that have no real practical use.

They regularly get used to kill bunches of people at once.


So is dynamite, and for that matter I believe that the largest mass
killing in the U.S., disregarding 9/11, was accomplished with diesel
oil and fertilizer.


The benefit to detriment balance for bicycling is far different. AFAICT
there has never been a study that found bicycling was a net detriment to
health.

Cigarettes fail badly at any benefit vs. detriment tests, which is why
there are serious restriction on who can buy them, how they can be
advertised, where they can be used. There's also massive publicity
against their use.

Motoring deaths? Yes, they are very regrettable. And partly because of
that, weeks of instruction and passing a couple tests are required
before you're allowed to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. And
there is constant work done to reduce those death counts - an endless
succession of design changes and laws.


Finally, like it or not, all deaths are not treated equally. If grandma
dies of a stroke at 95 in a nursing home, the family is typically sad
but accepting. If the same grandma at the same age has her throat slit
in a nursing home, there will be hell to pay, and rightly so. Every
rational person should understand that, although some gun fans do not.

Getting blown away with several other congregation members or fellow
students tends to rank very low on the scale of acceptable deaths.

While running a red light, or stop sign and being crushed by a 10
wheel truck would be?

But isn't this a lot of verbiage simply to obscure the fact bicycle
deaths outnumber mass shootings deaths by a factor of 250%?
--

Cheers,

John B.