#21
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Gravel bikes
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 2:52:38 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 11:14:59 PM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 5:53:08 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-5, AK wrote: What do you think of a gravel bike? Does anyone have one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC_xFpg_UmA Andy I've done a few rides recently on gravel roads. They were fun with the group. Not sure riding them by myself would be any fun. I used a Nashbar cyclocross bike. Heavy steel. 38mm tires. STI ten speed. Cantilever. Shimano 105 rear derailleur died at the end of one ride and had to be replaced. So I'm not sure gravel riding is good or not. Not sure what a gravel bike means. I've ridden many different bikes on gravel roads just fine. Most gravel roads have two or three perfectly smooth strips on them that you ride on. Much smoother than many potholed roads. Less wear and tear on the bike. But you do have to run over loose rocks when making turns. Those are the rough pothole portions of gravel roads. Pros ride the cobblestone classics each year on road racing bikes converted to gravel by putting huge 28mm tires on them. They ride 150 miles at 30 mph. Out of curiosity "Shimano 105 rear derailleur died" What actually happened? Cheers, John B. It stopped shifting with the STI levers. I replaced it with another new 105 long cage rear derailleur and the shifting works perfectly again. It happened a few months ago so I cannot remember exactly what happened. But shifting was bad, not precise, move the STI one click and the derailleur did not shift the chain. Move it two or three clicks and it would sort of move the chain. Everything imprecise. New derailleur, no change to cable, and everything shifts perfectly again. So I am pretty sure it was the derailleur, not the cable or shifters. Perfect shifting for several years before the one gravel ride. End of gravel ride bad shifting. New derailleur perfect shifting again with no other changes. So I assume the 20 miles of gravel riding killed the derailleur somehow. A RD being a spring loaded lever, what can possibly went wrong. What could have happened is a cracked pulley cage plate (inner or outer). My brother had that once causing also weird shifting. Replacing the cracked outer cage plate was less than 10 euro: https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sh...8-grey-GS-type Lou I've gotten used to the Di2 right lever but I keep having to use trial and error on the left. I took my Campy 10 speed bike out the other day on a climbing ride and it was sure nice not having to think about any shifting. |
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#22
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Gravel bikes
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:49:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/30/2020 11:35 AM, AMuzi wrote: The most common failure being "merge with spokes". I've seen such things in real life. On two different occasions, I fixed similar problems for other riders so they could finish their rides, with perhaps fewer gears than they had at the start. But that sort of failure can happen anywhere if the derailleur is adjusted badly enough. It doesn't have anything to do with gravel riding. I wondered if Russel's derailleur tried to swallow a rock. Or a stick. Very common here on bush tracks. Gum trees shed leaves and branches copiously when heat stressed and you have to be carefull you don't flick a bit into the spokes, etc. |
#23
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Gravel bikes
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:14:56 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 5:53:08 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-5, AK wrote: What do you think of a gravel bike? Does anyone have one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC_xFpg_UmA Andy I've done a few rides recently on gravel roads. They were fun with the group. Not sure riding them by myself would be any fun. I used a Nashbar cyclocross bike. Heavy steel. 38mm tires. STI ten speed. Cantilever. Shimano 105 rear derailleur died at the end of one ride and had to be replaced. So I'm not sure gravel riding is good or not. Not sure what a gravel bike means. I've ridden many different bikes on gravel roads just fine. Most gravel roads have two or three perfectly smooth strips on them that you ride on. Much smoother than many potholed roads. Less wear and tear on the bike. But you do have to run over loose rocks when making turns. Those are the rough pothole portions of gravel roads. Pros ride the cobblestone classics each year on road racing bikes converted to gravel by putting huge 28mm tires on them. They ride 150 miles at 30 mph. Out of curiosity "Shimano 105 rear derailleur died" What actually happened? Cheers, John B. It stopped shifting with the STI levers. I replaced it with another new 105 long cage rear derailleur and the shifting works perfectly again. It happened a few months ago so I cannot remember exactly what happened. But shifting was bad, not precise, move the STI one click and the derailleur did not shift the chain. Move it two or three clicks and it would sort of move the chain. Everything imprecise. New derailleur, no change to cable, and everything shifts perfectly again. So I am pretty sure it was the derailleur, not the cable or shifters. Perfect shifting for several years before the one gravel ride. End of gravel ride bad shifting. New derailleur perfect shifting again with no other changes. So I assume the 20 miles of gravel riding killed the derailleur somehow. Thanks. Cheers, John B. |
#24
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Gravel bikes
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 4:52:38 PM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 11:14:59 PM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 5:53:08 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-5, AK wrote: What do you think of a gravel bike? Does anyone have one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC_xFpg_UmA Andy I've done a few rides recently on gravel roads. They were fun with the group. Not sure riding them by myself would be any fun. I used a Nashbar cyclocross bike. Heavy steel. 38mm tires. STI ten speed. Cantilever. Shimano 105 rear derailleur died at the end of one ride and had to be replaced. So I'm not sure gravel riding is good or not. Not sure what a gravel bike means. I've ridden many different bikes on gravel roads just fine. Most gravel roads have two or three perfectly smooth strips on them that you ride on. Much smoother than many potholed roads. Less wear and tear on the bike. But you do have to run over loose rocks when making turns. Those are the rough pothole portions of gravel roads. Pros ride the cobblestone classics each year on road racing bikes converted to gravel by putting huge 28mm tires on them. They ride 150 miles at 30 mph. Out of curiosity "Shimano 105 rear derailleur died" What actually happened? Cheers, John B. It stopped shifting with the STI levers. I replaced it with another new 105 long cage rear derailleur and the shifting works perfectly again. It happened a few months ago so I cannot remember exactly what happened. But shifting was bad, not precise, move the STI one click and the derailleur did not shift the chain. Move it two or three clicks and it would sort of move the chain. Everything imprecise. New derailleur, no change to cable, and everything shifts perfectly again. So I am pretty sure it was the derailleur, not the cable or shifters. Perfect shifting for several years before the one gravel ride. End of gravel ride bad shifting. New derailleur perfect shifting again with no other changes. So I assume the 20 miles of gravel riding killed the derailleur somehow. A RD being a spring loaded lever, what can possibly went wrong. What could have happened is a cracked pulley cage plate (inner or outer). My brother had that once causing also weird shifting. Replacing the cracked outer cage plate was less than 10 euro: https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sh...8-grey-GS-type Lou I went down to the basement and cleaned up, looked at the bad Shimano 105 rear derailleur. I took the plate and pulleys off. No broken cage/plate. Pulleys and their bushings looked OK. About the only thing that might be wrong is the spring to pull the cage backwards was not really consistent over the whole travel. Can't remember if all rear derailleurs have that varying spring tension for pulling the pulley cage backwards. The side to side spring in the derailleur was strong and consistent. No problem with it. Everything looks OK on the derailleur. It still looks new. And it sort of is new. But it died on me at the end of the gravel ride. Would not shift. And the new 105 long cage derailleur I installed now works perfectly. So.... |
#25
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Gravel bikes
On 7/31/2020 12:19 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:14:56 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 5:53:08 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-5, AK wrote: What do you think of a gravel bike? Does anyone have one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC_xFpg_UmA Andy I've done a few rides recently on gravel roads. They were fun with the group. Not sure riding them by myself would be any fun. I used a Nashbar cyclocross bike. Heavy steel. 38mm tires. STI ten speed. Cantilever. Shimano 105 rear derailleur died at the end of one ride and had to be replaced. So I'm not sure gravel riding is good or not. Not sure what a gravel bike means. I've ridden many different bikes on gravel roads just fine. Most gravel roads have two or three perfectly smooth strips on them that you ride on. Much smoother than many potholed roads. Less wear and tear on the bike. But you do have to run over loose rocks when making turns. Those are the rough pothole portions of gravel roads. Pros ride the cobblestone classics each year on road racing bikes converted to gravel by putting huge 28mm tires on them. They ride 150 miles at 30 mph. Out of curiosity "Shimano 105 rear derailleur died" What actually happened? Cheers, John B. It stopped shifting with the STI levers. I replaced it with another new 105 long cage rear derailleur and the shifting works perfectly again. It happened a few months ago so I cannot remember exactly what happened. But shifting was bad, not precise, move the STI one click and the derailleur did not shift the chain. Move it two or three clicks and it would sort of move the chain. Everything imprecise. New derailleur, no change to cable, and everything shifts perfectly again. So I am pretty sure it was the derailleur, not the cable or shifters. Perfect shifting for several years before the one gravel ride. End of gravel ride bad shifting. New derailleur perfect shifting again with no other changes. So I assume the 20 miles of gravel riding killed the derailleur somehow. I'm still curious. A rear derailleur is not a complicated machine. ISTM a specific cause could be identified. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#27
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Gravel bikes
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 11:09:31 PM UTC+2, AK wrote: What do you think of a gravel bike? Does anyone have one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC_xFpg_UmA Andy I fully agree with their statements. From the moment I bought a cross bike never touched my FS mountain bike. So much more fun. Same goes for my gravel bike which is more capable on road than my cross bike. Sold both of my ATB; FS and hardtail. Lou Lou Probably worth noting that they where being deliberately provocative, don’t get me wrong it’s certainly true that gravel bikes taken off road do remind one of MTB of the 80/90’s but there is quite a lot of clear sea between the two. I’ve had two first was nominally a CX bike, but like a number of them it clearly wasn’t intended for racing but riding in the woods etc. My 2nd is my workhorse it’s happy on a club run or embarrassing MTB’s up a Gravel climb. I use it to explore and knit together interesting trails/farm tracks and what not. My best bike is my MTB which is lovely beast but Is overkill for a lot of this. Roger Merriman |
#28
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Gravel bikes
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:10:15 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 7/31/2020 2:34 AM, wrote: On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 4:52:38 PM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote: On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 11:14:59 PM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 5:53:08 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-5, AK wrote: What do you think of a gravel bike? Does anyone have one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC_xFpg_UmA Andy I've done a few rides recently on gravel roads. They were fun with the group. Not sure riding them by myself would be any fun. I used a Nashbar cyclocross bike. Heavy steel. 38mm tires. STI ten speed. Cantilever. Shimano 105 rear derailleur died at the end of one ride and had to be replaced. So I'm not sure gravel riding is good or not. Not sure what a gravel bike means. I've ridden many different bikes on gravel roads just fine. Most gravel roads have two or three perfectly smooth strips on them that you ride on. Much smoother than many potholed roads. Less wear and tear on the bike. But you do have to run over loose rocks when making turns. Those are the rough pothole portions of gravel roads. Pros ride the cobblestone classics each year on road racing bikes converted to gravel by putting huge 28mm tires on them. They ride 150 miles at 30 mph. Out of curiosity "Shimano 105 rear derailleur died" What actually happened? Cheers, John B. It stopped shifting with the STI levers. I replaced it with another new 105 long cage rear derailleur and the shifting works perfectly again. It happened a few months ago so I cannot remember exactly what happened. But shifting was bad, not precise, move the STI one click and the derailleur did not shift the chain. Move it two or three clicks and it would sort of move the chain. Everything imprecise. New derailleur, no change to cable, and everything shifts perfectly again. So I am pretty sure it was the derailleur, not the cable or shifters. Perfect shifting for several years before the one gravel ride. End of gravel ride bad shifting. New derailleur perfect shifting again with no other changes. So I assume the 20 miles of gravel riding killed the derailleur somehow. A RD being a spring loaded lever, what can possibly went wrong. What could have happened is a cracked pulley cage plate (inner or outer). My brother had that once causing also weird shifting. Replacing the cracked outer cage plate was less than 10 euro: https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sh...8-grey-GS-type Lou I went down to the basement and cleaned up, looked at the bad Shimano 105 rear derailleur. I took the plate and pulleys off. No broken cage/plate. Pulleys and their bushings looked OK. About the only thing that might be wrong is the spring to pull the cage backwards was not really consistent over the whole travel. Can't remember if all rear derailleurs have that varying spring tension for pulling the pulley cage backwards. The side to side spring in the derailleur was strong and consistent. No problem with it. Everything looks OK on the derailleur. It still looks new. And it sort of is new. But it died on me at the end of the gravel ride. Would not shift. And the new 105 long cage derailleur I installed now works perfectly. So... Odd. I had a rear derailleur whose jockey pulley spring failed. But IIRC the symptom was no takeup of chain slack. The shift cable still moved the derailleur side to side, so that main part of shifting action worked. When I disassembled, the jockey pulley's torsion spring had broken at its end. It was a close wound helical spring made of square wire, ending in a short axial tang that plugged into a hole or slot. The tang had broken off at the 90 degree angle to the main coil. I just bent a few millimeters of the coil out to make a new tang, and all was well. That pivot motion should be smooth and consistent, AFAIK. I wonder if gravel dust, etc. jammed that pivot? Would cleaning and lubricating fix it? I have seen a rear derailer that the spring that moves the cage sideways was weak and the bike shifted normally when the cable was pulling the derailer and didn't shift as well when the shifter moved under spring power. But, if I recollect that was a no name 7 speed derailer on a $100 bike. -- Cheers, John B. |
#29
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Gravel bikes
On 7/31/2020 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:10:15 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/31/2020 2:34 AM, wrote: On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 4:52:38 PM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote: On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 11:14:59 PM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 5:53:08 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-5, AK wrote: What do you think of a gravel bike? Does anyone have one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC_xFpg_UmA Andy I've done a few rides recently on gravel roads. They were fun with the group. Not sure riding them by myself would be any fun. I used a Nashbar cyclocross bike. Heavy steel. 38mm tires. STI ten speed. Cantilever. Shimano 105 rear derailleur died at the end of one ride and had to be replaced. So I'm not sure gravel riding is good or not. Not sure what a gravel bike means. I've ridden many different bikes on gravel roads just fine. Most gravel roads have two or three perfectly smooth strips on them that you ride on. Much smoother than many potholed roads. Less wear and tear on the bike. But you do have to run over loose rocks when making turns. Those are the rough pothole portions of gravel roads. Pros ride the cobblestone classics each year on road racing bikes converted to gravel by putting huge 28mm tires on them. They ride 150 miles at 30 mph. Out of curiosity "Shimano 105 rear derailleur died" What actually happened? Cheers, John B. It stopped shifting with the STI levers. I replaced it with another new 105 long cage rear derailleur and the shifting works perfectly again. It happened a few months ago so I cannot remember exactly what happened. But shifting was bad, not precise, move the STI one click and the derailleur did not shift the chain. Move it two or three clicks and it would sort of move the chain. Everything imprecise. New derailleur, no change to cable, and everything shifts perfectly again. So I am pretty sure it was the derailleur, not the cable or shifters. Perfect shifting for several years before the one gravel ride. End of gravel ride bad shifting. New derailleur perfect shifting again with no other changes. So I assume the 20 miles of gravel riding killed the derailleur somehow. A RD being a spring loaded lever, what can possibly went wrong. What could have happened is a cracked pulley cage plate (inner or outer). My brother had that once causing also weird shifting. Replacing the cracked outer cage plate was less than 10 euro: https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sh...8-grey-GS-type Lou I went down to the basement and cleaned up, looked at the bad Shimano 105 rear derailleur. I took the plate and pulleys off. No broken cage/plate. Pulleys and their bushings looked OK. About the only thing that might be wrong is the spring to pull the cage backwards was not really consistent over the whole travel. Can't remember if all rear derailleurs have that varying spring tension for pulling the pulley cage backwards. The side to side spring in the derailleur was strong and consistent. No problem with it. Everything looks OK on the derailleur. It still looks new. And it sort of is new. But it died on me at the end of the gravel ride. Would not shift. And the new 105 long cage derailleur I installed now works perfectly. So... Odd. I had a rear derailleur whose jockey pulley spring failed. But IIRC the symptom was no takeup of chain slack. The shift cable still moved the derailleur side to side, so that main part of shifting action worked. When I disassembled, the jockey pulley's torsion spring had broken at its end. It was a close wound helical spring made of square wire, ending in a short axial tang that plugged into a hole or slot. The tang had broken off at the 90 degree angle to the main coil. I just bent a few millimeters of the coil out to make a new tang, and all was well. That pivot motion should be smooth and consistent, AFAIK. I wonder if gravel dust, etc. jammed that pivot? Would cleaning and lubricating fix it? I have seen a rear derailer that the spring that moves the cage sideways was weak and the bike shifted normally when the cable was pulling the derailer and didn't shift as well when the shifter moved under spring power. But, if I recollect that was a no name 7 speed derailer on a $100 bike. -- Cheers, John B. Yes, I had the same - a SunTour Cyclone GT (i.e. the long-cage, original cyclone version). The parallelogram return spring did, um, /something/. I never figured out if part of it had broken off or if it had just gone soft - neither of which really make sense to me. Even with the derailleur taken completely off the bike it was clear that the return spring just didn't have the oomph required to do its job. I believe it was a coil spring with ends that extended out from the coil, wrapped around one of the parallelogram pivots; the ends pushed against adjacent sides of the parallelogram. Couldn't really see it clearly without pushing out the press-fit pivot, so I never did figure out how it "failed." Mark J. |
#30
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Gravel bikes
On 7/31/2020 10:05 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 7/31/2020 5:26 PM, John B. wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:10:15 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/31/2020 2:34 AM, wrote: On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 4:52:38 PM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote: On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 11:14:59 PM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 5:53:08 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-5, AK wrote: What do you think of a gravel bike? Does anyone have one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC_xFpg_UmA Andy I've done a few rides recently on gravel roads. They were fun with the group. Not sure riding them by myself would be any fun. I used a Nashbar cyclocross bike. Heavy steel. 38mm tires. STI ten speed. Cantilever. Shimano 105 rear derailleur died at the end of one ride and had to be replaced. So I'm not sure gravel riding is good or not. Not sure what a gravel bike means. I've ridden many different bikes on gravel roads just fine. Most gravel roads have two or three perfectly smooth strips on them that you ride on. Much smoother than many potholed roads. Less wear and tear on the bike. But you do have to run over loose rocks when making turns. Those are the rough pothole portions of gravel roads. Pros ride the cobblestone classics each year on road racing bikes converted to gravel by putting huge 28mm tires on them. They ride 150 miles at 30 mph. Out of curiosity "Shimano 105 rear derailleur died" What actually happened? Cheers, John B. It stopped shifting with the STI levers. I replaced it with another new 105 long cage rear derailleur and the shifting works perfectly again. It happened a few months ago so I cannot remember exactly what happened. But shifting was bad, not precise, move the STI one click and the derailleur did not shift the chain. Move it two or three clicks and it would sort of move the chain. Everything imprecise. New derailleur, no change to cable, and everything shifts perfectly again. So I am pretty sure it was the derailleur, not the cable or shifters. Perfect shifting for several years before the one gravel ride. End of gravel ride bad shifting. New derailleur perfect shifting again with no other changes. So I assume the 20 miles of gravel riding killed the derailleur somehow. A RD being a spring loaded lever, what can possibly went wrong. What could have happened is a cracked pulley cage plate (inner or outer). My brother had that once causing also weird shifting. Replacing the cracked outer cage plate was less than 10 euro: https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sh...8-grey-GS-type Lou I went down to the basement and cleaned up, looked at the bad Shimano 105 rear derailleur. I took the plate and pulleys off. No broken cage/plate. Pulleys and their bushings looked OK. About the only thing that might be wrong is the spring to pull the cage backwards was not really consistent over the whole travel. Can't remember if all rear derailleurs have that varying spring tension for pulling the pulley cage backwards. The side to side spring in the derailleur was strong and consistent. No problem with it. Everything looks OK on the derailleur. It still looks new. And it sort of is new. But it died on me at the end of the gravel ride. Would not shift. And the new 105 long cage derailleur I installed now works perfectly. So... Odd. I had a rear derailleur whose jockey pulley spring failed. But IIRC the symptom was no takeup of chain slack. The shift cable still moved the derailleur side to side, so that main part of shifting action worked. When I disassembled, the jockey pulley's torsion spring had broken at its end. It was a close wound helical spring made of square wire, ending in a short axial tang that plugged into a hole or slot. The tang had broken off at the 90 degree angle to the main coil. I just bent a few millimeters of the coil out to make a new tang, and all was well. That pivot motion should be smooth and consistent, AFAIK. I wonder if gravel dust, etc. jammed that pivot? Would cleaning and lubricating fix it? I have seen a rear derailer that the spring that moves the cage sideways was weak and the bike shifted normally when the cable was pulling the derailer and didn't shift as well when the shifter moved under spring power. But, if I recollect that was a no name 7 speed derailer on a $100 bike. -- Cheers, John B. Yes, I had the same - a SunTour Cyclone GT (i.e. the long-cage, original cyclone version). The parallelogram return spring did, um, /something/. I never figured out if part of it had broken off or if it had just gone soft - neither of which really make sense to me. Even with the derailleur taken completely off the bike it was clear that the return spring just didn't have the oomph required to do its job. I believe it was a coil spring with ends that extended out from the coil, wrapped around one of the parallelogram pivots; the ends pushed against adjacent sides of the parallelogram. Couldn't really see it clearly without pushing out the press-fit pivot, so I never did figure out how it "failed." Mark J. Nothing smaller than 'body assembly'[1] is shown in the drawing and I can't recall the body return spring format for those. However similar designs of the era can bind when smacked and sometimes respond well to working the two end castings a bit until the roll pins are freed up. It's more likely that than an actual spring failure IME. [1]Same body for both long & short models -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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