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#21
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 3:20:41 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 5:10:12 AM UTC-8, wrote: On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 12:37:44 AM UTC+1, pH wrote: On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 11:38:01 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 5:55:17 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote: snip I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". pH A follow-up to my own post... The electric assist bike now lives up in Napa to use when I'm visiting my Mom. I still ride "normal" bikes in general, my good old '80s Cannondale touring bike and a recumbent Easy Racer. When I rode to Trader Joes today I saw only 1 assist bike, a mid drive. Lots of "normal" bikes today. I'll try to keep a count of what I see over a week and report later. pH When I would sit on the sidewalk on a nice day along a popular route about 7 out of 10 non road bikes or ATB bikes that pass are electric assisted.. It is an epidemic here in the Netherlands. So to the question 'does E-bikes expand cycling?' Definitely! eBiking expands eBiking which resembles cycling but isn't. For many, it's just a way of beating traffic -- and all you have to do is move your legs around, simulate cylcing, and you can go 25-30mph in a bike lane -- up hill.. Half the eBikes I see around here are basically eMotorcycles and should be in traffic and not in bike lanes. -- Jay Beattie. Most of E bikes here respect the 25 km/hr E assist limit. The people however aren't used going 25 km/hr but are also thrilled by that speed with no effort and do stupid things hence the increase in accidents involving E bikes.. |
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#22
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 09:20:41 UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 5:10:12 AM UTC-8, wrote: On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 12:37:44 AM UTC+1, pH wrote: On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 11:38:01 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 5:55:17 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote: snip I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". pH A follow-up to my own post... The electric assist bike now lives up in Napa to use when I'm visiting my Mom. I still ride "normal" bikes in general, my good old '80s Cannondale touring bike and a recumbent Easy Racer. When I rode to Trader Joes today I saw only 1 assist bike, a mid drive. Lots of "normal" bikes today. I'll try to keep a count of what I see over a week and report later. pH When I would sit on the sidewalk on a nice day along a popular route about 7 out of 10 non road bikes or ATB bikes that pass are electric assisted.. It is an epidemic here in the Netherlands. So to the question 'does E-bikes expand cycling?' Definitely! eBiking expands eBiking which resembles cycling but isn't. For many, it's just a way of beating traffic -- and all you have to do is move your legs around, simulate cylcing, and you can go 25-30mph in a bike lane -- up hill.. Half the eBikes I see around here are basically eMotorcycles and should be in traffic and not in bike lanes. -- Jay Beattie. Ditto 1000%! Cheers |
#23
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 13:00:48 UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 11/3/2019 6:20 AM, jbeattie wrote: snip eBiking expands eBiking which resembles cycling but isn't. For many, it's just a way of beating traffic -- and all you have to do is move your legs around, simulate cylcing, and you can go 25-30mph in a bike lane -- up hill. Half the eBikes I see around here are basically eMotorcycles and should be in traffic and not in bike lanes. True. They are taking advantage of the bicycle infrastructure to avoid congestion. But as long as they aren't going 25MPH on an MUP, I think that it's okay. The problem is that many of them, at least here, are doing a very high rate of speed on MUPs; or even on sidewalks as I've seen a few do.. Cheers |
#24
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
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#25
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:
(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at high rpm.) This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates. The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/ the usual 18650 battery format technology. Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now. A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian company called "Elation". 250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business. ....... I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same laws across tha nation, (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals. That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks. |
#26
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote: (Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at high rpm.) This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates. Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the "transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be utilized by the machinery. The problem is solvable :-) Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/ The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/ the usual 18650 battery format technology. Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now. A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian company called "Elation". 250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business. ...... I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same laws across tha nation, (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals. That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks. -- cheers, John B. |
#27
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote: (Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at high rpm.) This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates. Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the "transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be utilized by the machinery. The problem is solvable :-) Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/ The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/ the usual 18650 battery format technology. Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now. A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian company called "Elation". 250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business. ...... I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same laws across tha nation, (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals. That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks. -- cheers, John B. In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle. Cheers |
#28
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 19:00:48 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote: (Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at high rpm.) This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates. Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the "transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be utilized by the machinery. The problem is solvable :-) Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/ The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/ the usual 18650 battery format technology. Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now. A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian company called "Elation". 250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business. ...... I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same laws across tha nation, (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals. That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks. -- cheers, John B. In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle. Cheers There have been a number of motors that could be fitted to a bicycle and invarialbly, as you say, they turned the human powered bicycle into a motor cycle. Having lived in a number of developing countries I have observed a the exact same pattern, or development, from walking to driving a car and I suspect that it is human nature as the exact same thing happens everywhere I've been. Walking to bicycling, bicycle to small motorcycle, small motorcycle to large motorcycle, large motorcycle to auto. No body wants to walk if they can get a ride :-) -- cheers, John B. |
#29
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Mon, 04 Nov 2019 09:27:11 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote: (Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at high rpm.) This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates. Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the "transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be utilized by the machinery. The problem is solvable :-) Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/ The marketing and price(no doubt) of a Jaguar combined with the performance and utility of the Trabant. Woops, it has no utility except to show your gullability. What's the book on life of the website? |
#30
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On 11/3/2019 7:38 PM, John B. wrote:
snip Having lived in a number of developing countries I have observed a the exact same pattern, or development, from walking to driving a car and I suspect that it is human nature as the exact same thing happens everywhere I've been. Walking to bicycling, bicycle to small motorcycle, small motorcycle to large motorcycle, large motorcycle to auto. No body wants to walk if they can get a ride :-) Until the developing country develops the typical problems with automobiles. Traffic congestion. Cost and availability of parking. Cost of insurance. Lack of mass transit infrastructure. Being able to take advantage of bicycle infrastructure, including bikes on transit, with essentially what is a limited-range motorcycle, can be extremely useful. |
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