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#22
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New Ohio law: Drivers leave 3-foot gap to pass bicyclists
On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:12:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/21/2017 7:03 PM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:58:51 -0700 (PDT), Barry Beams wrote: On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 8:08:07 AM UTC-7, Garrison Hilliard wrote: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A new Ohio law requires drivers to allow at least 3 feet of space when passing bicyclists on the road, though some cyclists say it's tough to enforce and not a strong enough deterrent to cars zipping past too closely. Some Ohio cities, including Cincinnati, Cleveland and Columbus, already had similar requirements. The measure that took effect Tuesday is among 17 bills that Republican Gov. John Kasich (KAY'-sik) signed late last year. It adds the specific 3-foot passing provision to Ohio law, which previously required allowing a generic "safe distance." The Plain Dealer reports Ohio joins more than half the states in the country in setting that specification as part of law to help protect bicyclists. http://www.fox19.com/story/34960657/...ass-bicyclists Problem with these laws is that the wording fails toe specify what point three feet is measured from. Three feet from the centerline of the bike frame? three feet from the end of the handlebar? three feet from the furthest most outward point of the bicyclist + bicycle assembly, typically the bicyclist's left hip, shoulder or elbow. 3 feet of "clearance" - it's pretty obvious it is from thepart of the bike or rider closest to the center-line. says the man who is not a defense attorney. No matter how illogical, cases are won on ridiculous interpretations of seemingly clear English words. That is how the Ontario law reads. The Bill represents an amendment to the Highway Traffic Act and would require motorists to provide at least 3’ or one meter of space to cyclists when passing, and at least 5 feet space when traveling more than 50 km/hr. One meter of space is pretty definitive.. Doesn't take a lawyer to interpret. If a car is 2 feet from the centerline of the bike, there is DEFINITELY not 3 feet of space between the car and the bike.3 feet from the handlebars, or the rider's elbows or ass, whichever is wider. |
#23
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New Ohio law: Drivers leave 3-foot gap to pass bicyclists
On 3/21/2017 7:46 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 5:12:41 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 3/21/2017 7:03 PM, wrote: On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:58:51 -0700 (PDT), Barry Beams wrote: On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 8:08:07 AM UTC-7, Garrison Hilliard wrote: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A new Ohio law requires drivers to allow at least 3 feet of space when passing bicyclists on the road, though some cyclists say it's tough to enforce and not a strong enough deterrent to cars zipping past too closely. Some Ohio cities, including Cincinnati, Cleveland and Columbus, already had similar requirements. The measure that took effect Tuesday is among 17 bills that Republican Gov. John Kasich (KAY'-sik) signed late last year. It adds the specific 3-foot passing provision to Ohio law, which previously required allowing a generic "safe distance." The Plain Dealer reports Ohio joins more than half the states in the country in setting that specification as part of law to help protect bicyclists. http://www.fox19.com/story/34960657/...ass-bicyclists Problem with these laws is that the wording fails toe specify what point three feet is measured from. Three feet from the centerline of the bike frame? three feet from the end of the handlebar? three feet from the furthest most outward point of the bicyclist + bicycle assembly, typically the bicyclist's left hip, shoulder or elbow. 3 feet of "clearance" - it's pretty obvious it is from thepart of the bike or rider closest to the center-line. says the man who is not a defense attorney. No matter how illogical, cases are won on ridiculous interpretations of seemingly clear English words. http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/...ead_insan.html Exactly. Since we cannot hold him responsible for his actions, let's just hand him a machete and turn him loose in the subway. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#24
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New Ohio law: Drivers leave 3-foot gap to pass bicyclists
On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:41:15 -0400, Duane
wrote: On 21/03/2017 1:35 PM, Andre Jute wrote: Three feet is an excellent start. In Europe the requirement is 1.5 meters, which about an inch shy of 5 feet. Typically, on the back roads we ride where I live, taking a minimum bike width of 24in, plus riding at least 18in from the often broken verge of the road, 3.5ft altogether, that means a bicycle should appear to a driver as an 8.5 feet slow-moving obstacle. For those who don't like the attitude of the vehicular cyclists but nonetheless think they get a few things right, that's the same as taking the lane. Last week or the week before a pedalpal mentioned on a ride that cars were giving us plenty of space, so we watched them and they were indeed giving us noticeably more space than last year. On the widest road we ride, for instance, several cars in a row gave two cyclists abreast the 1.5 meters by going to the far side of the road (lanes not actually marked on this back country road with an official limit of 80kph, about 50mph, but most cars traveling less than that because the road is demanding). There was some speculation that maybe the rule was being enforced. It just takes a few enforcements a year to change behavior positively. So three feet is a good start. I also think, after my local experience in probably different conditions, that in slow traffic what is more important than more space is enforcement. If passing speed differential is very large, three feet may not be enough. Andre Jute One hand washes the other On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:08:07 PM UTC, Garrison Hilliard wrote: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A new Ohio law requires drivers to allow at least 3 feet of space when passing bicyclists on the road, though some cyclists say it's tough to enforce and not a strong enough deterrent to cars zipping past too closely. Some Ohio cities, including Cincinnati, Cleveland and Columbus, already had similar requirements. The measure that took effect Tuesday is among 17 bills that Republican Gov. John Kasich (KAY'-sik) signed late last year. It adds the specific 3-foot passing provision to Ohio law, which previously required allowing a generic "safe distance." The Plain Dealer reports Ohio joins more than half the states in the country in setting that specification as part of law to help protect bicyclists. http://www.fox19.com/story/34960657/...ass-bicyclists We have a similar rule here in Quebec. 1 meter for speed limits under 50k/h and 1.5 meters for speed limits over that. Also, if the car can't pass the bicycle in the same lane while maintaining that distance (we still have the keep to the far right) they are supposed to wait until they can change lanes. They are allowed to cross a solid lane dividing line in order to do this. I can say that it seems that some of the drivers certainly seem to follow this. You always get the idiots that think the cars own the road though. Out of curiosity. If an auto can't pass a bicycle closer then 1 M, can a bicycle pass an auto closer then 1 M, if traveling less than 50kph? -- Cheers, John B. |
#25
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New Ohio law: Drivers leave 3-foot gap to pass bicyclists
On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 08:50:44 +0700, John B.
wrote: On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:41:15 -0400, Duane wrote: On 21/03/2017 1:35 PM, Andre Jute wrote: Three feet is an excellent start. In Europe the requirement is 1.5 meters, which about an inch shy of 5 feet. Typically, on the back roads we ride where I live, taking a minimum bike width of 24in, plus riding at least 18in from the often broken verge of the road, 3.5ft altogether, that means a bicycle should appear to a driver as an 8.5 feet slow-moving obstacle. For those who don't like the attitude of the vehicular cyclists but nonetheless think they get a few things right, that's the same as taking the lane. Last week or the week before a pedalpal mentioned on a ride that cars were giving us plenty of space, so we watched them and they were indeed giving us noticeably more space than last year. On the widest road we ride, for instance, several cars in a row gave two cyclists abreast the 1.5 meters by going to the far side of the road (lanes not actually marked on this back country road with an official limit of 80kph, about 50mph, but most cars traveling less than that because the road is demanding). There was some speculation that maybe the rule was being enforced. It just takes a few enforcements a year to change behavior positively. So three feet is a good start. I also think, after my local experience in probably different conditions, that in slow traffic what is more important than more space is enforcement. If passing speed differential is very large, three feet may not be enough. Andre Jute One hand washes the other On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:08:07 PM UTC, Garrison Hilliard wrote: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A new Ohio law requires drivers to allow at least 3 feet of space when passing bicyclists on the road, though some cyclists say it's tough to enforce and not a strong enough deterrent to cars zipping past too closely. Some Ohio cities, including Cincinnati, Cleveland and Columbus, already had similar requirements. The measure that took effect Tuesday is among 17 bills that Republican Gov. John Kasich (KAY'-sik) signed late last year. It adds the specific 3-foot passing provision to Ohio law, which previously required allowing a generic "safe distance." The Plain Dealer reports Ohio joins more than half the states in the country in setting that specification as part of law to help protect bicyclists. http://www.fox19.com/story/34960657/...ass-bicyclists We have a similar rule here in Quebec. 1 meter for speed limits under 50k/h and 1.5 meters for speed limits over that. Also, if the car can't pass the bicycle in the same lane while maintaining that distance (we still have the keep to the far right) they are supposed to wait until they can change lanes. They are allowed to cross a solid lane dividing line in order to do this. I can say that it seems that some of the drivers certainly seem to follow this. You always get the idiots that think the cars own the road though. Out of curiosity. If an auto can't pass a bicycle closer then 1 M, can a bicycle pass an auto closer then 1 M, if traveling less than 50kph? They do - all the time - but if they hit the car they can be charged.. |
#26
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New Ohio law: Drivers leave 3-foot gap to pass bicyclists
On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:08:01 -0400, Garrison Hilliard
wrote: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A new Ohio law requires drivers to allow at least 3 feet of space when passing bicyclists on the road, (...) http://www.fox19.com/story/34960657/...ass-bicyclists I noticed that California drivers are already practicing their passing skills in maintaining a 3ft clearance. A car and cyclist were approaching from the opposite direction on a two lane roadway. In order to pass the cyclist, the car swerved into oncoming traffic nearly causing it to hit me head on. I had to swerve and drive on the road shoulder in order to prevent an impact. Perhaps it might be useful for the law to explain what a driver should do if it's not possible to safely pass with a 3ft clearance? -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#27
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New Ohio law: Drivers leave 3-foot gap to pass bicyclists
On 3/21/2017 1:12 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-21 08:21, wrote: On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 8:08:07 AM UTC-7, Garrison Hilliard wrote: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A new Ohio law requires drivers to allow at least 3 feet of space when passing bicyclists on the road, though some cyclists say it's tough to enforce and not a strong enough deterrent to cars zipping past too closely. Some Ohio cities, including Cincinnati, Cleveland and Columbus, already had similar requirements. The measure that took effect Tuesday is among 17 bills that Republican Gov. John Kasich (KAY'-sik) signed late last year. It adds the specific 3-foot passing provision to Ohio law, which previously required allowing a generic "safe distance." The Plain Dealer reports Ohio joins more than half the states in the country in setting that specification as part of law to help protect bicyclists. http://www.fox19.com/story/34960657/...ass-bicyclists You will probably have the same effect as California - they will give you room for about three months and then forget about it unless there's a cop present. Out here in El Dorado County it mostly stuck though. Except for low-lifes like the one on Saturday that want to show who is boss. Leaning on the horn, pushing me to the side. A flag like Andrew's would only have helped if it had a morning star fastened to the end. Enforcement is pretty much zero. Reporting a rogue driver even with evidence won't do much good either. The sad result is what I hear over and over again, most recently an hour ago while walking the dog. A neighbor said "Oh yeah, I cycle. See the stationary bike in the garage?" ... "But you could have a lot more fun on a real bicycle" ... "I don't ride alongside cars anymore, ever". If there ain't no bike path they will not ride. If you keep telling everyone it's dangerous, you enforce that paranoia. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#28
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New Ohio law: Drivers leave 3-foot gap to pass bicyclists
On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:31:04 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:08:01 -0400, Garrison Hilliard wrote: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A new Ohio law requires drivers to allow at least 3 feet of space when passing bicyclists on the road, (...) http://www.fox19.com/story/34960657/...ass-bicyclists I noticed that California drivers are already practicing their passing skills in maintaining a 3ft clearance. A car and cyclist were approaching from the opposite direction on a two lane roadway. In order to pass the cyclist, the car swerved into oncoming traffic nearly causing it to hit me head on. I had to swerve and drive on the road shoulder in order to prevent an impact. Perhaps it might be useful for the law to explain what a driver should do if it's not possible to safely pass with a 3ft clearance? It is in the ontario law. The driver must wait to pass untill it is safe to do so. |
#29
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New Ohio law: Drivers leave 3-foot gap to pass bicyclists
On 3/21/2017 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:41:15 -0400, Duane wrote: On 21/03/2017 1:35 PM, Andre Jute wrote: Three feet is an excellent start. In Europe the requirement is 1.5 meters, which about an inch shy of 5 feet. Typically, on the back roads we ride where I live, taking a minimum bike width of 24in, plus riding at least 18in from the often broken verge of the road, 3.5ft altogether, that means a bicycle should appear to a driver as an 8.5 feet slow-moving obstacle. For those who don't like the attitude of the vehicular cyclists but nonetheless think they get a few things right, that's the same as taking the lane. Last week or the week before a pedalpal mentioned on a ride that cars were giving us plenty of space, so we watched them and they were indeed giving us noticeably more space than last year. On the widest road we ride, for instance, several cars in a row gave two cyclists abreast the 1.5 meters by going to the far side of the road (lanes not actually marked on this back country road with an official limit of 80kph, about 50mph, but most cars traveling less than that because the road is demanding). There was some speculation that maybe the rule was being enforced. It just takes a few enforcements a year to change behavior positively. So three feet is a good start. I also think, after my local experience in probably different conditions, that in slow traffic what is more important than more space is enforcement. If passing speed differential is very large, three feet may not be enough. Andre Jute One hand washes the other On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:08:07 PM UTC, Garrison Hilliard wrote: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A new Ohio law requires drivers to allow at least 3 feet of space when passing bicyclists on the road, though some cyclists say it's tough to enforce and not a strong enough deterrent to cars zipping past too closely. Some Ohio cities, including Cincinnati, Cleveland and Columbus, already had similar requirements. The measure that took effect Tuesday is among 17 bills that Republican Gov. John Kasich (KAY'-sik) signed late last year. It adds the specific 3-foot passing provision to Ohio law, which previously required allowing a generic "safe distance." The Plain Dealer reports Ohio joins more than half the states in the country in setting that specification as part of law to help protect bicyclists. http://www.fox19.com/story/34960657/...ass-bicyclists We have a similar rule here in Quebec. 1 meter for speed limits under 50k/h and 1.5 meters for speed limits over that. Also, if the car can't pass the bicycle in the same lane while maintaining that distance (we still have the keep to the far right) they are supposed to wait until they can change lanes. They are allowed to cross a solid lane dividing line in order to do this. I can say that it seems that some of the drivers certainly seem to follow this. You always get the idiots that think the cars own the road though. Out of curiosity. If an auto can't pass a bicycle closer then 1 M, can a bicycle pass an auto closer then 1 M, if traveling less than 50kph? ISTR one instance (in another state) where a cyclist was ticketed for such an offense. But I think that's vanishingly rare. I was on the team that got the Ohio law proposed and that worked for its passage. From experience, I'll say that cyclist advocates may work long and hard on getting the details of legal phrasing correct, trying to prevent unwanted consequences. But lawmakers have the final say. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#30
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New Ohio law: Drivers leave 3-foot gap to pass bicyclists
On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 22:00:26 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 08:50:44 +0700, John B. wrote: On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:41:15 -0400, Duane wrote: On 21/03/2017 1:35 PM, Andre Jute wrote: Three feet is an excellent start. In Europe the requirement is 1.5 meters, which about an inch shy of 5 feet. Typically, on the back roads we ride where I live, taking a minimum bike width of 24in, plus riding at least 18in from the often broken verge of the road, 3.5ft altogether, that means a bicycle should appear to a driver as an 8.5 feet slow-moving obstacle. For those who don't like the attitude of the vehicular cyclists but nonetheless think they get a few things right, that's the same as taking the lane. Last week or the week before a pedalpal mentioned on a ride that cars were giving us plenty of space, so we watched them and they were indeed giving us noticeably more space than last year. On the widest road we ride, for instance, several cars in a row gave two cyclists abreast the 1.5 meters by going to the far side of the road (lanes not actually marked on this back country road with an official limit of 80kph, about 50mph, but most cars traveling less than that because the road is demanding). There was some speculation that maybe the rule was being enforced. It just takes a few enforcements a year to change behavior positively. So three feet is a good start. I also think, after my local experience in probably different conditions, that in slow traffic what is more important than more space is enforcement. If passing speed differential is very large, three feet may not be enough. Andre Jute One hand washes the other On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:08:07 PM UTC, Garrison Hilliard wrote: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A new Ohio law requires drivers to allow at least 3 feet of space when passing bicyclists on the road, though some cyclists say it's tough to enforce and not a strong enough deterrent to cars zipping past too closely. Some Ohio cities, including Cincinnati, Cleveland and Columbus, already had similar requirements. The measure that took effect Tuesday is among 17 bills that Republican Gov. John Kasich (KAY'-sik) signed late last year. It adds the specific 3-foot passing provision to Ohio law, which previously required allowing a generic "safe distance." The Plain Dealer reports Ohio joins more than half the states in the country in setting that specification as part of law to help protect bicyclists. http://www.fox19.com/story/34960657/...ass-bicyclists We have a similar rule here in Quebec. 1 meter for speed limits under 50k/h and 1.5 meters for speed limits over that. Also, if the car can't pass the bicycle in the same lane while maintaining that distance (we still have the keep to the far right) they are supposed to wait until they can change lanes. They are allowed to cross a solid lane dividing line in order to do this. I can say that it seems that some of the drivers certainly seem to follow this. You always get the idiots that think the cars own the road though. Out of curiosity. If an auto can't pass a bicycle closer then 1 M, can a bicycle pass an auto closer then 1 M, if traveling less than 50kph? They do - all the time - but if they hit the car they can be charged.. I was trying to envision the actual interpretation of the law itself and it would seem to me that a possible interpretation might be that there must be 1 meter of space between the bicycle and the auto. Thus the party that violated this space could be at fault. I can certainly envision a defense of "No Sir, your Honor. I was 1 meter from the bicycle and than he swerved toward me". -- Cheers, John B. |
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