Belt drive

On 2019-04-27 15:51, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:54:56 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:24, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 15:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

[...]



It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to figure something
out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS MTB and central-battery
powered lighting where, no surprise, I had to build it all myself. Beats
me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

Probably because if your using the bike differently to others, my commute
bike though a hardtail is closer to that set up with panniers and a barbag
as I found the weight on the rear effected the handling though with the
weight spread even fully Laden the bike can be some fun in the woods if one
wants.

But for the Nice MTB I don’t need to take so much gear and as a leisure
rather than transport it’s a much nicer ride unladen.


Even during fun rides I carry a full tool kit, a big lock, some spare
parts and most of all water. The water alone can be north of a gallon in
summer because many MTB trails have no opportunity to refill (safely).

How often or likely is a full tool kit needed? Personally I do take some
Allen keys but can’t remember the last time they where needed.


You could have asked the guy whose shifter cable snapped and the limit
screws had Allen heads so were not adjustable via Swiss Army knife.

Err... the five Allan wrenches that I carry allow me to tighten or
loosen every threaded fastener on the bike and weigh considerably less
than a "Swiss Army Knife". ...


If you have the right size among them. I like to have it all. Now in the
shape of a Crankbrothers M19 tool which ... drum roll ... even contains
a chain breaker.

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

Plus a Swiss Army knife. Always. And a first aid kit. And a lock. And ...


... But of course I can't fight off a raging
mountain lion with my Allan wrench....


Or a rattlesnake. The other shortcoming of Allen wrenches is that they
do not have a bottle opener or corkscrew. They also lack a can opener,
for example, if you like to have anchovies on your sandwich.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2019-04-27 15:33, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:27:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:20, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:40:39 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 16:27, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 12:22:41 -0700, Joerg
wrote:


[...]


It's lasted many thousand hard miles now which included heavy loads.
Yeah, that bike is heavy but it never breaks down anymore.

The carbon-fiber bicycles are so popular is because they are light :-)

I doubt that marketing a bike because it is heavier than all the rest
would be a real smart marketing move :-)


No, it has to be marketed as sturdier than the others. That gets
customers. Why do you think heavy SUVs sell so well in some areas?

The reason that USV's were invented was to circumvent U.S.
regulations about fuel economy (if I remember correctly). By building
a vehicle on a truck chassis and classifying it as a truck the fuel
consumption limits for automobiles didn't apply.


That sounds like fake news. My SUV is classified as a passenger vehicle,
else it would require a different kind of license plate like the pickup
truck of a neighbor does. He also has to pay more tax on it.

No it isn't. I was alive and well when the SUV's were "invented" and
it was common knowledge then. the first vehicle stated to be a SYV
seems to have been the International Harvester Travelall in 1956
(credited as being the first full-size SUV).

Even the Wiki seems to know why the term and model came about,
"For example, Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regulations
previously included "permit greater cargo-carrying capacity than
passenger carrying volume" in the definition for trucks, resulting in
SUVs being classified as light trucks.

This classification as trucks allowed SUVs to be regulated less
strictly than passenger cars under the Energy Policy and Conservation
Act for fuel economy, and the Clean Air Act for emissions.

Even a casual look would have let you in on the secret .


Why do you think the Ford Ranger is out of favor? AFAIK that size does
not fall under CAFE loophole and that's the size of many modern SUV
(such as mine).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2019-04-27 23:59, sms wrote:
On 4/27/2019 7:27 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

That sounds like fake news. My SUV is classified as a passenger
vehicle, else it would require a different kind of license plate like
the pickup truck of a neighbor does. He also has to pay more tax on it.

In California you used to have to register pickup trucks as commercial
vehicles but that's no longer required.


My mountian bike buddy had to register his commercial. That cost was one
of the reasons why he sold it.


In San Francisco there was an advantage of registering as a commercial
vehicle because there are parking spaces designated for commercial
vehicles.


Parking in S.F.? Where??

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

John B. wrote:
:On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:27:33 -0700, Joerg
:wrote:

:On 2019-04-26 16:20, John B. wrote:
: On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:40:39 -0700, Joerg
: wrote:
:
: On 2019-04-25 16:27, John B. wrote:
: On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 12:22:41 -0700, Joerg
: wrote:
:
:
:[...]
:
:
: It's lasted many thousand hard miles now which included heavy loads.
: Yeah, that bike is heavy but it never breaks down anymore.
:
: The carbon-fiber bicycles are so popular is because they are light :-)
:
: I doubt that marketing a bike because it is heavier than all the rest
: would be a real smart marketing move :-)
:
:
: No, it has to be marketed as sturdier than the others. That gets
: customers. Why do you think heavy SUVs sell so well in some areas?
:
: The reason that USV's were invented was to circumvent U.S.
: regulations about fuel economy (if I remember correctly). By building
: a vehicle on a truck chassis and classifying it as a truck the fuel
: consumption limits for automobiles didn't apply.
:
:
:That sounds like fake news. My SUV is classified as a passenger vehicle,
:else it would require a different kind of license plate like the pickup
:truck of a neighbor does. He also has to pay more tax on it.

:No it isn't. I was alive and well when the SUV's were "invented" and
:it was common knowledge then. the first vehicle stated to be a SYV
:seems to have been the International Harvester Travelall in 1956
credited as being the first full-size SUV).

Land-Rover were selling long wheelbase models with station wagon
bodies before that.


--
This is not a randomly numbered sig.

On 4/28/2019 9:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-27 15:51, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:54:56 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:24, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 15:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

[...]



It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to
figure something
out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS MTB
and central-battery
powered lighting where, no surprise, I had to build
it all myself. Beats
me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

Probably because if your using the bike differently to
others, my commute
bike though a hardtail is closer to that set up with
panniers and a barbag
as I found the weight on the rear effected the
handling though with the
weight spread even fully Laden the bike can be some
fun in the woods if one
wants.

But for the Nice MTB I don’t need to take so much gear
and as a leisure
rather than transport it’s a much nicer ride unladen.


Even during fun rides I carry a full tool kit, a big
lock, some spare
parts and most of all water. The water alone can be
north of a gallon in
summer because many MTB trails have no opportunity to
refill (safely).

How often or likely is a full tool kit needed?
Personally I do take some
Allen keys but can’t remember the last time they where
needed.


You could have asked the guy whose shifter cable snapped
and the limit
screws had Allen heads so were not adjustable via Swiss
Army knife.

Err... the five Allan wrenches that I carry allow me to
tighten or
loosen every threaded fastener on the bike and weigh
considerably less
than a "Swiss Army Knife". ...


If you have the right size among them. I like to have it
all. Now in the shape of a Crankbrothers M19 tool which ...
drum roll ... even contains a chain breaker.

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

Plus a Swiss Army knife. Always. And a first aid kit. And a
lock. And ...


... But of course I can't fight off a
raging
mountain lion with my Allan wrench....


Or a rattlesnake. The other shortcoming of Allen wrenches is
that they do not have a bottle opener or corkscrew. They
also lack a can opener, for example, if you like to have
anchovies on your sandwich.


You can't foresee every potential hazard. Ride with a snake
bite kit, Narcan, Cipro, a pistol, flares, iodine tablets?
Sheesh I don't. As the great sage Willie Dixon wrote about a
$50 bill, "Grant will get you out of whatever you're in".
Traveling light works for me, YMMV.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2019-04-28 08:58, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/28/2019 9:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-27 15:51, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:54:56 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:24, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 15:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

[...]



It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to
figure something
out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS MTB
and central-battery
powered lighting where, no surprise, I had to build
it all myself. Beats
me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

Probably because if your using the bike differently to
others, my commute
bike though a hardtail is closer to that set up with
panniers and a barbag
as I found the weight on the rear effected the
handling though with the
weight spread even fully Laden the bike can be some
fun in the woods if one
wants.

But for the Nice MTB I don’t need to take so much gear
and as a leisure
rather than transport it’s a much nicer ride unladen.


Even during fun rides I carry a full tool kit, a big
lock, some spare
parts and most of all water. The water alone can be
north of a gallon in
summer because many MTB trails have no opportunity to
refill (safely).

How often or likely is a full tool kit needed?
Personally I do take some
Allen keys but can’t remember the last time they where
needed.


You could have asked the guy whose shifter cable snapped
and the limit
screws had Allen heads so were not adjustable via Swiss
Army knife.

Err... the five Allan wrenches that I carry allow me to
tighten or
loosen every threaded fastener on the bike and weigh
considerably less
than a "Swiss Army Knife". ...


If you have the right size among them. I like to have it
all. Now in the shape of a Crankbrothers M19 tool which ...
drum roll ... even contains a chain breaker.

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

Plus a Swiss Army knife. Always. And a first aid kit. And a
lock. And ...


... But of course I can't fight off a
raging
mountain lion with my Allan wrench....


Or a rattlesnake. The other shortcoming of Allen wrenches is
that they do not have a bottle opener or corkscrew. They
also lack a can opener, for example, if you like to have
anchovies on your sandwich.


You can't foresee every potential hazard. Ride with a snake bite kit,
Narcan, Cipro, a pistol, flares, iodine tablets? Sheesh I don't.


I know I should have added a smiley.


... As the
great sage Willie Dixon wrote about a $50 bill, "Grant will get you out
of whatever you're in". Traveling light works for me, YMMV.


That part of my baggage is for beer. Strictly beer. And maybe a pretzel
with Obatzda or at least some melted cheese.

Problem is where I go Grant can't do a thing because there ain't no
stores or even residences for miles and miles.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 4/28/2019 11:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/28/2019 9:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-27 15:51, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:54:56 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:24, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 15:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

[...]



It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to
figure something
out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS MTB
and central-battery
powered lighting where, no surprise, I had to build
it all myself. Beats
me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

Probably because if your using the bike differently to
others, my commute
bike though a hardtail is closer to that set up with
panniers and a barbag
as I found the weight on the rear effected the
handling though with the
weight spread even fully Laden the bike can be some
fun in the woods if one
wants.

But for the Nice MTB I don’t need to take so much gear
and as a leisure
rather than transport it’s a much nicer ride unladen.


Even during fun rides I carry a full tool kit, a big
lock, some spare
parts and most of all water. The water alone can be
north of a gallon in
summer because many MTB trails have no opportunity to
refill (safely).

How often or likely is a full tool kit needed?
Personally I do take some
Allen keys but can’t remember the last time they where
needed.


You could have asked the guy whose shifter cable snapped
and the limit
screws had Allen heads so were not adjustable via Swiss
Army knife.

Err... the five* Allan wrenches that I carry allow me to
tighten or
loosen every threaded fastener on the bike and weigh
considerably less
than a "Swiss Army Knife". ...


If you have the right size among them. I like to have it
all. Now in the shape of a Crankbrothers M19 tool which ...
drum roll ... even contains a chain breaker.

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

Plus a Swiss Army knife. Always. And a first aid kit. And a
lock. And ...


****************** ... But of course I can't fight off a
raging
mountain lion with my Allan wrench....


Or a rattlesnake. The other shortcoming of Allen wrenches is
that they do not have a bottle opener or corkscrew. They
also lack a can opener, for example, if you like to have
anchovies on your sandwich.


You can't foresee every potential hazard. Ride with a snake bite kit,
Narcan, Cipro, a pistol, flares, iodine tablets? Sheesh I don't. As the
great sage Willie Dixon wrote about a $50 bill, "Grant will get you out
of whatever you're in". Traveling light works for me, YMMV.

I wonder how Joerg would do backpacking.

I've known backpackers who cut their toothbrush in half to save weight.
I suspect Joerg would pack two toothbrushes, three kinds of toothpaste,
a gallon of mouthwash and the bathroom sink, just in case...


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, April 27, 2019 at 7:12:38 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-26 08:33, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/26/2019 9:44 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 16:23, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:00:49 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
wrote:

[...]


Given a choice I’d love a belt drive bike for the commute
as I clock up
fairly respectable distances per day which does chew
though the drive
chain.

See:
https://momentummag.com/commuter-bik...-carbon-drive/

https://www.veercycle.com/
or perhaps even better see
https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-dr...manufacturers/



I wouldn't want a belt drive. If that belt snaps it
generally does so without warning and then it can be a nasty
crash.


That's true but how different to the rider from a broken chain,
driveshaft, crank or pedal?



Chains usually do not snap without some serious lack of maintenance or
running them way past prime. Never heard of a driveshaft break except
once on a heavy vehicle (bus). Belts usually snap out of the blue.

As for cranks a friend of mine had an expensive Campagnolo crank break
and it was clearly a manufacturing defect but they refused to even do a
warranty exchange. He landed towards the middle of the road but luckily
no cars came along.

I've broken four or five Campy NR cranks, two or three Shimano Ultegra cranks, an Ofmega track crank, an old Stronglight 93. I had two CF cranks with pedal eyes that cracked and separated from the CF layup (SRAM Red and FSA).. I bent first generation Dura Ace/Look pedal spindle, snapped a Ti ER platform pedal spindle, snapped a spindle on a Look pedal. I broke chains, but usually because I had been sloppy reinstalling a pin or because a shift side-loaded a quick link. Conventional drive trains can and do break. I've scootered home or to the nearest bike shop or hitch-hiked (broken too-light-for-touring 5sp chain in the middle of nowhere Washington) too many times. BTW, none of those failures landed me on the road, even though all of the crank failures were during out of the saddle efforts.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 4/28/2019 3:12 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 27, 2019 at 7:12:38 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-26 08:33, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/26/2019 9:44 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 16:23, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:00:49 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
wrote:

[...]


Given a choice I’d love a belt drive bike for the commute
as I clock up
fairly respectable distances per day which does chew
though the drive
chain.

See:
https://momentummag.com/commuter-bik...-carbon-drive/

https://www.veercycle.com/
or perhaps even better see
https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-dr...manufacturers/



I wouldn't want a belt drive. If that belt snaps it
generally does so without warning and then it can be a nasty
crash.


That's true but how different to the rider from a broken chain,
driveshaft, crank or pedal?



Chains usually do not snap without some serious lack of maintenance or
running them way past prime. Never heard of a driveshaft break except
once on a heavy vehicle (bus). Belts usually snap out of the blue.

As for cranks a friend of mine had an expensive Campagnolo crank break
and it was clearly a manufacturing defect but they refused to even do a
warranty exchange. He landed towards the middle of the road but luckily
no cars came along.

I've broken four or five Campy NR cranks, two or three Shimano Ultegra cranks, an Ofmega track crank, an old Stronglight 93. I had two CF cranks with pedal eyes that cracked and separated from the CF layup (SRAM Red and FSA). I bent first generation Dura Ace/Look pedal spindle, snapped a Ti ER platform pedal spindle, snapped a spindle on a Look pedal. I broke chains, but usually because I had been sloppy reinstalling a pin or because a shift side-loaded a quick link. Conventional drive trains can and do break. I've scootered home or to the nearest bike shop or hitch-hiked (broken too-light-for-touring 5sp chain in the middle of nowhere Washington) too many times. BTW, none of those failures landed me on the road, even though all of the crank failures were during out of the saddle efforts.

-- Jay Beattie.


http://www.yellowjersey.org/jayscranks.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 07:46:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-27 15:55, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:59:25 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:12, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:27:05 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 16:32, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:16:28 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 14:03, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:22:36 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 11:00, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-12 07:27, db wrote:
My son is set on getting a belt drive for the bike he is
building. What is good about them? You have to have the exact
length for your bike, and if it breaks, it is very expensive
to replace.

So, why?


Dad gave him too much money :-)

Now, a shaft drive, that would be great.


Imagine it would be much heavier and complicated, they have been
tried and used on MTB but don’t seem to have been cracked, I
think generally the extra weight/cost though a E-MTB would
mitigate that?


Motorcycle manufacturers have figured it out, most of all BMW.
That company should also build MTB, they know how it's done. Weight
doesn't always matter, especially not for many MTB riders. We just
want less wear and most importanly not have to clean and lube the
chain every 50 miles.

It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to figure
something out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS MTB and
central-battery powered lighting where, no surprise, I had to build
it all myself. Beats me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

It's lasted many thousand hard miles now which included heavy
loads. Yeah, that bike is heavy but it never breaks down anymore.


Given a choice I’d love a belt drive bike for the commute as I
clock up fairly respectable distances per day which does chew
though the drive chain.


I'd be careful ...

https://www.thelocal.se/20180524/ike...-lead-to-falls



--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Weight of an MTB doesn't matter? What a crock full of El Toro Poo
Poo! Maybe weight doesn't matter in your world but it sure does to a
LOT of other MTB users. I keep telling you Joerg; your best bet to
get the durability that you say YOU need is to buy a small gasoline
powered dirt motorcycle and convert it to pedal power. After all,
weight doesn't matter to you.


Within reason, of course. There are people who rather ride a bicycle
that weighs 10lbs more than customary but in contrast to others they
generally arrive at their destinations on time, due to a lack of
breakdowns. I happen to be one of those.

The only times during the last years (!) that I didn't arrive on time
were when I assisted others during repairs. Because they didn't have
thorn-resistant tubes et cetera.

But Joerg, I ride a conventional steel frame bicycle and I haven't had
a breakdown, or even something that came loose so I couldn't ride, in
20 years or more. In fact, in thinking back I can't even remember a
time that my bike broke and I couldn't ride it.


No flats in 20 years?

I didn't say anything about flat tires but I don't judge a flat tire
to be a "breakdown" or "came loose"

A flat tire without any tools _is_ a breakdown. He get to hoof it out of
the wilderness for then next 10-20 miles.

But in all the years I've been riding a bicycle I have NEVER had a
flat tire that I couldn't fix in a matter of minutes. Way back in the
old "sew-up" tire days you didn't even need any tools. Fix it with
your bare hands.


Now try that with a Gatorskin or a Vee Rubber 700c 25mm. Yeah, it can be
done but you won't be able to feel some of your fingertips for a while.

I bought a pair of Gatorskin tires, oh probably 10 years ago, and
contrary to their advertised proof against flats promptly had two
flats in less than 5 Km of riding. I haven't used a gatorskin since.
As for Vee tires, I have the feeling that they are a very cheap Thai
made tire or at least I saw some for sale in a store called "Super
Cheap" for something like 3 dollars each, so I don't use those either.

I've been told that the cheap tires in Thailand all made from a
rubber mix that contains a lot of carbon black, which makes them
harder and they wear less and thus are very well regarded by those who
can't afford to buy tires frequently. Unfortunately hard tires also
"grip the road" less well and have minimal traction.

--
cheers,

John B.