#21
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 08:23:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 10:32:44 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 07:16:35 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 8:15:27 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 8/1/2019 10:22 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 01 Aug 2019 20:23:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 8/1/2019 7:29 PM, John B. wrote: I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else. Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to die!" But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ? -- cheers, John B. Like the situation the past few years in Philippines[1], where legal pharmaceutical stimulants were suddenly and voluminously exceeded by imported methamphetamine from the Norks, Red China and a new domestic industry, the bulk of USA street Fentanyl is not rerouted anaesthetic pharmaceuticals but rather imports from China and China routed through Mexico. This is not news: https://www.news-herald.com/news/ohi...57599081b.html Since the transfer cost of contraband is relatively fixed by mass, imports tend to extremely powerful versions and analogs, notably veterinary Carfentanyl http://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/...rfentanil.aspx [1] As with Mr Trump, Mr Duterte has reacted to a real problem, You may disagree with either man's policy or style or rhetoric, but the problems are indeed real. Facts are stubborn things... Frankly while the "solution" may seem to be to get the host country to ban the substance, whatever it may be, in reality that doesn't work. In the recent past Opium was legally sold in Laos. You could go to the market and buy it. Than the U.S. beat the Laotians over the head and got them to outlaw opium and its depravities and while it was no longer sold in the market the production of opium and its depravities actually grew and today it is estimated that Laos and Myanmar (not the major grower of poppies) produced 893 metric tons of opium, in 2013, a 22 percent growth from the previous year. How can this be? Well Europe and the U.S. will buy, albeit illicitly, just about all the opium products that a small country can produce and not surprisingly to any student of economics where a market exists a source will be found to supply it. The current largest producer of poppies in the world is Afghanistan with some 225,000 hectares ( 555,987 acres)in production. What is the solution? Simple, penalize the users. If the demand is reduced then the supply will also be reduced. Is it politically possible in a country like the U.S.? Probably not. -- cheers, John B. "What is the solution? Simple, penalize the users." The net effect of the first hundred years of near-worldwide heroin ban hasn't worked out all that well. Seems to have merely kept the price up, encouraging supply. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 And thereby making the rich even richer as they deal it. I heroin the MAIN reason the USA and Canada went into Afghanistan? LOL VBRG Cheers If heroin is the main reason that The U.S. and Canada went into Afghanistan then they weren't very successful given that Afghanistan is the single largest producer of Opium and its derivatives in the world :-) -- cheers, John B. What I meant was did those two countries go into Afghanistan to SECURE the opium poppy trade/source? VBEG Cheers Oh! I don't think so, or at last from what I've read, Afganstan is in the feudal governmental stage of development with Lords, Dukes and Counts, except that they call them War Lords, owning or controlling much of the land outside the cities, rather like England in 1066. And, since the Warlords control most of the country side, and the population, i.e. soldiers, outside the cities anyone wanting to control Afghanistan must be friendly with the Warlords and give them guns to keep them strong and heaps of money to keep them friendly, and not enquire too deeply into how they run their bailiwick. And, perhaps the easiest money crop for the Warlords to grow, on their land, is Opium. As an aside, almost exactly as Laos in the old Air America days :-) -- cheers, John B. |
Ads |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 10:42:55 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/2/2019 9:32 AM, John B. wrote: On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 07:16:35 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 8:15:27 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 8/1/2019 10:22 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 01 Aug 2019 20:23:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 8/1/2019 7:29 PM, John B. wrote: I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else. Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to die!" But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ? -- cheers, John B. Like the situation the past few years in Philippines[1], where legal pharmaceutical stimulants were suddenly and voluminously exceeded by imported methamphetamine from the Norks, Red China and a new domestic industry, the bulk of USA street Fentanyl is not rerouted anaesthetic pharmaceuticals but rather imports from China and China routed through Mexico. This is not news: https://www.news-herald.com/news/ohi...57599081b.html Since the transfer cost of contraband is relatively fixed by mass, imports tend to extremely powerful versions and analogs, notably veterinary Carfentanyl http://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/...rfentanil.aspx [1] As with Mr Trump, Mr Duterte has reacted to a real problem, You may disagree with either man's policy or style or rhetoric, but the problems are indeed real. Facts are stubborn things... Frankly while the "solution" may seem to be to get the host country to ban the substance, whatever it may be, in reality that doesn't work. In the recent past Opium was legally sold in Laos. You could go to the market and buy it. Than the U.S. beat the Laotians over the head and got them to outlaw opium and its depravities and while it was no longer sold in the market the production of opium and its depravities actually grew and today it is estimated that Laos and Myanmar (not the major grower of poppies) produced 893 metric tons of opium, in 2013, a 22 percent growth from the previous year. How can this be? Well Europe and the U.S. will buy, albeit illicitly, just about all the opium products that a small country can produce and not surprisingly to any student of economics where a market exists a source will be found to supply it. The current largest producer of poppies in the world is Afghanistan with some 225,000 hectares ( 555,987 acres)in production. What is the solution? Simple, penalize the users. If the demand is reduced then the supply will also be reduced. Is it politically possible in a country like the U.S.? Probably not. -- cheers, John B. "What is the solution? Simple, penalize the users." The net effect of the first hundred years of near-worldwide heroin ban hasn't worked out all that well. Seems to have merely kept the price up, encouraging supply. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 And thereby making the rich even richer as they deal it. I heroin the MAIN reason the USA and Canada went into Afghanistan? LOL VBRG Cheers If heroin is the main reason that The U.S. and Canada went into Afghanistan then they weren't very successful given that Afghanistan is the single largest producer of Opium and its derivatives in the world :-) -- cheers, John B. I've heard that Afghanistan=opium and Iraq=oil for years despite any rational evidence for either. The same wags used to say Viet Nam=oil too. pfft. Well whatever, but the largest cash crop, today, in Afghanistan is Opium, and Hashish, or it's derivatives, and certainly oil is/was the largest generator of foreign capital in Iraq. But Vietnam? Perhaps rice? -- cheers, John B. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 08:53:52 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 11:44:59 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 8/2/2019 10:23 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 10:32:44 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 07:16:35 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 8:15:27 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 8/1/2019 10:22 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 01 Aug 2019 20:23:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 8/1/2019 7:29 PM, John B. wrote: I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else. Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to die!" But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ? -- cheers, John B. Like the situation the past few years in Philippines[1], where legal pharmaceutical stimulants were suddenly and voluminously exceeded by imported methamphetamine from the Norks, Red China and a new domestic industry, the bulk of USA street Fentanyl is not rerouted anaesthetic pharmaceuticals but rather imports from China and China routed through Mexico. This is not news: https://www.news-herald.com/news/ohi...57599081b.html Since the transfer cost of contraband is relatively fixed by mass, imports tend to extremely powerful versions and analogs, notably veterinary Carfentanyl http://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/...rfentanil.aspx [1] As with Mr Trump, Mr Duterte has reacted to a real problem, You may disagree with either man's policy or style or rhetoric, but the problems are indeed real. Facts are stubborn things... Frankly while the "solution" may seem to be to get the host country to ban the substance, whatever it may be, in reality that doesn't work. In the recent past Opium was legally sold in Laos. You could go to the market and buy it. Than the U.S. beat the Laotians over the head and got them to outlaw opium and its depravities and while it was no longer sold in the market the production of opium and its depravities actually grew and today it is estimated that Laos and Myanmar (not the major grower of poppies) produced 893 metric tons of opium, in 2013, a 22 percent growth from the previous year. How can this be? Well Europe and the U.S. will buy, albeit illicitly, just about all the opium products that a small country can produce and not surprisingly to any student of economics where a market exists a source will be found to supply it. The current largest producer of poppies in the world is Afghanistan with some 225,000 hectares ( 555,987 acres)in production. What is the solution? Simple, penalize the users. If the demand is reduced then the supply will also be reduced. Is it politically possible in a country like the U.S.? Probably not. -- cheers, John B. "What is the solution? Simple, penalize the users." The net effect of the first hundred years of near-worldwide heroin ban hasn't worked out all that well. Seems to have merely kept the price up, encouraging supply. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 And thereby making the rich even richer as they deal it. I heroin the MAIN reason the USA and Canada went into Afghanistan? LOL VBRG Cheers If heroin is the main reason that The U.S. and Canada went into Afghanistan then they weren't very successful given that Afghanistan is the single largest producer of Opium and its derivatives in the world :-) -- cheers, John B. What I meant was did those two countries go into Afghanistan to SECURE the opium poppy trade/source? VBEG Cheers The Soviets, unencumbered by lawyers or reporters, made a brutal effort in Afghanistan with worse results and also brought home an opiate problem. More tar baby than treasure trove IMHO. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 "Afghanistan, the Graveyard of Nations". Cheers During the 1800's Great Britain, perhaps the most powerful nation in the world, fought a number of "wars" on the N.W. Frontier and in the First Anglo-Afghan War G.B. invaded Afganstan, in 1839, with an army of 21,000 men and some 38,000 Indian camp followers and 30,000 camels to carry supplies. When the British withdrew, in 1842, the only soldier to reach Jalalabad, British India, was Dr. William Brydon . Who was it that said something about those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it? -- cheers, John B. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 15:35:11 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote: On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 6:03:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else. Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to die!" But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ? See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/w...nyl-trump.html Fentanyl and all its variants are now controlled substances in China which, of course, does not stop illegal trade. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, Fentanyl was developed to be used as an injectable painkiller when all else fails. The people in the final stages of cancer and the like do not respond much to most of the pain killers on the market including the strongest forms of Morphine. I read somewhere that it is extremely effective and it has a very short time to peak effect - ~ 5 minutes, and it's effects only last about an hour and is seen as ideal for surgery and obstetrical anesthesia. As of 2017, fentanyl was the most widely used synthetic opioid in medicine. And Fentanyl patches for cancer pain are on the WHO List of Essential Medicines. Of course the drug dealers immediately started manufacturing it in pill form and with which it is extremely easy to misuse. -- cheers, John B. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 1:00:47 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 1:15:27 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote: The net effect of the first hundred years of near-worldwide heroin ban hasn't worked out all that well. Seems to have merely kept the price up, encouraging supply. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 The pure, theoretical, ivory tower solution is to legalise drugs, which instantly kills a lot of crime. I'm surprised that the Left, which also supports fewer people and abortion, hasn't yet twigged that cheap drugs is another eugenic solution to "too many people on Gaia." We'll see how the legalisation of cannabis works out. So far, so good, dude. My family owned a pharmacy that opened its doors in 1888 and had all sorts of ancient patent medicines stashed in the scary basement, many of which contained cocaine, heroine, marijuana -- and less fun stuff like strychnine and arsenic. My youth in the late '50s early '60s: https://storage.googleapis.com/hippo...16148838ac.jpg The old brick basement would give Edgar Allan Poe the willies. There was, as you know, a long period when all the illegal drugs were not illegal. The opiate epidemic in the late 1880s that resulted in the eventual regulation of narcotics was barely worse than the current opioid epidemic. https://www.livescience.com/60559-op...-of-1800s.html Regulation has little effect on criminals and addicts, and now that we have an epidemic, doctors are refusing to prescribe opioids even when indicated. Compound fracture your leg and get an extra strength Tylenol because doctors are worried that they will get busted for prescribing opioids. The pendulum swing is bad for legitimate pain sufferers. And to your point about liberals, unlike the conservatives who just go kill people https://www.history.com/.image/t_sha...p-murrah-f.jpg liberals simply allow people to choose death. Wouldn't you rather have the choice? Its all about making good choices. None of that nanny conservative government telling us what to do or not do. Liberals . . . protecting your right to choose death! -- Jay Beattie. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 17:50:39 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 1:00:47 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote: On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 1:15:27 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote: The net effect of the first hundred years of near-worldwide heroin ban hasn't worked out all that well. Seems to have merely kept the price up, encouraging supply. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 The pure, theoretical, ivory tower solution is to legalise drugs, which instantly kills a lot of crime. I'm surprised that the Left, which also supports fewer people and abortion, hasn't yet twigged that cheap drugs is another eugenic solution to "too many people on Gaia." We'll see how the legalisation of cannabis works out. So far, so good, dude. My family owned a pharmacy that opened its doors in 1888 and had all sorts of ancient patent medicines stashed in the scary basement, many of which contained cocaine, heroine, marijuana -- and less fun stuff like strychnine and arsenic. My youth in the late '50s early '60s: https://storage.googleapis.com/hippo...16148838ac.jpg The old brick basement would give Edgar Allan Poe the willies. There was, as you know, a long period when all the illegal drugs were not illegal. The opiate epidemic in the late 1880s that resulted in the eventual regulation of narcotics was barely worse than the current opioid epidemic. https://www.livescience.com/60559-op...-of-1800s.html Regulation has little effect on criminals and addicts, and now that we have an epidemic, doctors are refusing to prescribe opioids even when indicated. Compound fracture your leg and get an extra strength Tylenol because doctors are worried that they will get busted for prescribing opioids. The pendulum swing is bad for legitimate pain sufferers. And to your point about liberals, unlike the conservatives who just go kill people https://www.history.com/.image/t_sha...p-murrah-f.jpg liberals simply allow people to choose death. Wouldn't you rather have the choice? Its all about making good choices. None of that nanny conservative government telling us what to do or not do. Liberals . . . protecting your right to choose death! -- Jay Beattie. While it is difficult to determine accurately it is thought that alcohol use may have actually increased after the Volstead Act was enacted. Is the current bans on certain substances actually contributing to their novelty status and actually increasing their use? I'm thinking particularly of Cocaine which was, at one time, a very up market drug and while the "gentry" might have objected to stabbing themselves in the arm they certainly didn't seem to mind snorting a little coke :-) -- cheers, John B. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On 8/2/2019 7:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 15:35:11 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 6:03:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else. Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to die!" But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ? See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/w...nyl-trump.html Fentanyl and all its variants are now controlled substances in China which, of course, does not stop illegal trade. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, Fentanyl was developed to be used as an injectable painkiller when all else fails. The people in the final stages of cancer and the like do not respond much to most of the pain killers on the market including the strongest forms of Morphine. I read somewhere that it is extremely effective and it has a very short time to peak effect - ~ 5 minutes, and it's effects only last about an hour and is seen as ideal for surgery and obstetrical anesthesia. As of 2017, fentanyl was the most widely used synthetic opioid in medicine. And Fentanyl patches for cancer pain are on the WHO List of Essential Medicines. Of course the drug dealers immediately started manufacturing it in pill form and with which it is extremely easy to misuse. -- cheers, John B. I see in today's paper that the trendlines of rural and urban OD deaths have crossed as now the old junkies, who 'know' a match head of 50% purity Heroin, are suddenly dying of Fentanyl laced smack. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On 8/2/2019 7:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 1:00:47 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote: On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 1:15:27 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote: The net effect of the first hundred years of near-worldwide heroin ban hasn't worked out all that well. Seems to have merely kept the price up, encouraging supply. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 The pure, theoretical, ivory tower solution is to legalise drugs, which instantly kills a lot of crime. I'm surprised that the Left, which also supports fewer people and abortion, hasn't yet twigged that cheap drugs is another eugenic solution to "too many people on Gaia." We'll see how the legalisation of cannabis works out. So far, so good, dude. My family owned a pharmacy that opened its doors in 1888 and had all sorts of ancient patent medicines stashed in the scary basement, many of which contained cocaine, heroine, marijuana -- and less fun stuff like strychnine and arsenic. My youth in the late '50s early '60s: https://storage.googleapis.com/hippo...16148838ac.jpg The old brick basement would give Edgar Allan Poe the willies. There was, as you know, a long period when all the illegal drugs were not illegal. The opiate epidemic in the late 1880s that resulted in the eventual regulation of narcotics was barely worse than the current opioid epidemic. https://www.livescience.com/60559-op...-of-1800s.html Regulation has little effect on criminals and addicts, and now that we have an epidemic, doctors are refusing to prescribe opioids even when indicated. Compound fracture your leg and get an extra strength Tylenol because doctors are worried that they will get busted for prescribing opioids. The pendulum swing is bad for legitimate pain sufferers. And to your point about liberals, unlike the conservatives who just go kill people https://www.history.com/.image/t_sha...p-murrah-f.jpg liberals simply allow people to choose death. Wouldn't you rather have the choice? Its all about making good choices. None of that nanny conservative government telling us what to do or not do. Liberals . . . protecting your right to choose death! -- Jay Beattie. I don't think this issue cleaves well along usual right-left political lines. You have F A Hayek, Allen Ginsberg, Milton Friedman and Abbie Hoffman together on one side... -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On 03/08/2019 01:00, John B. wrote:
snip During the 1800's Great Britain, perhaps the most powerful nation in the world, fought a number of "wars" on the N.W. Frontier and in the First Anglo-Afghan War G.B. invaded Afganstan, in 1839, with an army of 21,000 men and some 38,000 Indian camp followers and 30,000 camels to carry supplies. When the British withdrew, in 1842, the only soldier to reach Jalalabad, British India, was Dr. William Brydon . Who was it that said something about those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it? The one thing history teaches us, is it's not worth teaching history :-) |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Off Topic
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 12:06:36 +0200, Tosspot
wrote: On 03/08/2019 01:00, John B. wrote: snip During the 1800's Great Britain, perhaps the most powerful nation in the world, fought a number of "wars" on the N.W. Frontier and in the First Anglo-Afghan War G.B. invaded Afganstan, in 1839, with an army of 21,000 men and some 38,000 Indian camp followers and 30,000 camels to carry supplies. When the British withdrew, in 1842, the only soldier to reach Jalalabad, British India, was Dr. William Brydon . Who was it that said something about those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it? The one thing history teaches us, is it's not worth teaching history :-) Well, yes. The British Empire went back for "seconds" and "thirds" and the final results were that Afghanistan won their complete independence :-) -- cheers, John B. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Off topic for UK, on topic for another good laugh at cyclists | Mr Pounder Esquire | UK | 1 | May 22nd 16 09:25 PM |
Three Greatest Inventions (2/3 On Topic, 1/3 Off Topic) | Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman | General | 21 | December 19th 06 04:40 AM |
Frank exchange of words with black cabbie New Topic Reply to Topic | spindrift | UK | 50 | August 7th 06 06:25 AM |
Sort of on topic/off topic: Rising toll of kids hurt on roads | wafflycat | UK | 4 | March 24th 06 05:28 PM |
This is off topic some ... but on topic also... make up your mind | Thomas Wentworth | General | 7 | November 8th 05 09:46 PM |