Will a 29er work for college campus commute?

On 22 Oct, 15:50, " wrote:
On Oct 21, 11:49*pm, Dan O wrote:



On Oct 21, 8:00 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Oct 21, 6:37 pm, RonSonic wrote:

Hopping while clipped in is much easier. Apparently BMX and trials guys can make
the bikes stick to their feet or something.

I can do it a bit without clips, but not nearly as easily or as high.

It happens so fast it's nearly unconscious, but I think the physics
goes like this: *Rider jumps up, and pulls handlebars up after
himself. *Mass center of the bike rises while the rear wheel is still
on the ground. *Then the rider pushes down on the bars, to rotate the
bike about its mass center so it's horizontal. *The end effect is two
wheels off the ground.

Good analysis, I think. *I've never practiced it. *I think maybe
there's a forward thrust / rotation of the bars component. *Obviously
the rider cannot "pull up" on unattached pedals (it's definitely all
in the handlebars), but does use the inertia of his body to lift the
bike off the ground.

As a former BMX racer, current BMX dirt jumper, skate park and street
rider and someone with a lean toward trials style on the MTB, I'll
chime in here. *I can hop higher on my BMX, no clips, than I can on
anything I have with clips. *The way I do it is entirely weight
transfer and momentum through the handlebars. *It goes something like
lean back, into a manual (wheelie) that you know would loop out. *When
the bike passes the balance point, throw all your weight forward
(which is now 45 degrees from the ground at a minimum, likely higher,
exactly where depends on the bike).

The basics can be practiced in a much more mild way. *Lean back and
pull up on the bars to get your manual (wheelie) and then shove the
bars forward with all your weight and momentum. *It feels more natural
to throw the weight forward in relation to the ground rather than the
angle of your bike, that's fine for starting out. *The only limiting
factor is it will not allow you to hop higher than you can manual. *Be
sure you are transferring your body weight and momentum into the bars
and over the front wheel and not just pushing with your arms with your
weight still back on the pedals. *The reason we're able to control the
rear of the bike so well when doing this on a BMX with platforms is
there is basically no weight on the pedals at this point, we've thrown
all our weight and momentum into the direction we wish the bike to
go. *The pins on the platform provide sufficient bite into our
sneakers for small adjustments.

Another way to practice is to find a small rise, say 4", that is not
sharp enough to pinch your rear wheel. *Ride up to it and manual your
front wheel on, then throw your weight forward into the bars and lean
forward, lifting your rear wheel up onto the rise. *Once you can do
this, it's just a matter of speeding it up to hop up the same rise.
Then you can work on height. *BTW, practice on things/times/places
that won't get you really hurt or damage your bike (i.e. if you think
you are hopping 5", don't try to hop a 4" curb at an angle in front of
traffic). *You're never going quite as high as you think you are. *The
only way to know is to clear obstacles. *You can start with 2x4's on
their side, if you're not getting the 3.5" you'll knock it over. *Then
2x6 (for 5.5"), etc. *Once you can clear a section of 2x12 (11.5")
consistently you're ready to start looking at larger obstacles. *My
current challenge is a downed trash can, it was easy-peasy in my real
BMX days but these days I tend to clip the things.

snip

With a touring/racing bike the handlebars are lower and more stretched
out. The usual procedure is to set the pedals level and jump off them
while giving an extra bit of lift on the front which you then level
out the bike when actually airborne. I wonder if the fore-aft heaving
on the bars is actually as effective on a drop handlebar bike when
optimally set up for distance riding. I understand that you are
simply kicking off the back wheel and you need to get your c-of-g
behind the axle so as to be able to push against the ground.

" wrote:
For that ride, personally, I'd want a BMX.

wrote:
Funny you bring BMX up as there are a TON of them on
campus and ridden by younger students.
BUT.... I'm a full size adult student! Where do I get a
BMX frame and bike that fits a 200 lb adult??!

KINK, Redline, many vendors:
http://www.kinkbmx.com/home.html
http://www.redlinebicycles.com/bikes...evice-complete

20" freestyle are sold by top tube length, not frame size

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Oct 22, 11:02*am, " wrote:


Meh... *weight is overrated in this respect. *My 20" BMX is my
heaviest bike. *It's also the smallest. *It's also the one I can hop
highest, by orders of magnitude.

Hmm. I don't think I've ever tried to hop my Bike Friday New World
Tourist. And I wonder if it would try to fold itself mid-flight?

But I think I've just invented the next radical move for the guys that
do that sort of stuff: Jump a Bike Friday Tikit (the quick folding
model), fold the bike while airborne, unfold it and land it clean!

Who will be the first to try it? ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

AMuzi wrote:

BMX frame and bike that fits a 200 lb adult??!

KINK, Redline, many vendors:
http://www.kinkbmx.com/home.html
http://www.redlinebicycles.com/bikes...evice-complete

20" freestyle are sold by top tube length, not frame size

Thanks

Is it NOT possible to raise the seat up high enough for
an adult to sit down while pedaling?

Frank Krygowski wrote:

But I think I've just invented the next radical move for the guys that
do that sort of stuff: Jump a Bike Friday Tikit (the quick folding
model), fold the bike while airborne, unfold it and land it clean!

Who will be the first to try it? ;-)

Ha ha

Good one!!

BMX frame and bike that fits a 200 lb adult??!
KINK, Redline, many vendors:
http://www.kinkbmx.com/home.html
http://www.redlinebicycles.com/bikes...evice-complete

AMuzi wrote:
20" freestyle are sold by top tube length, not frame size

wrote:
Is it NOT possible to raise the seat up high enough for
an adult to sit down while pedaling?

Sit down?? What's next, a flippy flag?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAn0k9aStqA


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Oct 22, 1:58*pm, wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
BMX frame and bike that fits a 200 lb adult??!

KINK, Redline, many vendors:
http://www.kinkbmx.com/home.html
http://www.redlinebicycles.com/bikes...evice-complete

20" freestyle are sold by top tube length, not frame size

Thanks

Is it NOT possible to raise the seat up high enough for
an adult to sit down while pedaling?

To get a normal leg articulation while pedaling? I honestly don't
know, the bikes have changed so much lately checking on mine would be
somewhat pointless even if it was on hand, which it is not. In A
Muzi's post above mine, the bike shown has the seat in the typical BMX
position, slammed all the way down. It's mainly used to grab with
your knees while doing tricks, and to sit while coasting. That's the
typical BMX style - pedal all out, coast, repeat. My seat post isn't
slammed totally into the seat tube, but it's pretty close. Pedaling
while sitting my knees end up above the seat. Even if you could raise
the seat that much, you'd run into a few problems.
1) your seat would be as high as your bars, if not higher.
2) you'd have very little seat post left in the seat tube, making the
frame and/or post very likely to break.

If you want to do most of your pedaling while sitting, I'd go back to
the MTB idea. Again, I think a 29er would make a fine choice for what
you're trying to do, assuming you can hop it high enough. You may
consider going a bit small on frame size to make this easier, since
your route is short enough it won't bother you as it would on all day
rides. My 29er is a bit big, and I wish I'd gone a size smaller.
It's a lot of bike to muscle around.

BTW, that video Andy posted has a pretty good representation of how
I'd suggest learning to hop, on a much smaller scale of course.
Manual into throwing it forward, rear coming up late, etc. I can't
tell if his rear wheel clipped the quad on the final run or not, but
even if it did it would not matter much to him, as his weight is all
off that part of the bike at that point. It's the same principle
that's allowed me to hit trash cans without consequence trying to hop
over them.

Another thing worth nothing: The hop everyone including me has
described to you is not actually a bunny hop, it's a J hop since the
front comes up first. A bunny hop has both wheels leaving the ground
and the same time and is not nearly as useful, nor will it allow for
the same height or clearing of obstacles. Disregard bunny hops and
the term, what you want to do is called a J hop. Can you do this
currently with any of your bikes? If not, a 29er may be a lot of bike
to learn on, and a BMX would be ideal. If so, find somewhere to demo
a 29er and see if you can do it on that, or get ready to practice. If
not, a BMX bike would be a great way to learn this stuff. You can
pick up something entry level for a couple hundred bucks, if you plan
to go with a bigger bike once you get it down. If you plan to stick
with it, get something with sealed bearings all over, and a lengthy
top tube. Your height, budget, and current ability regarding hops
would help us help you here.

If I were to suggest something just to learn the basics of how to hop,
it would probably be something like this, unless your area has a good
craigslist system (I seem to recall you living overseas?)
http://www.danscomp.com/101140.php?cat=BIKES The unsealed hubs and
low-end everything make that a poor choice long term, but DK is a
decent bike and for under $200 with a 20.5" top tube it'd be decent
for beating around on and learning.

On Oct 22, 12:14*pm, thirty-six wrote:
On 22 Oct, 15:50, " wrote:





On Oct 21, 11:49*pm, Dan O wrote:

On Oct 21, 8:00 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Oct 21, 6:37 pm, RonSonic wrote:

Hopping while clipped in is much easier. Apparently BMX and trials guys can make
the bikes stick to their feet or something.

I can do it a bit without clips, but not nearly as easily or as high.

It happens so fast it's nearly unconscious, but I think the physics
goes like this: *Rider jumps up, and pulls handlebars up after
himself. *Mass center of the bike rises while the rear wheel is still
on the ground. *Then the rider pushes down on the bars, to rotate the
bike about its mass center so it's horizontal. *The end effect is two
wheels off the ground.

Good analysis, I think. *I've never practiced it. *I think maybe
there's a forward thrust / rotation of the bars component. *Obviously
the rider cannot "pull up" on unattached pedals (it's definitely all
in the handlebars), but does use the inertia of his body to lift the
bike off the ground.

As a former BMX racer, current BMX dirt jumper, skate park and street
rider and someone with a lean toward trials style on the MTB, I'll
chime in here. *I can hop higher on my BMX, no clips, than I can on
anything I have with clips. *The way I do it is entirely weight
transfer and momentum through the handlebars. *It goes something like
lean back, into a manual (wheelie) that you know would loop out. *When
the bike passes the balance point, throw all your weight forward
(which is now 45 degrees from the ground at a minimum, likely higher,
exactly where depends on the bike).

The basics can be practiced in a much more mild way. *Lean back and
pull up on the bars to get your manual (wheelie) and then shove the
bars forward with all your weight and momentum. *It feels more natural
to throw the weight forward in relation to the ground rather than the
angle of your bike, that's fine for starting out. *The only limiting
factor is it will not allow you to hop higher than you can manual. *Be
sure you are transferring your body weight and momentum into the bars
and over the front wheel and not just pushing with your arms with your
weight still back on the pedals. *The reason we're able to control the
rear of the bike so well when doing this on a BMX with platforms is
there is basically no weight on the pedals at this point, we've thrown
all our weight and momentum into the direction we wish the bike to
go. *The pins on the platform provide sufficient bite into our
sneakers for small adjustments.

Another way to practice is to find a small rise, say 4", that is not
sharp enough to pinch your rear wheel. *Ride up to it and manual your
front wheel on, then throw your weight forward into the bars and lean
forward, lifting your rear wheel up onto the rise. *Once you can do
this, it's just a matter of speeding it up to hop up the same rise.
Then you can work on height. *BTW, practice on things/times/places
that won't get you really hurt or damage your bike (i.e. if you think
you are hopping 5", don't try to hop a 4" curb at an angle in front of
traffic). *You're never going quite as high as you think you are. *The
only way to know is to clear obstacles. *You can start with 2x4's on
their side, if you're not getting the 3.5" you'll knock it over. *Then
2x6 (for 5.5"), etc. *Once you can clear a section of 2x12 (11.5")
consistently you're ready to start looking at larger obstacles. *My
current challenge is a downed trash can, it was easy-peasy in my real
BMX days but these days I tend to clip the things.

snip

With a touring/racing bike the handlebars are lower and more stretched
out. *The usual procedure is to set the pedals level and jump off them
while giving an extra bit of lift on the front which you then level
out the bike when actually airborne. *I wonder if the fore-aft heaving
on the bars is actually as effective on a drop handlebar bike when
optimally set up for distance riding. *I understand that you are
simply kicking off the back wheel and you need to get your c-of-g
behind the axle so as to be able to push against the ground.

The type of hop I describe is fairly hard on the bike. Most bikes
will take it no problem, and the higher you get the easier it is to
soften the landing by absorbing it with your body, but I still cringe
a bit doing it on my road bike due to the low spoke count and CF fork
and rear triangle. I don't mind hopping up onto a curb or something
as I'm essentially hopping to the height I'm landing, but I don't like
hopping over things (i.e. pothole, debris) just because I'm
uncomfortable with landing hard on low spoke wheels. They're probably
stronger than I give them credit for, but I know a broken spoke on
them would be an issue. On my BMX, which has Peregrine HP 48 superpro
48 spoke wheels, broken spokes don't matter. I've been abusing these
same wheels for 12+ years and while they both started as 48's it's
probably 47/46 or 46/45 at this point, and they still both run
perfectly true. The beauty of such a small diameter wheel, a high
flange hub and 48 spokes...

What boggles my mind is people who can hop them well from the drops.
I have to go to the upper bar section to do it.

On 23 Oct, 16:35, " wrote:
On Oct 22, 12:14*pm, thirty-six wrote:



On 22 Oct, 15:50, " wrote:

On Oct 21, 11:49*pm, Dan O wrote:

On Oct 21, 8:00 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Oct 21, 6:37 pm, RonSonic wrote:

Hopping while clipped in is much easier. Apparently BMX and trials guys can make
the bikes stick to their feet or something.

I can do it a bit without clips, but not nearly as easily or as high.

It happens so fast it's nearly unconscious, but I think the physics
goes like this: *Rider jumps up, and pulls handlebars up after
himself. *Mass center of the bike rises while the rear wheel is still
on the ground. *Then the rider pushes down on the bars, to rotate the
bike about its mass center so it's horizontal. *The end effect is two
wheels off the ground.

Good analysis, I think. *I've never practiced it. *I think maybe
there's a forward thrust / rotation of the bars component. *Obviously
the rider cannot "pull up" on unattached pedals (it's definitely all
in the handlebars), but does use the inertia of his body to lift the
bike off the ground.

As a former BMX racer, current BMX dirt jumper, skate park and street
rider and someone with a lean toward trials style on the MTB, I'll
chime in here. *I can hop higher on my BMX, no clips, than I can on
anything I have with clips. *The way I do it is entirely weight
transfer and momentum through the handlebars. *It goes something like
lean back, into a manual (wheelie) that you know would loop out. *When
the bike passes the balance point, throw all your weight forward
(which is now 45 degrees from the ground at a minimum, likely higher,
exactly where depends on the bike).

The basics can be practiced in a much more mild way. *Lean back and
pull up on the bars to get your manual (wheelie) and then shove the
bars forward with all your weight and momentum. *It feels more natural
to throw the weight forward in relation to the ground rather than the
angle of your bike, that's fine for starting out. *The only limiting
factor is it will not allow you to hop higher than you can manual. *Be
sure you are transferring your body weight and momentum into the bars
and over the front wheel and not just pushing with your arms with your
weight still back on the pedals. *The reason we're able to control the
rear of the bike so well when doing this on a BMX with platforms is
there is basically no weight on the pedals at this point, we've thrown
all our weight and momentum into the direction we wish the bike to
go. *The pins on the platform provide sufficient bite into our
sneakers for small adjustments.

Another way to practice is to find a small rise, say 4", that is not
sharp enough to pinch your rear wheel. *Ride up to it and manual your
front wheel on, then throw your weight forward into the bars and lean
forward, lifting your rear wheel up onto the rise. *Once you can do
this, it's just a matter of speeding it up to hop up the same rise.
Then you can work on height. *BTW, practice on things/times/places
that won't get you really hurt or damage your bike (i.e. if you think
you are hopping 5", don't try to hop a 4" curb at an angle in front of
traffic). *You're never going quite as high as you think you are. *The
only way to know is to clear obstacles. *You can start with 2x4's on
their side, if you're not getting the 3.5" you'll knock it over. *Then
2x6 (for 5.5"), etc. *Once you can clear a section of 2x12 (11.5")
consistently you're ready to start looking at larger obstacles. *My
current challenge is a downed trash can, it was easy-peasy in my real
BMX days but these days I tend to clip the things.

snip

With a touring/racing bike the handlebars are lower and more stretched
out. *The usual procedure is to set the pedals level and jump off them
while giving an extra bit of lift on the front which you then level
out the bike when actually airborne. *I wonder if the fore-aft heaving
on the bars is actually as effective on a drop handlebar bike when
optimally set up for distance riding. *I understand that you are
simply kicking off the back wheel and you need to get your c-of-g
behind the axle so as to be able to push against the ground.

The type of hop I describe is fairly hard on the bike. *Most bikes
will take it no problem, and the higher you get the easier it is to
soften the landing by absorbing it with your body, but I still cringe
a bit doing it on my road bike due to the low spoke count and CF fork
and rear triangle. *I don't mind hopping up onto a curb or something
as I'm essentially hopping to the height I'm landing, but I don't like
hopping over things (i.e. pothole, debris) just because I'm
uncomfortable with landing hard on low spoke wheels. *They're probably
stronger than I give them credit for, but I know a broken spoke on
them would be an issue. *On my BMX, which has Peregrine HP 48 superpro
48 spoke wheels, broken spokes don't matter. *I've been abusing these
same wheels for 12+ years and while they both started as 48's it's
probably 47/46 or 46/45 at this point, and they still both run
perfectly true. *The beauty of such a small diameter wheel, a high
flange hub and 48 spokes...

What boggles my mind is people who can hop them well from the drops.
I have to go to the upper bar section to do it.

You have little time to move your hands at over 30mph. Jumping up 4"
is generally little trouble if you practise the procedure on a daily
basis. The 12" high jump I'm not sure can be perfomed without prior
warning. But practicing this would definitely help in avoiding injury
should the need arise to use it in an emergency. If you had more
trustworthy wheels what height do you think you could clear on a
'racer'.

Slight modification to previous post for clarity.

On 23 Oct, 21:35, thirty-six wrote:
Dan wrote:

What boggles my mind is people who can hop them well from the drops.
I have to go to the upper bar section to do it.

You have little time to move your hands at over 30mph. *Jumping up 4"
is generally little trouble if you practise the procedure on a daily
basis. *The 12" high jump I'm not sure can be perfomed without prior
warning. *But practicing this would definitely help in avoiding injury
should the need arise to use it in an emergency.

So Dan, if you had more trustworthy wheels what height do you think
you could clear on a 'racer'?


[Be quiet, Ron.]