Flipping the bike over to work on it

On Oct 23, 3:19*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
schreef:





On Oct 23, 2:47 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Chalo schreef:

Dyrty wrote:
I notice that bicycle shop employees do flat tires on a bicycle
stand. *This doesn't make sense to me because on a bike stand you need
a "third arm" to re-mount the wheel on the bicycle against gravity.
But when the bike is upside down on the ground, the axle usually slips
right in to the dropouts. *I can then easily see if something is out
of alignment, out of true, etc.
I would never set a customer's bike upside-down on the ground because
there are too many ways to mess it up that way-- kinking cable
housings, scratching brake lever clamps, staining bar tape, etc.
Plus, it's easy to inadvertently knock the bike over from that
position.
My point exactly. No respect for the bike.

Lou

I guess I fall into this class. *I could care less if I scratch the
shifters, it can't be any worse than crashing and I've done that on
and off road on my road bike. *I am meticulous with taking care of it,
keeping everything shifting perfect, checking chain wear, etc. but a
couple scratches on a plastic bit? *Whatever.

It is just not necessary.
When you come home you smack the bike on the ground or with the RD
against the brick wall, another habit of that class.
Once I sold my brothes nice and expensive roadbike to a friend of my for
his son. He got it for a great price. My brother had taken good care of
the bike for 5 years. The first ride the bike fell on the ground two
times because he didn't pay attention while leaning the bike against the
wall TWICE. *Fork scratched, handbartape loose and brake lever
scratched. It was his bike but it ****ed me off anyway.

Lou

I never have smacked a derailler against the ground, excluding falls.
I never, ever put a bike down driveside down. I don't lean them
carelessly against things. The type of stuff you describe is pure
neglect to the mechanical components, which is a lot different than a
scratch that's purely aesthetic. Like I said, I have tried the right
side up wheel change, it doesn't go nearly as easily for me. The bike
is also then placed on it's side with a wheel missing, which is likely
to result in scratching on the frame, something I would care about,
unlike scratches on the hoods.

What you describe would have ****ed me off too, even if I'd already
sold the bike. It's hardly comparable to changing tires with a bike
upside down.

thirty-six wrote:

RonSonic wrote:

thirty-six wrote:

Why you not got a chain hanger pip? *All my QR axle bike frames have
had a chain hanger pip.

Apparently that's considered a premium item nowadays.

Some people are missing theirs from having forgotten about it after a wheel
change. "Ping!"

Aluminium frames?

The only aluminum frames I noticed having chain hangers were old
Cannondales. Those used a riveted-on plastic thingy that corresponded
to the riveted-on plastic cable guides they used during the same time
period. Neither of those items could withstand any physical
challenges. I managed to break chain hangers off of Cannondales
without ever having used them.

Chalo

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:44:03 -0700, Bill Baka
wrote:

Simon Lewis wrote:
bfd writes:

Agree. When I see people who work on their bikes "upside down," I just
presume they're newbies....
Why would you presume that? I always flip the bike. Primarily so as not
to have the chain dragging on the ground.

There is nothing wrong with flipping the bike at all.
I'm 61 so hardly a newbie and I always flip the bike when not at home,
especially for the rear wheel. The third arm would come in handy when
fumbling with the chain and rear dérailleur. I just try to find some
grass and not ruin the seat on gravel but will put my shirt down if need
be. Bicycles are *NOT* rocket science.

Bill Baka
I'd still like to see someone change the rear tire on, say, my Raleigh
Centenial with full road fenders, upright on the stand, without
additional help.

I haven't dealt with fenders in a long time but when I was about ten I
had a 27" full fendered bike and I remember step one....remove the
fender. I guess 50 years of progress does not apply to everything.

Bill Baka

Clive George wrote:

On the original thread topic, I was very pleased to be working on two bikes
today, one upside-down and one lying on the front wheel + handlebars
(drops), with the frame at 90 degrees and leaning against a door.

However both were on carpet or cushion vinyl, so no potential to damage
anything. And it was my wife rather than me who leant the mucky wheel
against the sofa :-)

Last night, I found myself flipping my 29er upside down in the living
room to do a particularly vexatious wheel change (gearhub, drum brake,
very tight custom non-turn washer, limited tire clearance, and a tire
that wanted nothing more than to blow off the rim at a whopping 40
psi). The bike has flanged BMX style grips, and the shifter is
located elsewhere, so there was nothing in particular to get scratched
up.

The saddle is (for the moment) a particularly disgraceful cast
urethane foam unit, so a little patina could only help. No signs of
wear and tear from being used as the contact patch, though.

Chalo

On 26 Oct, 00:28, RonSonic wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:38:43 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:



On 25 Oct, 19:48, RonSonic wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:14:42 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

On 24 Oct, 12:43, Ben C wrote:
On 2009-10-23, Simon Lewis wrote:

bfd writes:

On Oct 23, 7:55*am, Art Harris wrote:
Dyrty wrote:
When I fix a flat tire or do other wheel work I like to work on it
while the bicycle is upside down on the ground. *

I notice that bicycle shop employees do flat tires on a bicycle
stand. *This doesn't make sense to me because on a bike stand you need
a "third arm" to re-mount the wheel on the bicycle against gravity.

If you get a flat on the road, it's much easier to remove and re-
install a wheel (especially a rear wheel on a derailleur bike) when
the bike is upright. Try it.

I don't follow your "third arm" argument.

Agree. When I see people who work on their bikes "upside down," I just
presume they're newbies....

Why would you presume that? I always flip the bike. Primarily so as not
to have the chain dragging on the ground.

I usually wear a pointless plastic hat when riding so I use that as a
sort of axle stand under the bottom bracket to keep the chain and
derailleur off the ground, while leaning the bike against a tree or
similar.

There is nothing wrong with flipping the bike at all.

I don't like it mainly because it scuffs up the seat and handlebar. Art
Harris is right that getting the back wheel in and out is very easy with
the bike the right way up. Better still if they gave you a little
braze-on inside the chainstay to hook the chain over.

Why you not got a chain hanger pip? *All my QR axle bike frames have
had a chain hanger pip.

Apparently that's considered a premium item nowadays.

Some people are missing theirs from having forgotten about it after a wheel
change. "Ping!"

Aluminium frames?

I've not done it myself, but am told that you can pop them off a steel frame by
forgetting that the chain is up on it when you hit the pedals.

I don't think so, not when they are brazed in place. When I had the
misfortune to use high pressure tyres and quick release axles, not
only did I occasionally forget to close the QR fully I also tended to
regularly suffer from forgetting to unhook the chain from the pip
after many a puncture repair. The chain would roll over the pip when
pedalling and I could feel the diffference so stop and unhook it. I
can only think that the report that you have had is either false or
has been from a weakly attached pip.

Simon Lewis wrote:
bfd writes:

On Oct 23, 7:55 am, Art Harris wrote:
Dyrty wrote:
When I fix a flat tire or do other wheel work I like to work on it
while the bicycle is upside down on the ground.
I notice that bicycle shop employees do flat tires on a bicycle
stand. This doesn't make sense to me because on a bike stand you need
a "third arm" to re-mount the wheel on the bicycle against gravity.
If you get a flat on the road, it's much easier to remove and re-
install a wheel (especially a rear wheel on a derailleur bike) when
the bike is upright. Try it.

I don't follow your "third arm" argument.

I used to think that putting wheels in an upright (oriented) frame was
easy too. Then I bought a bike that had disc brakes.....


Agree. When I see people who work on their bikes "upside down," I just
presume they're newbies....

Why would you presume that? I always flip the bike. Primarily so as not
to have the chain dragging on the ground.

There is nothing wrong with flipping the bike at all.

I agree.

If one has a type of bicycle that cannot be flipped so that it stands up
on its own (without damage) then perhaps it is the /bicycle/ that should
be changed to allow the maneuver, and not the rider's work habits.

With both of mine I can't do it directly because of all the fancy little
parts clamped to the handlebars. In both those cases (when I'm at home)
I stand the stem up on a couple milk crates to keep the bike's weight
from resting on the bars, but making up a couple of "standing
protectors" to clamp to the bars shouldn't be difficult. If you had
straight bars with separate bar-ends, you could just quickly loosen the
bar-ends ,reposition them sticking straight "up", and re-tighten for the
fixit maneuver.

------

Slightly off-topic, but concerning incorrectly-oriented bicycles:

With some recumbent bikes (BikeE's I have seen, but there are others
possible) and depending on the seat adjustment, it is possible to flip
the bike backwards so that it stand up pointed vertically, on the three
support points of the rear tire, and the left and right tops of the seat
back. This is useful in that it makes for a somewhat-more compact
storage, since the bike essentially gets taller, but not as long, and
doesn't take up as much floor space.

I have pondered that it could also be possible to construct a rear rack
for a conventional (upright) bicycle the same way, but can't recall ever
seeing anyone who had done so.
~

On 26 Oct, 12:42, DougC wrote:

There is nothing wrong with flipping the bike at all.

I agree.

If one has a type of bicycle that cannot be flipped so that it stands up
on its own (without damage) then perhaps it is the /bicycle/ that should
be changed to allow the maneuver, and not the rider's work habits.

That's certainly a valid possibility.

With both of mine I can't do it directly because of all the fancy little
parts clamped to the handlebars. In both those cases (when I'm at home)
I stand the stem up on a couple milk crates to keep the bike's weight
from resting on the bars, but making up a couple of "standing
protectors" to clamp to the bars shouldn't be difficult. If you had
straight bars with separate bar-ends, you could just quickly loosen the
bar-ends ,reposition them sticking straight "up", and re-tighten for the
fixit maneuver.

Aren't crates just ace for working on and from?

* ------

Slightly off-topic, but concerning incorrectly-oriented bicycles:

With some recumbent bikes (BikeE's I have seen, but there are others
possible) and depending on the seat adjustment, it is possible to flip
the bike backwards so that it stand up pointed vertically, on the three
support points of the rear tire, and the left and right tops of the seat
back. This is useful in that it makes for a somewhat-more compact
storage, since the bike essentially gets taller, but not as long, and
doesn't take up as much floor space.

I have pondered that it could also be possible to construct a rear rack
for a conventional (upright) bicycle the same way, but can't recall ever
seeing anyone who had done so.

That may be because a rear mudguard would get in the way of the
simplest type of support and the handlebars will project at upper arm/
shoulder level. It is better to stand the bike on the front tyre and
brake levers and leaning the chain side onto a wall. A support block
under the handlebars/brake levers may help to set the bike at a more
desirable and stable angle. If you have a full front rack, I guess
this will provide the correct support as long as the wheel is strapped
to the frame with a garden tie and the rear of the bike, now in the
air is again leaned against a wall.

In article ,
DougC wrote:

I have pondered that it could also be possible to construct a rear rack
for a conventional (upright) bicycle the same way, but can't recall ever
seeing anyone who had done so.

The rack on my bike is 90% there. It's of the seat bolt-on variety, and
the length makes it almost exactly flush with the back wheel. Any time
I'm using a small elevator, I always shift it vertically that way and
make myself the third point. The only reason the rack itself isn't good
enough is because the back edge is curved. Were it straight, it could
stand up that way all by itself, although the rack isn't nearly as wide
as I'd like for real stability in that position.

--
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and probably your server, too.

In article 60b40a5e-9c34-4d0c-97d1-04f468138d26
@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com, says...
On Oct 23, 8:51*am, bfd wrote:

Agree. When I see people who work on their bikes "upside down," I just
presume they're newbies....


In fact, the OP should read this Bicycle FAQ on working on bikes
upside-down:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/upside-down.html


Quote: "Nothing can be done to a bicycle upside-down that cannot be done
better with it right-side-up, except to spin the rear wheel..."

True, with two exceptions:
1) Reading the serial number.
2) In a bike with an 'oil' shock at the front - it is good practice to
leave the bike upside down for a few hours once a month to ensure the
oil seals remaoin moist.

Mike

"mike" wrote in message
...

2) In a bike with an 'oil' shock at the front - it is good practice to
leave the bike upside down for a few hours once a month to ensure the
oil seals remaoin moist.

Not on mine :-)

(irritating design feature - if you have an air leak in the high pressure
bit, the low pressure bit gets pumped up and pushes oil past the seal, or
worst case blows the entire seal off. And that oil is immediately above the
brake :-( Fortunately we no longer have an air leak in the high pressure
bit, but it took a bit of finding)