Newcommer. Questions on fast unicycles

i can't answer your questions, but i just wanted to say the first thing
that came to mind when i saw that was "ow that must give you a
backache"


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unitoon

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Neat idea, but lots of feedback so far indicating that it may not offer
any real advantage. Two points to consider:
1. A freewheeling crankset (pedal arms and pedals - seperate from the
chain and chain rings) was the novel idea behind the Schwinn World
Traveller ten speed (circa 1982?), which allowed shifting on-the-fly,
and, in this application would allow grabbing the hand "pedals" and
keeping them stationary while still pedaling with your feet. That
would fix the flailing hands when trying to add arm effort to climb
hills or increase speed. It would also allow you to get your hands and
feet into a comfortable rhythum.
2. Instead of trying to do this with a unicycle, it would seem more
feasible on a monocycle (with the rider inside the wheel), or is that a
forbidden topic?


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mhall9150
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Mikefule wrote:

The Tour de France involves high speed riding uphill and down hill for
long distances. If there were any advantage for hand/foot combined
power in this type of riding, someone somewhere would have made the
point, even if the rules had not allowed them to enter the race.




The Tour de France and other similar UCI events are really bad examples
as far as bike evolution goes though, for two reasons. First the
obvious one that in order to make it a 'pure athletic challenge' they
don't allow funny bikes, which basically haven't evolved much since
1934. Secondly, drafting, which means that there's a massive advantage
to having the same shape bike as everyone else, and far fewer
advantages to having super streamlined bikes.

Outside the UCI, the HPV hour record is about 1.7 times as fast as the
limited one, and that's usually on a pretty wacky bike. A couple of the
IHPVA world records in the late 70s were done on hand and foot cranked
bikes.

One thing that's really important in a unicycle design is to design
what happens in a crash, something to protect the rider from the
chainring in front of them would be nice, and to protect the chainring
from hitting the ground.

I think for really good riders, forward backward balance isn't a
massive issue once they've got going. Because of this, I reckon a much
more extreme version of this design would be possible, where the rider
lies down over a relatively small wheel, with a chain drive from their
feet which are behind the wheel, and either a handle or your weirdy
extra cranks thing to hold onto in front of the wheel. Obviously it'd
only be any good for very smooth tracks, but for a pure speed record
ride it could just be worth doing. If it was very low down, it'd be
simple enough to fit bumpers off the frame that slid on the ground in
the case of a crash, leaving the rider's hands or feet protected, and
stopping the unicycle tipping.

Joe


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joemarshall

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This is getting closer and closer to the "fully fared recumbent egg
unicycle" we were discussing in the pub at the muni weekend! Wouldn't
steering be pretty near impossible with that prone position (moments of
inertia and all that)?

Rob


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For combined arm and leg power these things are supposed to be pretty
efficient:

http://www.rowingbike.com/main.php

I don't think it'd translate well to unicyling but as JF says, nearly
anything is ridable


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nickjb
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It seems that not.

There's very fiew information on their site. I watchet carefully
wideos. It seems they have problems going up the hill. and it seems it
is slow vehicle.

There's some theory on rowing/ cycling comparison

http://tinyurl.com/zp2as


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mozg
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If using gyro stabilizer and hands only drive something like that could
be done. What i like about this is that if that bike would be faired,
it would be very small and probably fast.

[image: http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9...itled1aw6.gif]

What if hands alone can consumpt all O2 lungs can provide...


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mozg
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mozg wrote:
What if hands alone can consumpt all O2 lungs can provide...


They still won't provide as much power as the legs. That last set of
drawings is fascinating...unless you're claustrophobic. I don't know if
you left enough room for that guy to inhale...

But I don't agree with the earlier comment that front-back balance is a
"done deal" for experienced riders. Side-to-side balance is only an
issue for beginner riders. Once you're moving, it's easy to deal with.
But front-to-back is always what you have to maintain, and it gets
harders once you gear up the wheel. I learned this very powerfully when
I rode Roger Davies' Schlumpf Coker in the Marathon at Unicon. It took
a very high level of concentration to stay up on it, which made me
slower than I otherwise could have been. And I'm a very experienced
rider. More practice will make me better I'm sure, but front-back
balance will be *more* of an issue, not less, as you spread the body
away from the vertical.

I have some low handles out front on my own Coker, which put me into a
semi-aero position. My worry is that the further down I go, the less
stable I feel in front-back balancing. Also, the more vulnerable I am
in a crash, because my body position is poorly suited to running out of
a forward dismount. I'll already be in that last stumbling position you
reach before falling forward, head-first.

But, if the goal is speed, the position must be aero. It will probably
be a risk riders have to take to break unlimited speed records. Also if
your goal is for it to be effective, rather than just experiments in
different odd designs, don't worry about hand-cranking. I'd start with
Ken Looie's 30-degree back angle, a geared wheel, and work from there.
Ultimately with a design that allows the handlebars to be adjusted for
various body positions.


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johnfoss wrote:


I have some low handles out front on my own Coker, which put me into a
semi-aero position. My worry is that the further down I go, the less
stable I feel in front-back balancing. Also, the more vulnerable I am
in a crash, because my body position is poorly suited to running out of
a forward dismount. I'll already be in that last stumbling position you
reach before falling forward, head-first.

But, if the goal is speed, the position must be aero. It will probably
be a risk riders have to take to break unlimited speed records. Also if
your goal is for it to be effective, rather than just experiments in
different odd designs, don't worry about hand-cranking. I'd start with
Ken Looi's 30-degree back angle, a geared wheel, and work from there.
Ultimately with a design that allows the handlebars to be adjusted for
various body positions.



I find it more stable to be in a low-down position at speed- you lower
your centre of gravity and are therefore less likely to get thrown off
if you hit a bump. And it's probably more aero too

Ok....maybe not quite 30 degrees, but you get the idea....


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The Monguni tour 2008....
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Ken, I think you and Pete have two of the more forward riding styles
I've seen. I'd like to evolve mine more that direction, but I'm still
pretty much a straight up guy.

Mozq, the unicycle in the pic below is probably one of the "fastest
potential" speed machines out there today. Pete can correct me if I get
it wrong, but I think the gearing ratio on this was 1:1.87, or a 67
inch wheel. I'm not sure how fast Pete has had it going, but put it in
the hands of one of the expert young'uns with no kids or sense of self
preservation, and it could certainly set a new unicycle "land speed
record".

Your design looks cool, but I question the value-add of the hand
cranks. Excess hand movement on a unicycle--unless directed
specifically at maintaining balance--would be de-stabilizing IMHO. At
least for the majority of riders.


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