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London cyclist mows down an MP



 
 
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  #31  
Old June 20th 14, 09:19 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default London cyclist mows down an MP

On 19/06/2014 19:43, Nick wrote:
On 19/06/2014 19:36, Mrcheerful wrote:
.

Bicycles can and do kill and maim people, they should operate under the
same set of laws as all other road vehicles.


Vehicles operate under different laws suitable for the type of vehicle.
Suggesting one set of rules is silly.


How about one rule out of many: "Do not run people over"?


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  #32  
Old June 20th 14, 09:23 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default London cyclist mows down an MP

On 19/06/2014 21:30, Nick wrote:
On 19/06/2014 20:48, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 19/06/2014 20:17, Nick wrote:
On 19/06/2014 19:55, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 19/06/2014 19:43, Nick wrote:
On 19/06/2014 19:36, Mrcheerful wrote:
.

Bicycles can and do kill and maim people, they should operate under
the
same set of laws as all other road vehicles.


Vehicles operate under different laws suitable for the type of
vehicle.
Suggesting one set of rules is silly.

What rules do you think the cyclist broke in this case?

Failing to give way to a pedestrian, particularly since it was at a
point where any sensible road user would be expecting to encounter
pedestrians, and would take the appropriate action, such as slowing,
sounding their means of warning and being able and prepared to stop if
necessary or take avoiding action.

IPSGA would have prevented the collision.
Information: such as :crossing place, stationary traffic, mode of
approach, time of day, other traffic and their position, sight lines.

Position: by making an extra lane amongst stationary traffic extra
caution needs to be taken, and can you be seen by others?, including
pedestrians. Is this the best position for the hazard?

Speed: slow down as needed even to a crawl or stop.

Gear: correct gear needed to accelerate after the hazard.

Accelerate: appropriate level for the conditions.

I'm not sure this is case of failure to give way as I suspect the
pedestrian was not visible. Whilst this is actually very good advice
that I support, it goes way beyond the duty of care that we see commonly
exercised by motorists.

Anyway I'm happy to support your suggestions as to appropriate road
behaviour. I had thought that since Doug had left the group I was alone
in supporting such caution.


So the cyclist was travelling too fast for the conditions, no-one
justmaterialises in your way.


That would be Doug's view. However I'm a little more realistic and
realize that the proximity of road traffic and pedestrians means that
absolute avoidance of collisions is impossible when a pedestrian steps
out from behind a stationary vehicles. When such collisions are possible
I believe road traffic should slow so that if such collisions do occur
it is not at speeds which are likely to cause severe damage. One of the
reasons I support a 20mph speed limit in built up areas.

This slow speed appears to have been the case in this instance, judging
by the minor injuries, so I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Are
you saying that cars and bikes should always slow to such a speed that
they will not collide with a pedestrian stepping unexpectedly into the
carriageway?


When approaching a spot where the pedestrian pathway onto the
carriageway is visually obscured (eg, in the case of overtaking a
stationary bus or any similar sightline interruption), one is obliged to
proceed at a speed where one can stop if something appears from the
blind spot into one's path. I do exactly that - don't you?

That is nowhere near being the same as being obliged to proceed all the
time as though a - visible - pedestrian will dart out into the road, so
your "argument" is a strawman - isn't it?
  #33  
Old June 20th 14, 09:25 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default London cyclist mows down an MP

On 19/06/2014 19:54, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 17:51:41 +0100, Mrcheerful
wrote:

http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/new...list-1-6683046


From the report, it sounds as if the MP was jaywalking and was hit by
a cyclist filtering past stationary motor vehicles.


There is no such thing as jaywalking in London.

Cyclists "filtering past stationary motor vehicles" (aka queue-jumping)
are not free of responsibility for watching where they are going.
  #34  
Old June 20th 14, 10:00 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
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Posts: 2,958
Default London cyclist mows down an MP

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 09:25:52 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 19/06/2014 19:54, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 17:51:41 +0100, Mrcheerful
wrote:

http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/new...list-1-6683046


From the report, it sounds as if the MP was jaywalking and was hit by
a cyclist filtering past stationary motor vehicles.


There is no such thing as jaywalking in London.


Yes there is.

Cyclists "filtering past stationary motor vehicles" (aka queue-jumping)
are not free of responsibility for watching where they are going.


I do not disagree.

Likewise, MPs crossing the road are not free of responsibility for
watching where they are going.
  #35  
Old June 20th 14, 10:30 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default London cyclist mows down an MP

On 20/06/2014 10:00, Bertie Wooster wrote:

JNugent wrote:
On 19/06/2014 19:54, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 17:51:41 +0100, Mrcheerful


http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/new...list-1-6683046


From the report, it sounds as if the MP was jaywalking and was hit by
a cyclist filtering past stationary motor vehicles.


There is no such thing as jaywalking in London.


Yes there is.


Wrong.

There is a certain amount of road mileage where neither pedestrians nor
cyclists are allowed, but this incident clearly did not take place in
such a location.

Cyclists "filtering past stationary motor vehicles" (aka queue-jumping)
are not free of responsibility for watching where they are going.


I do not disagree.


Likewise, MPs crossing the road are not free of responsibility for
watching where they are going.


All pedestrians are entitled to assume that others will behave
reasonably. Travel would be impossible otherwise.
  #36  
Old June 20th 14, 11:48 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
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Posts: 11,000
Default London cyclist mows down an MP

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 08:27:17 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 22:37:57 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 19:54:08 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 17:51:41 +0100, Mrcheerful
wrote:

http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/new...list-1-6683046

From the report, it sounds as if the MP was jaywalking and was hit by
a cyclist filtering past stationary motor vehicles.



I see that very biased anti-cyclist web page
(http://road.cc/content/news/121478-l...es-him-bruised)
has a different point of view:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is unclear whether the cyclist was riding through a red light at the time,
or whether Mr Perkins was crossing at a green pedestrian signal, although from
a subsequent exchange, the implication is that the rider ignored a traffic
signal.

Political commentator Owen Jones, author of the books Chavs and The
Establishment, leapt to the defence of the capital’s bike riders, and received
a reply from the MP which suggested the cyclist had ridden through a red light.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mind you - I find it very difficult to believe that the cyclist had a total
disregard for the law.


Of course, MPs are never evasive about facts, and are always honest
and straight talking.

I wonder how massive those bruises are...

And if the "knocking off the feet" means that he jumped backwards when
after he stepped into the road without looking.



You are quite correct: the cyclist most probably did nothing wrong at all - and
the story is a total fabrication
  #37  
Old June 20th 14, 11:55 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
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Posts: 2,958
Default London cyclist mows down an MP

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 11:48:41 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 08:27:17 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 22:37:57 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 19:54:08 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 17:51:41 +0100, Mrcheerful
wrote:

http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/new...list-1-6683046

From the report, it sounds as if the MP was jaywalking and was hit by
a cyclist filtering past stationary motor vehicles.


I see that very biased anti-cyclist web page
(http://road.cc/content/news/121478-l...es-him-bruised)
has a different point of view:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is unclear whether the cyclist was riding through a red light at the time,
or whether Mr Perkins was crossing at a green pedestrian signal, although from
a subsequent exchange, the implication is that the rider ignored a traffic
signal.

Political commentator Owen Jones, author of the books Chavs and The
Establishment, leapt to the defence of the capital’s bike riders, and received
a reply from the MP which suggested the cyclist had ridden through a red light.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mind you - I find it very difficult to believe that the cyclist had a total
disregard for the law.


Of course, MPs are never evasive about facts, and are always honest
and straight talking.

I wonder how massive those bruises are...

And if the "knocking off the feet" means that he jumped backwards when
after he stepped into the road without looking.



You are quite correct: the cyclist most probably did nothing wrong at all - and
the story is a total fabrication


That is certainly a possibility, but I expect the story was based on a
real event.
  #38  
Old June 21st 14, 04:41 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bret Cahill[_4_]
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Posts: 58
Default London cyclist mows down an MP

http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/new...list-1-6683046

In an nutshell, as he said: "but so many I see will do anything to prevent

having to stop."


Regenerative braking would save the cyclists' knees and encourage complete stops. Spiral springs shouldn't weigh too much. Instead of braking with calipers the cyclist engages the spring to stop and accelerate.

Not that I'm a great advocate of nice looking cities, but if you do decide to have a pretty place like London then people should be able to _see_ it.

You can't do this with cars smogging up the air.


Bret Cahill

  #39  
Old June 26th 14, 07:05 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
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Posts: 11,000
Default London cyclist mows down an MP

On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 01:44:18 +0100, Phil W Lee wrote:

Nick considered Thu, 19 Jun 2014 19:27:30
+0100 the perfect time to write:

On 19/06/2014 18:53, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 19/06/2014 18:03, Nick wrote:
On 19/06/2014 17:51, Mrcheerful wrote:
http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/new...list-1-6683046




Its not clear from this report why the MP was indignant.


Because vehicles, including bicycles need to take care to avoid running
down people or crashing into things. It is a basic tenet of road use.


Yes this is true and that duty of care should be scaled on the speed and
amount of damage the vehicle will cause if it does crash into something.

However it sounds very much like our MP stepped out into traffic from
behind a car without looking. So whilst our cyclist may bear some
culpability. I suspect our MP was crossing the road, close to but not at
a traffic light, very much in the spirit of "doing anything to prevent
having to stop". So one wonders if we are dealing with a hypocrite.


It's an MP - why wonder?



Hello, hello, hello : it's M'Lud at a quarter to two in the morning again.

Had a good drink have you? I bet it wasn't coffee: I suppose that you have to
keep your work and leisure activities quite separate.

 




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