Electronic shifting system

jim beam wrote:
sounds like a very interesting system nevertheless. any online
resources for this?

Hey, just remembered I uploaded the manual for someone once:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/mavmek.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 00:03:15 -0500, A Muzi
wrote:

jim beam wrote:
sounds like a very interesting system nevertheless. any online
resources for this?

Hey, just remembered I uploaded the manual for someone once:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/mavmek.html

Dear Andrew,

The operating temperature range from 23F to 112F reminds me of a
long-ago test of an electrically-fired shotgun, intended to reduce
what's called "lock time", or the time between the trigger pull and
the firing pin hitting the primer.

The tester took the gun out for ducks and soon learned that in cold
weather the battery-powered electrical system grew so feeble that it
reminded him of the delay with an old-fashioned flint-and-powder-pan
muzzle-loading shotgun.

As far as I know, electricity failed to replace firing pins in
ordinary firearms. (Battery-fired primers are used by many automatic
military weapons, but they have considerably larger batteries.)

I wonder how well coin-cell shifters would work near the end of a
long, cold mountain stage in the Tour de France. And how happy
ordinary riders would be, stopping to replace batteries to cure slow
shifting.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

In article
.com
,
"
wrote:

On Aug 8, 4:34 pm, Chris Solar wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
Anyone got any suggestions?

In theory you could put your shift levers/buttons anywhere you want on
the bike, or have multiple sets of shifters, since the shifters aren't
tied to mechanical cables. A TT bike, for example, could have shifters
on both the aero bars and the bullhorns. FWIW.

The true advance of cordless electronic shifting will
be to relocate the shifters on a TT bike to their proper
place: the directeur sportif's steering wheel.
Venga, venga!

Sincerely,
J. Bruyneel

Next: electronic braking.

--
Michael Press

On Aug 9, 12:32 am, Michael Press wrote:
In article
.com
,
"





wrote:
On Aug 8, 4:34 pm, Chris Solar wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out what the advantages are to electric shifting.
Anyone got any suggestions?

In theory you could put your shift levers/buttons anywhere you want on
the bike, or have multiple sets of shifters, since the shifters aren't
tied to mechanical cables. A TT bike, for example, could have shifters
on both the aero bars and the bullhorns. FWIW.

The true advance of cordless electronic shifting will
be to relocate the shifters on a TT bike to their proper
place: the directeur sportif's steering wheel.
Venga, venga!

Sincerely,
J. Bruyneel

Next: electronic braking.


And, after that, brain implants......the *real* Mavic Zap!

A Muzi wrote:
jim beam wrote:
sounds like a very interesting system nevertheless. any online
resources for this?

Hey, just remembered I uploaded the manual for someone once:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/mavmek.html

thanks andrew! do you [or anyone] have line drawings of the derailleur
guts? it's still not clear to me from that material how it works.

Though it might become no more than a marketing dud, there are some
sides to the electronic shifting that are waived:

Some theorising

1. Selfadjusting shifting. Yes Tom, current chips are small and cheap
enough to be incorporatedhelp align a chain. It can be foreseen that
this will make finer tolerances possible (overshift to move the chain,
then at the right moment adjusted back). So perhaps we can narrow the
rear end, or squeeze in more gears.
2. Weight. Though the prototypes are clunky, a botton+ wire (or button
+ remote) weigh less than cable+lever and are conceivably enough to
offset battery.
3. Prize. An sti/ergo lever is most likely more expensive than chips
mass produced rolling of the band.

I think 3 can be very important.

And about reliability: Mavic (life) prototypes shouldn't be seen as
par for the course. Water etc hardly should be an issue, considering
its actually pretty simple stuff.

I'm not a believer in a sense that I think current mechanical systems
are obsolete and are in need for replacement, but I can imagine there
are some foreseeable advantages. Prize will be a biggie.

On Aug 9, 12:50 am, Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,
jim beam wrote:



Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,
jim beam wrote:

Tom Kunich wrote:

Someone that believes that an electronic RD can be "self adjusting"
ought to just read the postings and not write them.

eh? maybe you should re-read?

You're not holding your breath waiting for that, are you? By the way,
the original Mavic electronic rear deralleur had problems, but it wasn't the
mechanism. The troubles were mostly centered around the electronics and the
wiring in particular. They frequently stopped working due to miniscule amounts
of moisture. They did stay in the gear they were in when it quit or you could
stop and manually move it over to an appropriate gear. There are no 'clutches"
in 'em, contrary to what TK stated.

sounds like a very interesting system nevertheless. any online
resources for this?

I don't know of any, sorry.

--

I have two complete Mektronic sets gathering dust in my garage. I got
one set when I bought a Cannondale R4000 that came with them
standard. I bought the second set from Cycles d’Oro when I wanted
them on another bike.

I used them because I don’t have any fingers on my right hand; just
part of a thumb and a part of one other finger (don’t know which
one :-) )

The Mektronic system offered an extra shifter that I placed on the
left bar right below the brake lever, it had an up button and a down
button, and I could shift just by clicking them. I was also able to
twiddle the button they had on the top of the right brake lever with
my ‘thumb’.

They worked well enough, but two things made me pull them off for dura-
ace.

On a trip to Italy, I could not get my bike to shift properly after
taking it out of the case and putting the bar, seats, etc back on. It
turned out the fluorescent lamps in the room I was working in was
interfering with the system. I discovered this when I said, *$# it,
I’m in Italy, I’m gonna ride even if I only have a couple of gears.
It magically started working outside.

When I started riding more in fast groups, the occasional delay was
causing problems when there was an attack or we hit a big climb. I
was afraid I was going to start a crash when someone got their wheel
into me.

It is still popular with some triathletes and time trial people, as
you can shift in the areobars and also in the cow horns. Still the
only available system that permits this.

The now long gone French team, “Big Mat� actually used Mektronic in
the TdF on their red Time bicycles. They may have actually just about
everything Mavic made on them, except the wheels! SSC brakes, front
der (mechanical). What wheels did they use? Spinergy REV-X’s


Anyone want mine �

wrote:


I have two complete Mektronic sets gathering dust in my garage. I got
one set when I bought a Cannondale R4000 that came with them
standard. I bought the second set from Cycles d’Oro when I wanted
them on another bike.

I used them because I don’t have any fingers on my right hand; just
part of a thumb and a part of one other finger (don’t know which
one :-) )

The Mektronic system offered an extra shifter that I placed on the
left bar right below the brake lever, it had an up button and a down
button, and I could shift just by clicking them. I was also able to
twiddle the button they had on the top of the right brake lever with
my ‘thumb’.

They worked well enough, but two things made me pull them off for dura-
ace.

On a trip to Italy, I could not get my bike to shift properly after
taking it out of the case and putting the bar, seats, etc back on. It
turned out the fluorescent lamps in the room I was working in was
interfering with the system. I discovered this when I said, *$# it,
I’m in Italy, I’m gonna ride even if I only have a couple of gears.
It magically started working outside.

When I started riding more in fast groups, the occasional delay was
causing problems when there was an attack or we hit a big climb. I
was afraid I was going to start a crash when someone got their wheel
into me.

It is still popular with some triathletes and time trial people, as
you can shift in the areobars and also in the cow horns. Still the
only available system that permits this.

The now long gone French team, “Big Mat� actually used Mektronic in
the TdF on their red Time bicycles. They may have actually just about
everything Mavic made on them, except the wheels! SSC brakes, front
der (mechanical). What wheels did they use? Spinergy REV-X’s


Anyone want mine �


I'd be interested - contact me off list.


Bill

wrote:
On Aug 9, 12:50 am, Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,
jim beam wrote:



Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,
jim beam wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
Someone that believes that an electronic RD can be "self adjusting"
ought to just read the postings and not write them.
eh? maybe you should re-read?
You're not holding your breath waiting for that, are you? By the way,
the original Mavic electronic rear deralleur had problems, but it wasn't the
mechanism. The troubles were mostly centered around the electronics and the
wiring in particular. They frequently stopped working due to miniscule amounts
of moisture. They did stay in the gear they were in when it quit or you could
stop and manually move it over to an appropriate gear. There are no 'clutches"
in 'em, contrary to what TK stated.
sounds like a very interesting system nevertheless. any online
resources for this?
I don't know of any, sorry.

--

I have two complete Mektronic sets gathering dust in my garage. I got
one set when I bought a Cannondale R4000 that came with them
standard. I bought the second set from Cycles d’Oro when I wanted
them on another bike.

I used them because I don’t have any fingers on my right hand; just
part of a thumb and a part of one other finger (don’t know which
one :-) )

The Mektronic system offered an extra shifter that I placed on the
left bar right below the brake lever, it had an up button and a down
button, and I could shift just by clicking them. I was also able to
twiddle the button they had on the top of the right brake lever with
my ‘thumb’.

They worked well enough, but two things made me pull them off for dura-
ace.

On a trip to Italy, I could not get my bike to shift properly after
taking it out of the case and putting the bar, seats, etc back on. It
turned out the fluorescent lamps in the room I was working in was
interfering with the system. I discovered this when I said, *$# it,
I’m in Italy, I’m gonna ride even if I only have a couple of gears.
It magically started working outside.

When I started riding more in fast groups, the occasional delay was
causing problems when there was an attack or we hit a big climb. I
was afraid I was going to start a crash when someone got their wheel
into me.

It is still popular with some triathletes and time trial people, as
you can shift in the areobars and also in the cow horns. Still the
only available system that permits this.

The now long gone French team, “Big Mat� actually used Mektronic in
the TdF on their red Time bicycles. They may have actually just about
everything Mavic made on them, except the wheels! SSC brakes, front
der (mechanical). What wheels did they use? Spinergy REV-X’s

informative post!




Anyone want mine �

Tuschinski wrote:
Though it might become no more than a marketing dud, there are some
sides to the electronic shifting that are waived:

Some theorising

1. Selfadjusting shifting. Yes Tom, current chips are small and cheap
enough to be incorporatedhelp align a chain. It can be foreseen that
this will make finer tolerances possible (overshift to move the chain,
then at the right moment adjusted back). So perhaps we can narrow the
rear end, or squeeze in more gears.
2. Weight. Though the prototypes are clunky, a botton+ wire (or button
+ remote) weigh less than cable+lever and are conceivably enough to
offset battery.
3. Prize. An sti/ergo lever is most likely more expensive than chips
mass produced rolling of the band.

I think 3 can be very important.

And about reliability: Mavic (life) prototypes shouldn't be seen as
par for the course. Water etc hardly should be an issue, considering
its actually pretty simple stuff.

I'm not a believer in a sense that I think current mechanical systems
are obsolete and are in need for replacement, but I can imagine there
are some foreseeable advantages. Prize will be a biggie.


indeed.