Chain Cleaning

Following my cheap way to buy degreaser thread, does anyone have any
thoughts on using paraffin to clean chain.[1]
Does the chain need cleaned anyway? I will be lubing with a Teflon lube.
I do not want to spend £15 cleaning a £10 chain.


[1] Using a chain cleaning bath as I do not have a power link on the
chain and don't fancy breaking the chain everytime I want to clean it,
I suppose I could go the toothbrush/nailbrush route.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 05:29:00 +0000
soup wrote:

Following my cheap way to buy degreaser thread, does anyone have any
thoughts on using paraffin to clean chain.[1]
Does the chain need cleaned anyway? I will be lubing with a Teflon
lube. I do not want to spend £15 cleaning a £10 chain.


[1] Using a chain cleaning bath as I do not have a power link on the
chain and don't fancy breaking the chain everytime I want to clean it,
I suppose I could go the toothbrush/nailbrush route.

You can't easily clean a chain thoroughly on the bike - get a magic
link. Then you stick the chain in a coffee jar half full of paraffin
and give it a good shake, repeat with hot water + detergent, rinse and
dry (radiator/oven). You can reuse the paraffin (muck settles out,
decant it into another jar).

On 29/12/2012 12:29, Rob Morley wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 05:29:00 +0000
soup wrote:

Following my cheap way to buy degreaser thread, does anyone have any
thoughts on using paraffin to clean chain.[1]
Does the chain need cleaned anyway? I will be lubing with a Teflon
lube. I do not want to spend £15 cleaning a £10 chain.


[1] Using a chain cleaning bath as I do not have a power link on the
chain and don't fancy breaking the chain everytime I want to clean it,
I suppose I could go the toothbrush/nailbrush route.

You can't easily clean a chain thoroughly on the bike - get a magic
link. Then you stick the chain in a coffee jar half full of paraffin
and give it a good shake, repeat with hot water + detergent, rinse and
dry (radiator/oven). You can reuse the paraffin (muck settles out,
decant it into another jar).


I'm not convinced it is really necessary to clean a chain that well,
unless you expect it to last. If the chain is cheap, clean occasionally
on the bike with a rag and paraffin/white spirit and re-oil. Replace
with a new chain every 2000km or less.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 13:36:36 +0000
Nick wrote:

On 29/12/2012 12:29, Rob Morley wrote:

You can't easily clean a chain thoroughly on the bike - get a magic
link. Then you stick the chain in a coffee jar half full of
paraffin and give it a good shake, repeat with hot water +
detergent, rinse and dry (radiator/oven). You can reuse the
paraffin (muck settles out, decant it into another jar).


I'm not convinced it is really necessary to clean a chain that well,
unless you expect it to last. If the chain is cheap, clean
occasionally on the bike with a rag and paraffin/white spirit and
re-oil. Replace with a new chain every 2000km or less.

On the bike I just oil and wipe - if you're not going to do a thorough
job there's no point using a solvent. The approach I outlined above
(which probably takes all of ten minutes) is used to remove grit from
the bearings - a half hearted approach is just as likely to wash
muck /into/ the bearings. If you're commuting in wet weather a chain
won't last long at all without proper maintenance, and of course a
knackered chain will knacker the cassette sprockets too.

On 29/12/2012 15:48, Rob Morley wrote:

On the bike I just oil and wipe - if you're not going to do a thorough
job there's no point using a solvent. The approach I outlined above
(which probably takes all of ten minutes) is used to remove grit from
the bearings - a half hearted approach is just as likely to wash
muck /into/ the bearings. If you're commuting in wet weather a chain
won't last long at all without proper maintenance, and of course a
knackered chain will knacker the cassette sprockets too.


I don't really know maybe I over estimated the 2000km chain lifetime. I
used to do the Sheldon shake and keep the same chain for quite a while
but for the past 5 or 6 years I have just replaced chains every few
months, oiling only very infrequently if at all. When I did the Sheldon
Shake I had to replace the cassette every time I changed a chain now I
get 10,000-15,000 km out of a cassette. I do try to avoid riding in the wet.

You can't easily clean a chain thoroughly on the bike - get a magic
link. *Then you stick the chain in a coffee jar half full of
paraffin and give it a good shake, repeat with hot water +
detergent, rinse and dry (radiator/oven). *You can reuse the
paraffin (muck settles out, decant it into another jar).

I'm not convinced it is really necessary to clean a chain that well,
unless you expect it to last. If the chain is cheap, clean
occasionally on the bike with a rag and paraffin/white spirit and
re-oil. Replace with a new chain every 2000km or less.

On the bike I just oil and wipe - if you're not going to do a thorough
job there's no point using a solvent. *The approach I outlined above
(which probably takes all of ten minutes) is used to remove grit from
the bearings - a half hearted approach is just as likely to wash
muck /into/ the bearings. *If you're commuting in wet weather a chain
won't last long at all without proper maintenance, and of course a
knackered chain will knacker the cassette sprockets too.

Assuming dust even gets in there in the first place, it realistic to
believe it is possible to get dust out from between all the pins and
bushings without taking every link apart? That's where wear or
"stretch" becomes an issue.

Dust on the outside of the chain will certainly wear small 13, 14 & 15
T sprockets, but other than that, it seems like the easy to clean dust
is irrelevant. You are just cleaning dirt that doesn't matter except
for looks.

On a related issue maybe use a heavier lubricant to repel water in
rainy places and something less goopy that will attract less dust in
the desert.

I use a penetrating oil every month or so partly because it's a fast
easy cleaner but mostly because I'm hoping it will attract less large
particulate. My chain will occasionally squeak but at least it
doesn't sling globs of black asphalt-gravel composition on my pants
leg.

But this is all speculation. Reality may be different. We really
need some real testing by a real lab. We need some numbers, charts &
graphs. All things considered it may be more cost effective to just
use heavy grease once in the beginning and not clean the chain at
all. Just change the chain and cluster every year or so.

For almost a century auto manufacturers recommended changing motor oil
every 3,000 miles. They recently abandoned that superstition
altogether, maybe forced by the Car Talk engineer who decided to stop
changing his oil. Apparently it made no difference.


Bret Cahill

Bret Cahill wrote:
You can't easily clean a chain thoroughly on the bike - get a magic
link. Then you stick the chain in a coffee jar half full of
paraffin and give it a good shake, repeat with hot water +
detergent, rinse and dry (radiator/oven). You can reuse the
paraffin (muck settles out, decant it into another jar).

I'm not convinced it is really necessary to clean a chain that well,
unless you expect it to last. If the chain is cheap, clean
occasionally on the bike with a rag and paraffin/white spirit and
re-oil. Replace with a new chain every 2000km or less.

On the bike I just oil and wipe - if you're not going to do a
thorough job there's no point using a solvent. The approach I
outlined above (which probably takes all of ten minutes) is used to
remove grit from the bearings - a half hearted approach is just as
likely to wash
muck /into/ the bearings. If you're commuting in wet weather a chain
won't last long at all without proper maintenance, and of course a
knackered chain will knacker the cassette sprockets too.

Assuming dust even gets in there in the first place, it realistic to
believe it is possible to get dust out from between all the pins and
bushings without taking every link apart? That's where wear or
"stretch" becomes an issue.

Dust on the outside of the chain will certainly wear small 13, 14 & 15
T sprockets, but other than that, it seems like the easy to clean dust
is irrelevant. You are just cleaning dirt that doesn't matter except
for looks.

On a related issue maybe use a heavier lubricant to repel water in
rainy places and something less goopy that will attract less dust in
the desert.

I use a penetrating oil every month or so partly because it's a fast
easy cleaner but mostly because I'm hoping it will attract less large
particulate. My chain will occasionally squeak but at least it
doesn't sling globs of black asphalt-gravel composition on my pants
leg.

But this is all speculation. Reality may be different. We really
need some real testing by a real lab. We need some numbers, charts &
graphs. All things considered it may be more cost effective to just
use heavy grease once in the beginning and not clean the chain at
all. Just change the chain and cluster every year or so.

For almost a century auto manufacturers recommended changing motor oil
every 3,000 miles. They recently abandoned that superstition
altogether, maybe forced by the Car Talk engineer who decided to stop
changing his oil. Apparently it made no difference.


Bret Cahill

Engine design improved, fuel improved, oil improved, filters improved, all
of which together meant oil change intervals increased dramatically, it was
only in the USA that 3000 intervals were common, UK was 6000.

motorcycle chains moved to sealed link design using o rings over thirty
years ago, it is surprising that bicycles haven't.

What happened to chain cases on bicycles? nowadays it would be relatively
easy to make a lightweight plastic casing to enclose the whole lot, multi
sprocket arrangements included.

On Tue, 01 Jan 2013 22:10:47 -0800, Bret Cahill wrote:

Assuming dust even gets in there in the first place, it realistic to
believe it is possible to get dust out from between all the pins and
bushings without taking every link apart? That's where wear or
"stretch" becomes an issue.

No! You absolutely have to take it apart for a proper clean.

http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html

It says so on the internetz it must be true.

--
davethedave

On Jan 2, 5:52*pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
Bret Cahill wrote:
You can't easily clean a chain thoroughly on the bike - get a magic
link. Then you stick the chain in a coffee jar half full of
paraffin and give it a good shake, repeat with hot water +
detergent, rinse and dry (radiator/oven). You can reuse the
paraffin (muck settles out, decant it into another jar).

I'm not convinced it is really necessary to clean a chain that well,
unless you expect it to last. If the chain is cheap, clean
occasionally on the bike with a rag and paraffin/white spirit and
re-oil. Replace with a new chain every 2000km or less.

On the bike I just oil and wipe - if you're not going to do a
thorough job there's no point using a solvent. The approach I
outlined above (which probably takes all of ten minutes) is used to
remove grit from the bearings - a half hearted approach is just as
likely to wash
muck /into/ the bearings. If you're commuting in wet weather a chain
won't last long at all without proper maintenance, and of course a
knackered chain will knacker the cassette sprockets too.

Assuming dust even gets in there in the first place, it realistic to
believe it is possible to get dust out from between all the pins and
bushings without taking every link apart? *That's where wear or
"stretch" becomes an issue.

Dust on the outside of the chain will certainly wear small 13, 14 & 15
T sprockets, but other than that, it seems like the easy to clean dust
is irrelevant. *You are just cleaning dirt that doesn't matter except
for looks.

On a related issue maybe use a heavier lubricant to repel water in
rainy places and something less goopy that will attract less dust in
the desert.

I use a penetrating oil every month or so partly because it's a fast
easy cleaner but mostly because I'm hoping it will attract less large
particulate. *My chain will occasionally squeak but at least it
doesn't sling globs of black asphalt-gravel composition on my pants
leg.

But this is all speculation. *Reality may be different. *We really
need some real testing by a real lab. *We need some numbers, charts &
graphs. *All things considered it may be more cost effective to just
use heavy grease once in the beginning and not clean the chain at
all. *Just change the chain and cluster every year or so.

For almost a century auto manufacturers recommended changing motor oil
every 3,000 miles. *They recently abandoned that superstition
altogether, maybe forced by the Car Talk engineer who decided to stop
changing his oil. *Apparently it made no difference.

Bret Cahill

Engine design improved, fuel improved, oil improved, filters improved, all
of which together meant oil change intervals increased dramatically, it was
only in the USA that 3000 intervals were common, UK was 6000.

I have found that 3000 miles s the correct time to repoint the plugs.
Proper synthetic oils do not require replacing, the oil must be kept
clean by ensuring the engine breathes only on clean air and the oil
filter is cleaned or changed periodically.


motorcycle chains moved to sealed link design using o rings over thirty
years ago, it is surprising that bicycles haven't.

Not really, the system may only be used for straight chain lines and
such bikes do not have wear issues with standard chains.


What happened to chain cases on bicycles? *nowadays it would be relatively
easy to make a lightweight plastic casing to enclose the whole lot, multi
sprocket arrangements included.

Let us know when your first 10,000 is ready to hit the market.
You'll have to get it to a bike-manufacturer for £2 and sell it for
possibly £15 or so retail. Good luck.

thirty-six wrote:
On Jan 2, 5:52 pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
Bret Cahill wrote:
You can't easily clean a chain thoroughly on the bike - get a
magic link. Then you stick the chain in a coffee jar half full of
paraffin and give it a good shake, repeat with hot water +
detergent, rinse and dry (radiator/oven). You can reuse the
paraffin (muck settles out, decant it into another jar).

I'm not convinced it is really necessary to clean a chain that
well, unless you expect it to last. If the chain is cheap, clean
occasionally on the bike with a rag and paraffin/white spirit and
re-oil. Replace with a new chain every 2000km or less.

On the bike I just oil and wipe - if you're not going to do a
thorough job there's no point using a solvent. The approach I
outlined above (which probably takes all of ten minutes) is used to
remove grit from the bearings - a half hearted approach is just as
likely to wash
muck /into/ the bearings. If you're commuting in wet weather a
chain won't last long at all without proper maintenance, and of
course a knackered chain will knacker the cassette sprockets too.

Assuming dust even gets in there in the first place, it realistic to
believe it is possible to get dust out from between all the pins and
bushings without taking every link apart? That's where wear or
"stretch" becomes an issue.

Dust on the outside of the chain will certainly wear small 13, 14 &
15 T sprockets, but other than that, it seems like the easy to
clean dust is irrelevant. You are just cleaning dirt that doesn't
matter except for looks.

On a related issue maybe use a heavier lubricant to repel water in
rainy places and something less goopy that will attract less dust in
the desert.

I use a penetrating oil every month or so partly because it's a fast
easy cleaner but mostly because I'm hoping it will attract less
large particulate. My chain will occasionally squeak but at least it
doesn't sling globs of black asphalt-gravel composition on my pants
leg.

But this is all speculation. Reality may be different. We really
need some real testing by a real lab. We need some numbers, charts &
graphs. All things considered it may be more cost effective to just
use heavy grease once in the beginning and not clean the chain at
all. Just change the chain and cluster every year or so.

For almost a century auto manufacturers recommended changing motor
oil every 3,000 miles. They recently abandoned that superstition
altogether, maybe forced by the Car Talk engineer who decided to
stop changing his oil. Apparently it made no difference.

Bret Cahill

Engine design improved, fuel improved, oil improved, filters
improved, all of which together meant oil change intervals increased
dramatically, it was only in the USA that 3000 intervals were
common, UK was 6000.

I have found that 3000 miles s the correct time to repoint the plugs.
Proper synthetic oils do not require replacing, the oil must be kept
clean by ensuring the engine breathes only on clean air and the oil
filter is cleaned or changed periodically.


motorcycle chains moved to sealed link design using o rings over
thirty years ago, it is surprising that bicycles haven't.

Not really, the system may only be used for straight chain lines and
such bikes do not have wear issues with standard chains.


What happened to chain cases on bicycles? nowadays it would be
relatively easy to make a lightweight plastic casing to enclose the
whole lot, multi sprocket arrangements included.

Let us know when your first 10,000 is ready to hit the market.
You'll have to get it to a bike-manufacturer for £2 and sell it for
possibly £15 or so retail. Good luck.

good to see you are rooted in the past, maybe that is why bicycles are still
so primitive. decent quality plugs only need to be replaced every 60,000 or
even 100,000 miles in some cases.