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#41
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Cleaning of chain and all components
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 17:43:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:54:57 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:06:15 -0400, Duane wrote: On 18/07/2019 2:25 p.m., AK wrote: On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-5, Bertrand wrote: I spent about 3.5 hrs. cleaning my chain and everything it comes in contact with. What a tedious job. Used the following: 1. Engine cleaner 2. Paint thinner 3. Used toothbrush 4. Occasional foul language I mentioned it to my friendly bike repair guy and he said many do not realize the damage a dirty chain does to the bearings etc. It shortens their life. I think it helped as I think I can go around 3 mph faster. Any other maintenance tips? I wipe down the chain and derailleur pulleys after each ride, just back-pedaling the chain through a rag. Only takes a few seconds, and keeps crud from building up. Thanks for all the ideas. I forgot to mention that I USED to use oil and Amzoil Synthetic Grease on my chain. Andy Grease? That is what Shimano puts on the chain before they sell to you :-) -- cheers, John B. And which I remove before using the chain as that sticky substance REALLY holds the fine grit. It does make a fantastic grinding compound though. Cheers Although the indomitable Sheldon states, or more factually John "Chain Male" Allen states on Sheldon's site that: New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain... This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact... Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this! The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube. -- cheers, John B. |
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#42
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Cleaning of chain and all components
On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 9:43:01 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 17:43:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:54:57 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:06:15 -0400, Duane wrote: On 18/07/2019 2:25 p.m., AK wrote: On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-5, Bertrand wrote: I spent about 3.5 hrs. cleaning my chain and everything it comes in contact with. What a tedious job. Used the following: 1. Engine cleaner 2. Paint thinner 3. Used toothbrush 4. Occasional foul language I mentioned it to my friendly bike repair guy and he said many do not realize the damage a dirty chain does to the bearings etc. It shortens their life. I think it helped as I think I can go around 3 mph faster. Any other maintenance tips? I wipe down the chain and derailleur pulleys after each ride, just back-pedaling the chain through a rag. Only takes a few seconds, and keeps crud from building up. Thanks for all the ideas. I forgot to mention that I USED to use oil and Amzoil Synthetic Grease on my chain. Andy Grease? That is what Shimano puts on the chain before they sell to you :-) -- cheers, John B. And which I remove before using the chain as that sticky substance REALLY holds the fine grit. It does make a fantastic grinding compound though. Cheers Although the indomitable Sheldon states, or more factually John "Chain Male" Allen states on Sheldon's site that: New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain... This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact... Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this! The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube. -- cheers, John B. I use a degreaser or mineral spirits on a rag to remove the factory stickum from the OUTSIDE of the chain only. I guess I forgot to mention I only remove the factory stickum from the outside of the chain. Around here there is often n ultra-fine black dust that permeates everything. Recently I opened up a small fleece packet that I had in my seat bag and discovered the contents of that inner bag to be covered in that ultra-fine black dust. I also ride where there is a lot of sand/grit washed onto the roads. That stuff all sticks most wonderfully to the stickum that Shimano puts onto new chains thereby turning the stickum into a superb grinding compound Cheers |
#43
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Cleaning of chain and all components
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 22:20:59 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 9:43:01 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 17:43:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:54:57 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:06:15 -0400, Duane wrote: On 18/07/2019 2:25 p.m., AK wrote: On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-5, Bertrand wrote: I spent about 3.5 hrs. cleaning my chain and everything it comes in contact with. What a tedious job. Used the following: 1. Engine cleaner 2. Paint thinner 3. Used toothbrush 4. Occasional foul language I mentioned it to my friendly bike repair guy and he said many do not realize the damage a dirty chain does to the bearings etc. It shortens their life. I think it helped as I think I can go around 3 mph faster. Any other maintenance tips? I wipe down the chain and derailleur pulleys after each ride, just back-pedaling the chain through a rag. Only takes a few seconds, and keeps crud from building up. Thanks for all the ideas. I forgot to mention that I USED to use oil and Amzoil Synthetic Grease on my chain. Andy Grease? That is what Shimano puts on the chain before they sell to you :-) -- cheers, John B. And which I remove before using the chain as that sticky substance REALLY holds the fine grit. It does make a fantastic grinding compound though. Cheers Although the indomitable Sheldon states, or more factually John "Chain Male" Allen states on Sheldon's site that: New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain... This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact... Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this! The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube. -- cheers, John B. I use a degreaser or mineral spirits on a rag to remove the factory stickum from the OUTSIDE of the chain only. I guess I forgot to mention I only remove the factory stickum from the outside of the chain. Actually I used to use something very like what Shimano apparently uses, which I am certain has anti-corrosive properties. In fact I suspect that may be the real reason that they use it. A number of companies make what they usually refer to as anti corrosion lubricant, or some similar name, which is essentially a grease dissolved in a very volatile solvent as a carrier. You spray on this very liquid mixture that seeps into cracks almost like water and then the carrier solvent evaporates leaving the grease. And as a lubricant it worked like a champ... but it is sticky grease and it attracts practically every speck of dirt in the surrounding territories. I'd set off on a 3, 4 hour ride with a clean chain and by the time I got back the chain needed cleaning again. So I switched to my wax mixture and have never looked back. Around here there is often n ultra-fine black dust that permeates everything. Recently I opened up a small fleece packet that I had in my seat bag and discovered the contents of that inner bag to be covered in that ultra-fine black dust. I also ride where there is a lot of sand/grit washed onto the roads. That stuff all sticks most wonderfully to the stickum that Shimano puts onto new chains thereby turning the stickum into a superb grinding compound Cheers -- cheers, John B. |
#44
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Cleaning of chain and all components
John B. writes:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:04:36 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 9:09:12 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: I do something similar. When I initially decided to go with the wax lube I went to a "candle store" where they sell mainly candles for church or temple affairs but also sell wax and candle wicks and so on for those that want to do it themselves. Anyway, they had both paraffin and bee's wax so I bought the paraffin and a little bee's wax (it is bloody expensive ) thinking that the bee's wax would make the paraffin a bit more flexible, it didn't, or I didn't use enough, so I added some light viscosity synthetic grease and that has worked real well. I don't start out on a ride if it is raining but I've been caught a number of times in some pretty good showers and as far as I can see it has never washed the wax airway and I've never seen a spot of rust on the chain.... but to be honest I never saw any rust when I was using spray lube on the chain either :-) +1 except my bees' wax is still unused. I bought it on a whim and haven't used it for anything. Bees' wax melts at a considerably higher temperature than paraffin wax, not an advantage for chain wax (or kink). It also burns cleaner and smells nicer when burning, not an advantage either. It's better for waxing thread than paraffin, which is why I have some. According to the Wikki paraffin wax melts at 115 - 154 Degrees (F) while bee's wax melts at 145 - 147 degrees (F) :-) If you're buying by the carload I don't doubt you can get paraffin wax in a wide range of melting points. The primary users of canning paraffin expect it to melt easily in a double boiler. I suggest that the waxing of thread using bees wax is "normal" simply because it has been used for hundreds of years while paraffin wax was "discovered" less than 200 years ago. I might add that I have used paraffin wax to wax thread when sewing sails and it worked perfectly well although it does seem to make the thread stiffer but still very usable although my feeling is that bee's wax is perhaps the better solution. Although, of course the reason to wax thread is because it acts as a lubricant to allow sewing heavier cloth easier. Sort of like linseed oil spoke prep, wax on thread may initially lubricate but eventually it helps to stick everything together, making stitches and knots more secure, and seams a bit closer to water tight. It also makes the thread stiffer and easier to work with. Paraffin wax does not seem to me to have the stickiness of bees wax. |
#45
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Cleaning of chain and all components
On Saturday, July 20, 2019 at 2:43:01 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 17:43:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:54:57 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 08:06:15 -0400, Duane wrote: On 18/07/2019 2:25 p.m., AK wrote: On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-5, Bertrand wrote: I spent about 3.5 hrs. cleaning my chain and everything it comes in contact with. What a tedious job. Used the following: 1. Engine cleaner 2. Paint thinner 3. Used toothbrush 4. Occasional foul language I mentioned it to my friendly bike repair guy and he said many do not realize the damage a dirty chain does to the bearings etc. It shortens their life. I think it helped as I think I can go around 3 mph faster. Any other maintenance tips? I wipe down the chain and derailleur pulleys after each ride, just back-pedaling the chain through a rag. Only takes a few seconds, and keeps crud from building up. Thanks for all the ideas. I forgot to mention that I USED to use oil and Amzoil Synthetic Grease on my chain. Andy Grease? That is what Shimano puts on the chain before they sell to you :-) -- cheers, John B. And which I remove before using the chain as that sticky substance REALLY holds the fine grit. It does make a fantastic grinding compound though. Cheers Although the indomitable Sheldon states, or more factually John "Chain Male" Allen states on Sheldon's site that: New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain... This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact... Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this! The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube. -- cheers, John B. Sheldon himself said that he expected factory lube to last about 700 miles. Chains on my bikes run for their entire life on the factory lube, no extra oil, grease or wax added, no other service performed, no cleaning, no nothing. I get three times to 4.5 times the chain mileage I managed when I fussed with with wax, oil, cleaning equipment, etc. I think cleaning your chain is a retrograde step, a throwback to when cycling was the transport and pastime off the poor, and an expression of the wretched cultural cringe that middle class cyclists have brought forward from those days, best summed up in the roadie attitude that a real cyclist suffers for his dedication to bicycles. I particularly like the KMC factory grease, which thins out over time and with wear to a thickish oil-like substance that looks very much like Phil's green jelly (super stuff!) that I pack into the Rohloff's external clickbox when once a year I change its oil. Andre Jute The hedonist's cutting edge, no muss, no fuss. One day all cyclists will ride as I do. |
#46
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Cleaning of chain and all components
On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 9:03:47 AM UTC+1, Tom Evans wrote:
On 18/07/2019 22:32, Andre Jute wrote: 3. Ride the bike. Do nothing else. Do no service whatsoever. I do pretty much the same, on an 8 speed dérailleur. Never oil, replace regularly. I use a cheap chain and buy 10 or so at a time when they are cheap, currently I have KMC Z8s. I never got elongation checking to work, by the time the chain looked elongated the cassette was skipping with a new chain. So I replace the chain somewhere between 1000km-1500km, which seems to preserve the cassette. A couple of points. It doesn't work well if you have regular rain. It also doesn't work well with dérailleurs 8 speed, they need to be oiled for clean shifting. I use hub gearboxes and the chain is fully and very effectively enclosed in a Chainglider; if you're interested, see http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6813.0 where I explain how I upped my mileage per chain to roughly 0.5% elongation, at which point I fit a new chain, from about a 1000m to near enough 3000m (4506km is the target, from the original experiment described at the link above). Andre Jute Focus group |
#47
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Cleaning of chain and all components
On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 9:03:47 AM UTC+1, Tom Evans wrote:
On 18/07/2019 22:32, Andre Jute wrote: 3. Ride the bike. Do nothing else. Do no service whatsoever. I do pretty much the same, on an 8 speed dérailleur. Never oil, replace regularly. I use a cheap chain and buy 10 or so at a time when they are cheap, currently I have KMC Z8s. I never got elongation checking to work, In the first article in the thread I've already referenced http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6813.0 there's a photograph showing why the standard chain wear gauge doesn't work, and how to make a reasonable estimate for the partial wear if you throw your chains out "early" to preserve gear-wheals. Nothing further in this post from me, but I leave the rest of the exchange for content. Andre Jute Running chains to the limit isn't an economy, it just kills more expensive components by the time the chain looked elongated the cassette was skipping with a new chain. So I replace the chain somewhere between 1000km-1500km, which seems to preserve the cassette. A couple of points. It doesn't work well if you have regular rain. It also doesn't work well with dérailleurs 8 speed, they need to be oiled for clean shifting. |
#48
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Cleaning of chain and all components
On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 15:04:24 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: John B. writes: On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:04:36 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 9:09:12 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: I do something similar. When I initially decided to go with the wax lube I went to a "candle store" where they sell mainly candles for church or temple affairs but also sell wax and candle wicks and so on for those that want to do it themselves. Anyway, they had both paraffin and bee's wax so I bought the paraffin and a little bee's wax (it is bloody expensive ) thinking that the bee's wax would make the paraffin a bit more flexible, it didn't, or I didn't use enough, so I added some light viscosity synthetic grease and that has worked real well. I don't start out on a ride if it is raining but I've been caught a number of times in some pretty good showers and as far as I can see it has never washed the wax airway and I've never seen a spot of rust on the chain.... but to be honest I never saw any rust when I was using spray lube on the chain either :-) +1 except my bees' wax is still unused. I bought it on a whim and haven't used it for anything. Bees' wax melts at a considerably higher temperature than paraffin wax, not an advantage for chain wax (or kink). It also burns cleaner and smells nicer when burning, not an advantage either. It's better for waxing thread than paraffin, which is why I have some. According to the Wikki paraffin wax melts at 115 - 154 Degrees (F) while bee's wax melts at 145 - 147 degrees (F) :-) If you're buying by the carload I don't doubt you can get paraffin wax in a wide range of melting points. The primary users of canning paraffin expect it to melt easily in a double boiler. But 115 - 145 degrees (F) is well within the range of a double boiler At least I am assured by the Internet that using a double boiler one can achieve temperatures in the 226 degree (F) range. I suggest that the waxing of thread using bees wax is "normal" simply because it has been used for hundreds of years while paraffin wax was "discovered" less than 200 years ago. I might add that I have used paraffin wax to wax thread when sewing sails and it worked perfectly well although it does seem to make the thread stiffer but still very usable although my feeling is that bee's wax is perhaps the better solution. Although, of course the reason to wax thread is because it acts as a lubricant to allow sewing heavier cloth easier. Sort of like linseed oil spoke prep, wax on thread may initially lubricate but eventually it helps to stick everything together, making stitches and knots more secure, and seams a bit closer to water tight. It also makes the thread stiffer and easier to work with. Paraffin wax does not seem to me to have the stickiness of bees wax. I can't comment as the only had sewing I've done was on sails - roping and such - and I seriously doubt that the wax used had any long lasting stickiness after being exposed to wind and water for even a week and certainly not after a month. And even commercial sail making shops don't use waxed thread for machine sewing. -- cheers, John B. |
#49
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Cleaning of chain and all components
On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 11:17:25 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 19/07/2019 1:42 p.m., Andre Jute wrote: On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 11:08:53 AM UTC+1, Duane wrote: AK wrote: On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:11:35 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 5:39:48 AM UTC+2, AK wrote: I spent about 3.5 hrs. cleaning my chain and everything it comes in contact with. What a tedious job. Used the following: 1. Engine cleaner 2. Paint thinner 3. Used toothbrush 4. Occasional foul language I mentioned it to my friendly bike repair guy and he said many do not realize the damage a dirty chain does to the bearings etc. It shortens their life. I think it helped as I think I can go around 3 mph faster. Any other maintenance tips? Thanks, Andy It always too soon to quit. If you ride a 15 dollar chain and a 30 dolar cassette and you are not a bike nerd like some of us don't do that again. Wipe your chain as clean as possible with a rag before lubing. Lube regularly with whatever oily stuff and ride the **** out of your chain until some gears starts to skip. Then replace the chain and cassette. If you ride a 45 dollar chain and a 200 dollar cassette pay attention to some of the advice you get. Lou, my 2 cents. If you aren't a "bike nerd" take the bike to the shop and let somebody else do it :-) -- cheers, John B. Yeah right. Pay him $25/hr X 3.5. Andy I use a Park chain cleaner tool. Clip on, fill with degreaser, run 30-40 crank strokes, change degreaser and repeat. Take a brush and clean the cassette and cage with degreaser. Takes 10-15 minutes. Maybe 20 with a beer in one hand. When dry lube the chain, run through the gears and wipe off the chain. The trick is to oil the chain sparingly between cleaning, wiping it before to remove grit and after to remove excess oil. Takes another 5 minutes and makes the cleaning a lot easier. Most people use too much oil and it attracts grit. I never tried wax but the people here recommending it sound like they know what they’re talking about. -- duane You could just buy wax in a bottle, Duane, instead of messing around with a cooker. I used Finish Line white wax, from a bottle, for a year or two, and it works. Another poster mentioned that he still has half a bottle of Finish Line white wax left, and so do it; it's economical stuff. Don't park your bike on your wife's carpets while you're using it though: it drops little gray balls of mixed wax and gunge wherever you ride or wheel the bike. Andre Jute Clean hands I have a friend that uses the finish line white wax. Seems to work for her. I've been using the finish line dry lube for ages and haven't seen a reason to change. Maybe if I did the mileage that James does or rode in the conditions that Jay does I'd have to reconsider. You mean riding in gorgeous sunshine? Listening to the Mid-Westerners complain about the heat, I feel guilty. Nice spin through the countryside today with a ferry ride. https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/...65a1037e_o.jpg Probably 80F. I got to the ferry, and it was pulling out. The operator saw me and stopped, backed up, dropped the gate and let me on. It was great. There were a couple other racer-dudes on the ferry with really nice equipment, except for one of them had an MP3 player and was blaring Grateful Dead. I let them get down the road a ways. Why must people blare music? Anyway, I decided to give the Trek a nice cleaning on the washstand. My favorite modern invention are Costco exam gloves so I can use my finger as a goop lathe on the pulley wheels and chainrings. I use the Park brush and scraper on the cassettes and a stiff bristle parts brush on the chain with Simple Green and hose spray. I flush it with WD40 and rag dry before adding lubricant which is pedestrian TriFlo because I have a bunch of it. I got my washstand on supersale at Western. https://static.westernbikeworks.com/...0/ffspr2-1.jpg You can spin the bike around which is convenient. Speaking of, maintenance of non-bike things is important too, like sticky fold-out legs on washstands. I also check my clown pump to make sure it is not seized or has a bad gasket or needs lube. -- Jay Beattie. |
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