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Britain gets its first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priority tobicycles - but motorists condemn it as 'confusing'



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 6th 20, 04:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Mason[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,244
Default Britain gets its first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priority tobicycles - but motorists condemn it as 'confusing'

QUOTE:
Britain's first Dutch-style roundabout that prioritises cyclists and pedestrians has been blasted by motorists as 'confusing', 'a cyclist killing zone' and 'an overspend' after the council blew £2.3million on it.

Cyclists have an outer ring on the Cambridge roundabout, with cycle crossings over each of the four approach roads in a contrasting red surface.

There are also zebra crossings over each approach road for pedestrians and motorists must give way to pedestrians and cyclists when joining and leaving the roundabout.

Reduced lane widths on the roundabout and at exit and entry points are designed to encourage drivers to slow down.

It comes as Boris Johnson plans to build dozens of 'Mini-Holland' schemes where vehicle use is restricted in towns and suburbs to encourage walking and cycling.
Drivers have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists as they approach the roundabout. Cars must also give way when they exit the roundabout. Cyclists have priority over cars but must slow down and look to make sure they are stopping. Pedestrians have priority over cyclists and cars
+13

Drivers have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists as they approach the roundabout. Cars must also give way when they exit the roundabout. Cyclists have priority over cars but must slow down and look to make sure they are stopping. Pedestrians have priority over cyclists and cars
There are also zebra crossings over each approach road for pedestrians. Motorists must give way to pedestrians and cyclists when joining and leaving the roundabout

There are also zebra crossings over each approach road for pedestrians. Motorists must give way to pedestrians and cyclists when joining and leaving the roundabout
Reduced lane widths on the roundabout and at exit and entry points are designed to encourage car drivers to slow down


Reduced lane widths on the roundabout and at exit and entry points are designed to encourage car drivers to slow down
What are Dutch-style roundabouts?

A Dutch-style roundabout has parallel crossings (cycle and pedestrian zebra crossings) on each arm which enables pedestrians and cyclists to have priority over motorists.

The entry and exit arms are perpendicular, rather than tangential, to the roundabout and have minimal flare.

Also, by reducing the width of the arms and circulatory carriageway, vehicle speeds reduce.

A central over-run area will allow larger vehicles to manoeuvre round the roundabout.

The UK's first Dutch-style junction was officially opened last week and is the first of its kind in the UK.

Cambridgeshire County Council said the old roundabout near Addenbrooke's Hospital 'was perceived by many people to be dangerous to cycle around'.

People also 'reported feeling unsafe when walking in the area due to a lack of pedestrian crossings, particularly more vulnerable users', the authority said.

But locals have branded the new system 'confusing', a 'killing zone' and called for new road networks instead of 'further slowing it down'.

Paul Howell said: 'Can't wait for everyone (yes everyone) to get confused and the accidents to start happening. How about spending the money on road schemes that need it.'

Alice Hodkinson said: 'Really Bad. This is a cyclist killing zone, like radegund road Perne Road.'

Tony Stark said: 'Putting pedestrian crossings on these in Cambridge is loading the bullet into a gun. I hope when the accidents start building up, the city council will be willing to pay out as ultimately it will be their fault.

'The road networks in Cambridge are out dated and can not deal with the current and ever increasing flow. Better road networks should be a priority not further slowing it down and prioritising pedestrian and cycle ways.'

And Helen Lake added: 'We have similar roundabouts in France and I do not think they are a good idea because of the pedestrian crossings being placed so close to the roundabout.
Cambridgeshire County Council said the old roundabout near Addenbrooke's Hospital 'was perceived by many people to be dangerous to cycle around'.
Cambridgeshire County Council said the old roundabout near Addenbrooke's Hospital 'was perceived by many people to be dangerous to cycle around'.

Locals have branded the new system 'confusing', a 'killing zone' and called for new road networks instead of 'further slowing it down'
Some locals blasted the cost of the scheme, originally estimated at around £800,000, which had almost trebled to £2.3million by the end of the project
+13

Some locals blasted the cost of the scheme, originally estimated at around £800,000, which had almost trebled to £2.3million by the end of the proje


'Cars wishing to exit the roundabout will be blocked by people crossing - in France the majority of the time they don't bother to stop at zebra crossing anyway... but when they do, cars fill up the circulation space on the roundabout. Not a good idea at all.'

Some have also blasted the cost of the scheme, originally estimated at around £800,000, which had almost trebled to £2.3million by the end of the project.

Graham Smith wrote on Twitter: 'Just cycled round the £2.5m Dutch roundabout. No other cyclists in sight. White elephant maybe.

'Only been open a week and already the red tarmac is disappearing under tyre tracks. I would still like to know who's paying for the overspend.'

Gabriel Bienzobas put: 'Personally I wouldn't have built this roundabout, not at £2.4m, not at £800k. The Dutch, 40 years ago, didn't start by building these types of roundabout, priority or not, they started by creating play streets and filtering the traffic away from streets to trunk roads.'

And Adam Brown added: 'It's actually really awful to cycle round though. The previous roundabout had problems but this is worse.'

The project was originally proposed to cost £1.4million. The forecast was adjusted in 2019 to £1.5million, though eventually cost closer to £2.4million

The project was originally proposed to cost £1.4million. The forecast was adjusted in 2019 to £1.5million, though eventually cost closer to £2.4million

A council highways report cited additional utility work including BT and UK Power Networks cabling, as well as the Covid-19 pandemic, as reasons for this.

Roxanne De Beaux, executive director of the Cambridge Cycling Campaign, said the new roundabout 'feels like a small piece of Dutch cycling heaven'.

'I feel very safe with this layout, the geometry made it easy to see the cars leaving and approaching the roundabout and the people driving were all giving way to the people cycling and walking,' she said.
Boris Johnson's plans for 'mini-Hollands':

The PM announced three outer boroughs in the capital as selected to become 'mini-Hollands' in a scheme costing Transport for London £90million.

The areas - Enfield, Kingston and Waltham Forest - were chosen for having low levels of cycling.

There will be 'intensive, transformational spending on their roads and streetscapes to make them, over time, as cycle and pedestrian-friendly as their Dutch equivalents'.

There are already segregated lanes on main roads for bikes and pedestrians have been given 'thousands of metres' more space.

The government is also looking to roll this out across the country, with 12 non-London local authorities to take part in a similar scheme.

The aim is to reduce the reliance on cars in built-up areas and the target communities will be where there is currently little cycling.

Ian Bates, chairman of the Highways and Transport Committee, said: 'I am delighted to see the completion of improvements to this roundabout, which aim to improve safety at this busy junction and encourage more people to walk and cycle.

'It is great to see Cambridgeshire leading the way in implementing the first truly Dutch-inspired roundabout that improves safety for vulnerable users, ahead of recent nationally published Government guidance that strongly promotes this type of infrastructure.'

AA president Edmund King said: 'The Dutch roundabout is like Edam cheese – liked by many, but not to everyone's taste. However, the fact of the matter is that road systems will have to evolve as modes of personal transport change, including the introduction of electric bikes and scooters.

'What works in one country or specific location might not work everywhere. But, if we don't put different concepts to the test, the UK won't know what works best for all road-users. I have used such roundabouts in Holland and they work well with the adjacent infrastructure.

'Places like Cambridge and Oxford with a strong cycling culture, particularly among students, may find a Dutch roundabout works well. Elsewhere it may take longer to adapt.'

The PM last week said he is planning to subsidise electronic bicycles for pensioners and commuters as part of plans to massively increase cycling through a £2billion anti-obesity drive.

The e-bikes are like regular bikes but have a small motor usually hidden in the frame to aid travel uphill or on longer journeys.

Ministers hope the programme will help those who are less fit or older, who might be daunted by regular bikes, to get back in the saddle.

They could be given up to a third off the £600 - £3,000 cost of a new machine to entice them to take more exercise or leave the car at home.

Mr Johnson launched the campaign in Nottinghamshire last Monday, urging motorists to 'be courteous' towards cyclists.

The PM said drivers must understand they will be 'sharing the roads' as measures costing £2 billion are taken to promote cycling and walking.

Bicycles will be prescribed by doctors for patients and all Britons will be offered free training on how to ride.

Free repair vouchers worth £50 will be handed out and there will be a massive expansion of cycle lanes as part of a revolution unveiled last Monday.

Mr Johnson said: 'What we will do is create thousands of miles of protected cycle lanes - I really believe that protected cycle lanes are essential to give people the confidence people need, many people aren't very brave or confident cyclists.'

He added: 'What I also want to see is more work done to get motorists to understand that we are all going to be sharing the roads, going to be sharing it with cyclists, so be respectful, be courteous.

'Things have been improving but there's still a long way to go.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-cyclists.html
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  #2  
Old August 6th 20, 07:04 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Kerr-Mudd,John[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Britain gets its first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priority to bicycles - but motorists condemn it as 'confusing'

On Thu, 06 Aug 2020 15:37:53 GMT, Simon Mason
wrote:

QUOTE:

[a bit long]

Ministers hope the programme will help those who are less fit or
older, who might be daunted by regular bikes, to get back in the
saddle.

They could be given up to a third off the £600 - £3,000 cost of a
new machine to entice them to take more exercise or leave the car at
home.

[]
Bicycles will be prescribed by doctors for patients and all Britons
will be offered free training on how to ride.


There's no better time for the trolls here to get on a bike and find out
what it's like!


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
  #3  
Old August 6th 20, 09:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mike Collins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 817
Default Britain gets its first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priorityto bicycles - but motorists condemn it as 'confusing'

On Thursday, 6 August 2020 16:37:54 UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
QUOTE:
Britain's first Dutch-style roundabout that prioritises cyclists and pedestrians has been blasted by motorists as 'confusing', 'a cyclist killing zone' and 'an overspend' after the council blew £2.3million on it.

Cyclists have an outer ring on the Cambridge roundabout, with cycle crossings over each of the four approach roads in a contrasting red surface.

There are also zebra crossings over each approach road for pedestrians and motorists must give way to pedestrians and cyclists when joining and leaving the roundabout.

Reduced lane widths on the roundabout and at exit and entry points are designed to encourage drivers to slow down.

It comes as Boris Johnson plans to build dozens of 'Mini-Holland' schemes where vehicle use is restricted in towns and suburbs to encourage walking and cycling.
Drivers have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists as they approach the roundabout. Cars must also give way when they exit the roundabout. Cyclists have priority over cars but must slow down and look to make sure they are stopping. Pedestrians have priority over cyclists and cars
+13

Drivers have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists as they approach the roundabout. Cars must also give way when they exit the roundabout. Cyclists have priority over cars but must slow down and look to make sure they are stopping. Pedestrians have priority over cyclists and cars
There are also zebra crossings over each approach road for pedestrians. Motorists must give way to pedestrians and cyclists when joining and leaving the roundabout

There are also zebra crossings over each approach road for pedestrians. Motorists must give way to pedestrians and cyclists when joining and leaving the roundabout
Reduced lane widths on the roundabout and at exit and entry points are designed to encourage car drivers to slow down


Reduced lane widths on the roundabout and at exit and entry points are designed to encourage car drivers to slow down
What are Dutch-style roundabouts?

A Dutch-style roundabout has parallel crossings (cycle and pedestrian zebra crossings) on each arm which enables pedestrians and cyclists to have priority over motorists.

The entry and exit arms are perpendicular, rather than tangential, to the roundabout and have minimal flare.

Also, by reducing the width of the arms and circulatory carriageway, vehicle speeds reduce.

A central over-run area will allow larger vehicles to manoeuvre round the roundabout.

The UK's first Dutch-style junction was officially opened last week and is the first of its kind in the UK.

Cambridgeshire County Council said the old roundabout near Addenbrooke's Hospital 'was perceived by many people to be dangerous to cycle around'.

People also 'reported feeling unsafe when walking in the area due to a lack of pedestrian crossings, particularly more vulnerable users', the authority said.

But locals have branded the new system 'confusing', a 'killing zone' and called for new road networks instead of 'further slowing it down'.

Paul Howell said: 'Can't wait for everyone (yes everyone) to get confused and the accidents to start happening. How about spending the money on road schemes that need it.'

Alice Hodkinson said: 'Really Bad. This is a cyclist killing zone, like radegund road Perne Road.'

Tony Stark said: 'Putting pedestrian crossings on these in Cambridge is loading the bullet into a gun. I hope when the accidents start building up, the city council will be willing to pay out as ultimately it will be their fault.

'The road networks in Cambridge are out dated and can not deal with the current and ever increasing flow. Better road networks should be a priority not further slowing it down and prioritising pedestrian and cycle ways.'

And Helen Lake added: 'We have similar roundabouts in France and I do not think they are a good idea because of the pedestrian crossings being placed so close to the roundabout.
Cambridgeshire County Council said the old roundabout near Addenbrooke's Hospital 'was perceived by many people to be dangerous to cycle around'.
Cambridgeshire County Council said the old roundabout near Addenbrooke's Hospital 'was perceived by many people to be dangerous to cycle around'.

Locals have branded the new system 'confusing', a 'killing zone' and called for new road networks instead of 'further slowing it down'
Some locals blasted the cost of the scheme, originally estimated at around £800,000, which had almost trebled to £2.3million by the end of the project
+13

Some locals blasted the cost of the scheme, originally estimated at around £800,000, which had almost trebled to £2.3million by the end of the proje


'Cars wishing to exit the roundabout will be blocked by people crossing - in France the majority of the time they don't bother to stop at zebra crossing anyway... but when they do, cars fill up the circulation space on the roundabout. Not a good idea at all.'

Some have also blasted the cost of the scheme, originally estimated at around £800,000, which had almost trebled to £2.3million by the end of the project.

Graham Smith wrote on Twitter: 'Just cycled round the £2.5m Dutch roundabout. No other cyclists in sight. White elephant maybe.

'Only been open a week and already the red tarmac is disappearing under tyre tracks. I would still like to know who's paying for the overspend.'

Gabriel Bienzobas put: 'Personally I wouldn't have built this roundabout, not at £2.4m, not at £800k. The Dutch, 40 years ago, didn't start by building these types of roundabout, priority or not, they started by creating play streets and filtering the traffic away from streets to trunk roads.'

And Adam Brown added: 'It's actually really awful to cycle round though. The previous roundabout had problems but this is worse.'

The project was originally proposed to cost £1.4million. The forecast was adjusted in 2019 to £1.5million, though eventually cost closer to £2.4million

The project was originally proposed to cost £1.4million. The forecast was adjusted in 2019 to £1.5million, though eventually cost closer to £2.4million

A council highways report cited additional utility work including BT and UK Power Networks cabling, as well as the Covid-19 pandemic, as reasons for this.

Roxanne De Beaux, executive director of the Cambridge Cycling Campaign, said the new roundabout 'feels like a small piece of Dutch cycling heaven'.

'I feel very safe with this layout, the geometry made it easy to see the cars leaving and approaching the roundabout and the people driving were all giving way to the people cycling and walking,' she said.
Boris Johnson's plans for 'mini-Hollands':

The PM announced three outer boroughs in the capital as selected to become 'mini-Hollands' in a scheme costing Transport for London £90million.

The areas - Enfield, Kingston and Waltham Forest - were chosen for having low levels of cycling.

There will be 'intensive, transformational spending on their roads and streetscapes to make them, over time, as cycle and pedestrian-friendly as their Dutch equivalents'.

There are already segregated lanes on main roads for bikes and pedestrians have been given 'thousands of metres' more space.

The government is also looking to roll this out across the country, with 12 non-London local authorities to take part in a similar scheme.

The aim is to reduce the reliance on cars in built-up areas and the target communities will be where there is currently little cycling.

Ian Bates, chairman of the Highways and Transport Committee, said: 'I am delighted to see the completion of improvements to this roundabout, which aim to improve safety at this busy junction and encourage more people to walk and cycle.

'It is great to see Cambridgeshire leading the way in implementing the first truly Dutch-inspired roundabout that improves safety for vulnerable users, ahead of recent nationally published Government guidance that strongly promotes this type of infrastructure.'

AA president Edmund King said: 'The Dutch roundabout is like Edam cheese – liked by many, but not to everyone's taste. However, the fact of the matter is that road systems will have to evolve as modes of personal transport change, including the introduction of electric bikes and scooters.

'What works in one country or specific location might not work everywhere.. But, if we don't put different concepts to the test, the UK won't know what works best for all road-users. I have used such roundabouts in Holland and they work well with the adjacent infrastructure.

'Places like Cambridge and Oxford with a strong cycling culture, particularly among students, may find a Dutch roundabout works well. Elsewhere it may take longer to adapt.'

The PM last week said he is planning to subsidise electronic bicycles for pensioners and commuters as part of plans to massively increase cycling through a £2billion anti-obesity drive.

The e-bikes are like regular bikes but have a small motor usually hidden in the frame to aid travel uphill or on longer journeys.

Ministers hope the programme will help those who are less fit or older, who might be daunted by regular bikes, to get back in the saddle.

They could be given up to a third off the £600 - £3,000 cost of a new machine to entice them to take more exercise or leave the car at home.

Mr Johnson launched the campaign in Nottinghamshire last Monday, urging motorists to 'be courteous' towards cyclists.

The PM said drivers must understand they will be 'sharing the roads' as measures costing £2 billion are taken to promote cycling and walking.

Bicycles will be prescribed by doctors for patients and all Britons will be offered free training on how to ride.

Free repair vouchers worth £50 will be handed out and there will be a massive expansion of cycle lanes as part of a revolution unveiled last Monday.

Mr Johnson said: 'What we will do is create thousands of miles of protected cycle lanes - I really believe that protected cycle lanes are essential to give people the confidence people need, many people aren't very brave or confident cyclists.'

He added: 'What I also want to see is more work done to get motorists to understand that we are all going to be sharing the roads, going to be sharing it with cyclists, so be respectful, be courteous.

'Things have been improving but there's still a long way to go.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-cyclists.html


It does not surprise me motorists are 'confused' by the idea of giving way to cyclists. They also seem 'confused' by a sign with a white background a red circle and a number in the middle. Not to mention their colour blindness when it comes to traffic lights.
  #4  
Old August 6th 20, 09:18 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Kerr-Mudd,John[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Britain gets its first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priority to bicycles - but motorists condemn it as 'confusing'

On Thu, 06 Aug 2020 20:05:39 GMT, Mike Collins
wrote:

On Thursday, 6 August 2020 16:37:54 UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:


QUOTE:
230ish lines

C'mon; snip a bit!

It does not surprise me motorists are 'confused' by the idea of giving
way to cyclists. They also seem 'confused' by a sign with a white
background a red circle and a number in the middle. Not to mention
their colour blindness when it comes to traffic lights.


Sadly I see bad behaviour on a daily basis; it seems to be getting worse
again 'back to normal RLJ, 35-40 in a 30, not slowing at a roundabout.
Amazing how many vehicles have 3 brake lights. That's before I mention
the noised-up boyracer mobiles.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
  #5  
Old August 6th 20, 09:51 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Mason[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,244
Default Britain gets its first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priorityto bicycles - but motorists condemn it as 'confusing'

On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 9:18:40 PM UTC+1, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
again 'back to normal RLJ, 35-40 in a 30, not slowing at a roundabout.
Amazing how many vehicles have 3 brake lights.


Whose owners can't be bothered to use their handbrake, thus blinding anyone behind them.
  #6  
Old August 6th 20, 11:33 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,875
Default Britain gets its first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priority to bicycles - but motorists condemn it as 'confusing'

On 06/08/2020 21:51, Simon Mason wrote:

Whose owners can't be bothered to use their handbrake, thus blinding
anyone behind them.


Unfortunately manufacturers are encouraging this. I now have stop/start
and DCT gearbox and keeping the foot on the brake is pretty much
unavoidable. Lifting the brake restarts the engine and using the
handbrake causes the clutch to cook. It's far from ideal.

When traffic is gridlocked and only moves half a length at irregular
intervals then I don't bother with S/S and use handbrake and neutral.
The brake pedal is not a footrest and it's tiring to keep it pressed
down. I don't know how some people can sit there for seemingly forever.

 




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