The dream is back

"Jon Meinecke" wrote in message
news:1096047235.6nHdMIREECmKwrgvh/xang@teranews...
[...]
The perception that uprights are faster than recumbents is
skewed by a number of factors. Not the least of which is
the fact to compete as a go-fast or wanna-be you "gotta
fit in." Gotta have the 'right' type of bike, h*lm*t, jersey,
aftershave... %^) Comparing the subset of upright riders
who want to go fast with the subset of bike riders who
choose recumbents almost certainly leads to no accurate
conclusion regarding the inherent speed potential of
recumbent bikes.

The man factor, and it is not a perception, is that recumbents are slow
climbing hills. No matter how fast you are going down hills and on the
flats, where a recumbent has a slight advantage due to aerodynamics, you
will never make up this very major disadvantage. Therefore, overall you will
be slower.

I can see recumbents racing against uprights in time trials, but I can't see
them racing against uprights in the mountains. Unfortunately, for
recumbents, this world is just chock full of hills and mountains.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:31:10 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote in message
:

The /existence/ of the KMX is very good evidence that it is.

Oh yes indeed. Demand led from the padawan up, that is. You have no
idea the amount of pestering we're getting from our two, and that's
after two years of occasional rides. The KMX is Big Fun, and now they
do a grown-up version too, we can all have one :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:33:09 -0500, "Edward Dolan"
wrote in message :

The /existence/ of the KMX is very good evidence that it is.
Most likely just another flash in the pan. Here today - gone tomorrow.

After two years of continuous pestering from my sons, I'd say not.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:48:17 GMT, "Lars S. Mulford"
wrote in message 5Ky4d.3320$fa.2184@trndny09:

"Young folks wouldn't be caught dead on a recumbent"
You're wrong on the above comment.

Absolutely. The 14-16 age group can't make up their mind whether it's
"kewl" to like them or not, since recumbents are a bit geeky but well
different, but the most common comment i get on my 'bent is "wow!
cool bike!". Kids aged up to about 10 or 12 are magnetically
attracted to recumbents, and you have only to look at the queues to
try KMX Karts wherever they appear to know that they are undoubtedly
cooler than a cool thing sitting in a ice bucket on a particularly
cool day.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Jon Meinecke" wrote in message
news:1096047235.6nHdMIREECmKwrgvh/xang@teranews...
"Mark Leuck" wrote
reason is people in the 20 to 30 age bracket think
they are slow and they at least in the Dallas Texas
area that IS the case

Tonight I rode 42 miles at 21.03mph (low hills, some
fast straights) and I cannot tell you how many people
told me "Hey I didn't know those things could go that fast".

To paraphrase the "G*ns don't kill" bumper sticker,

"Bikes don't go slow (or fast), People do!" %^)

For the most part yes although I could never get close to that average on
my Vision R-50, many recumbents won't do that no matter the rider because
they aren't designed for it

So a paceline of "serious" upright road bike riders passed
me and my friend on our bikes like we're standing still. They
think, man, those recumbent bikes are slow. But my friend
is riding a road bike. Do they think, "man those road
bikes are slow"? No, they think that poor guy has to
go slow because of his friend is on a recumbent! %^)
I'm pretty sure when they pass a road bike rider, they
simply think they're faster riders.

Agreed

The perception that uprights are faster than recumbents is
skewed by a number of factors. Not the least of which is
the fact to compete as a go-fast or wanna-be you "gotta
fit in." Gotta have the 'right' type of bike, h*lm*t, jersey,
aftershave... %^) Comparing the subset of upright riders
who want to go fast with the subset of bike riders who
choose recumbents almost certainly leads to no accurate
conclusion regarding the inherent speed potential of
recumbent bikes.

No question, I'm sure people in my area consider me the odd one on the
Optima Baron, I've also had comments like "Well that thing is more
aerodynamic so of course you are faster" which merely tells me they are on
outdated technology

I'm certainly beyond the 20-30 year-old range and likely
won't ever sustain 21 mph for two hours, unless there's
a 20mph tailwind. After I bought my first recumbent,
my question to myself was why didn't I do this sooner,
like when I was 20 or 30. I'm faster on my recumbent than
*I* was on my upright and I have better stamina and I'm
having more fun!

Well I'm 44 so it is possible

Even if the bike wasn't faster I'd still rather have it than a standard DF

If younger people don't want to try recumbents, that's their
choice. There are a number of good reasons to ride uprights!
There's certainly a lot more choices and availability over a
broader price range. Even so, some (perhaps most) upright
riders don't know what they're missing.

I look at it this way

1. Young adult sees a recumbent and is impressed
2. Young adult looks up that recumbent on the web and finds a dealer
3. Young adult goes to that dealer and sees the recumbent
4. Young adult looks at the price tag
5. Young adult buys a Trek wedgie instead

Part of the reason they won't buy them is ignorance, part of it is price and
most of it is availability of the product which is scarce depend on the
brand

I'd invite you up to ride the rural roads just up the road from
Dallas where I ride, but I'm afraid I fit the stereotype of
recumbent riders. I'd never keep up with you at sustained
20+ mph average, but then neither would most upright
bicyclists. %^P

Where are you at and what bike do you ride?

John Riley wrote:

...
BROL does suit me better, but it seems like this is easier to find for
alot of people who want to talk about recumbents, so I do look in....

Ignoring any differences in the posting habits of the regulars of
a.r.b.r and BROL, web based forums are slow, cumbersome and clunky,
while Usenet has a minimalist elegance and functionality.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:48:17 GMT, "Lars S. Mulford"
wrote in message 5Ky4d.3320$fa.2184@trndny09:

Edward Dolan wrote:

"Young folks wouldn't be caught dead on a recumbent"

Lars Mulford wrote:

You're wrong on the above comment.

Absolutely. The 14-16 age group can't make up their mind whether it's
"kewl" to like them or not, since recumbents are a bit geeky but well
different, but the most common comment i get on my 'bent is "wow!
cool bike!". Kids aged up to about 10 or 12 are magnetically
attracted to recumbents, and you have only to look at the queues to
try KMX Karts wherever they appear to know that they are undoubtedly
cooler than a cool thing sitting in a ice bucket on a particularly
cool day.

Yes, yes, kids of a certain age think recumbents are cool - or at least that
is what they think should be the appropriate comment whenever they see one.
But they do not ride them nor do they truly want them. They love their BMX
bikes to the exclusion of everything else. By the time they get old enough
for a proper road bike, they are into cars and are lost to cycling forever -
until they get old like us and start worrying about their health. So then
they take up recumbent cycling with some seriousness prior to their deaths.

Most of us die right on schedule whether we get any exercise or not, but at
least we feel better if we get some exercise. Frankly, if I lived in an
interesting city, I would take up walking. But it has always been my fate to
live in an uninteresting area in which to walk and so I cycle. You would
have to be crazy to walk in my town. But cycling works just about anywhere
if it is not too mountainous.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
John Riley wrote:

...
BROL does suit me better, but it seems like this is easier to find for
a lot of people who want to talk about recumbents, so I do look in....

Ignoring any differences in the posting habits of the regulars of a.r.b.r
and BROL, web based forums are slow, cumbersome and clunky, while Usenet
has a minimalist elegance and functionality.

The posting habits of some of the regulars are into nothing but stroking one
another. The end for them is to leave the group with a good feeling about
themselves and the group. They are more like women than men that way. Those
type of posters have a difficult time with me because I do not care about
creating good feelings.

I am here to say what is on my mind and I let the chips fall where they may.
Since the world is a rotten place, why shouldn't ARBR also be a rotten
place. BROL is for fantasy; ARBR is for reality. I want people to be real -
not nice.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:09:23 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote in message
:

Ignoring any differences in the posting habits of the regulars of
a.r.b.r and BROL, web based forums are slow, cumbersome and clunky,
while Usenet has a minimalist elegance and functionality.

And Usenet comes to you, using your preferred software, gathering
diverse sources in one place, whereas web-based forums require you top
visit them, each site in turn.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:47:03 -0500, "Edward Dolan"
wrote in message :

kids of a certain age think recumbents are cool - or at least that
is what they think should be the appropriate comment whenever they see one.
But they do not ride them nor do they truly want them.

They don't have $2000 to spend on a bike. The new KMX Kart is $500,
much less if you can find a second-hand one, and I am seeing lots of
kids at cycle rallies who own them. Not many "in the wild" but
they've only been out a couple of years. And they are great for doing
tricks, so check that box.

By the time they get old enough
for a proper road bike, they are into cars and are lost to cycling forever -
until they get old like us and start worrying about their health. So then
they take up recumbent cycling with some seriousness prior to their deaths.

Maybe in the US, but not here. Cycling is a mainstream form of
transport for teens, and although levels are still well down on where
they were in the 1930s there is a strong and growing culture of
tranportational and enthusiast cycling. There are large road racing,
touring and track cycling clubs in my town, and many of the riders are
young. There is even a kids' track cycling club at the local
velodrome. And this is just an ordinary provincial town.

Some recent reports put cycling as more popular than football in the
UK, in terms of numbers of participants.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University