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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
On May 12, 6:05 pm, " wrote:
Hello, There's no doubt that we'll see astronomical gasoline prices soon in the future. Of course, one would think that this would lead to an increase in cycling. However, I think human beings (especially Americans) are too lazy for bicycles, and we'll probably see an increase in horses for transportation [according to this it's already happening:http://www.wyff4.com/news/15968363/detail.html]. But, I have to admit that - yes, I'm surprised - I've actually seen an increase in cyclists? Have you guys too? Regards, Cullenwww.comatimes.blogspot.com Nope. I've not seen more bike in street yet. Oh i'm not sure we are gonna see more bike in street due to the high gas price. people can't ride a bike here. They are addicted to big car. |
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#12
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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
In article ,
" writes: Hello, There's no doubt that we'll see astronomical gasoline prices soon in the future. Of course, one would think that this would lead to an increase in cycling. I think it's a reasonable conjecture that more people (not everybody) will supplement their tranportation options with bicycles -- use the bicycle for short, infra-urban trips where use of a motor vehicle would really be overkill, and reserve their motor vehicles for the longer/heavier haul, and get more for their gas money. People will become more selective in their transportation options. I don't foresee any sudden car-bike paradigm shift, as cycling adovates are accused of conspiring towards, by so many car addicts. However, I think human beings (especially Americans) are too lazy for bicycles, I think a lot of non-cycling North Americans are simply blithely ... ~uninformed~ about the viability of cycling. Perhaps many have an irrational lack of confidence in their incipient cycling abilities. Perhaps many have tried it -- once -- and decided it's too much hard work for what one gets from it. For a tyro rider or an adult who hasn't ridden since they were 12, it /is/ hard work at first. New ridership needs mucn empathy & support. And of course, some folks are just irredeemably prejudiced against bikes. and we'll probably see an increase in horses for transportation [according to this it's already happening: http://www.wyff4.com/news/15968363/detail.html]. I know worldwide, bicycles outnumber motor vehicles by quite a large margin. From that I extrapolate they must also outnumber harness/halter-broken horses. Maybe world-wide, bicycles are the #1 transportation choice? OTOH I hear on the news media about how automobile use is on the increase in developing nations. But, I have to admit that - yes, I'm surprised - I've actually seen an increase in cyclists? Have you guys too? It's hard to tell; we have so many riders here. I'm happily one of 'em. cheers, Tom -- Nothing is safe from me. I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca |
#13
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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:53:12 -0700, Bob wrote:
On May 12, 8:05*pm, " wrote: Hello, There's no doubt that we'll see astronomical gasoline prices soon in the future. Of course, one would think that this would lead to an increase in cycling. However, I think human beings (especially Americans) are too lazy for bicycles, and we'll probably see an increase in horses for transportation [according to this it's already happening:http://www.wyff4.com/news/15968363/detail.html]. But, I have to admit that - yes, I'm surprised - I've actually seen an increase in cyclists? Have you guys too? 1- I don't think there's any evidence that Americans are any more lazy than the citizens of any other country. If anything it's the opposite, with cultural pressure to always appear to be productive, not "wasting time" on a bicycle. In the US, bicycles are seen as toys for children and immature adults. I think this is why there's so much emphasis on racing in bike marketing in the US. Americans feel they have to justify their interest in cycling by pretending it's a serious athletic pursuit. 2- Horses, besides not being too welcome on city streets unless they are pulling a couple snuggling in a carriage or being ridden by a police officer, require a heck of a lot more work than does riding a bike. Ever mucked out a stable or unloaded a truckload of alfalfa? ;-) This is true. We'll never go "back to horses" because we never came from horses to begin with. This idea comes from our own car culture projected backwards. No one ever saddled up to fetch a quart of milk! Most people walked. Draft animals for pulling heavy loads were as likely to be mules or oxen as horses. When bikes came around in the late 1800s they were immediately popular among those who could afford them (about $4000, adjusted for inflation) -- not just for their novelty, but their transportation value, practicality, and economy. 3- I haven't noticed any increased bicycle usage. I have, but it's a trend that started before the latest runup in fuel prices. BTW, in the UK they've been paying $8/gallon for years. If anything, it's the congestion pricing in central London that has put more people on bikes. Matt O. |
#14
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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
Jobst,
As the chief trainspotter here, what have you heard lately about the CA high speed rail line from LA to SFO through Bakersfield and Fresno? Sounds like a good deal to me, especially if they allow bikes aboard. :-) Matt O. |
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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
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#16
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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
Matt O'Toole wrote:
There's no doubt that we'll see astronomical gasoline prices soon in the future. Of course, one would think that this would lead to an increase in cycling. However, I think human beings (especially Americans) are too lazy for bicycles, and we'll probably see an increase in horses for transportation [according to this it's already happening:http://www.wyff4.com/news/15968363/detail.html]. But, I have to admit that - yes, I'm surprised - I've actually seen an increase in cyclists? Have you guys too? 1) I don't think there's any evidence that Americans are any more lazy than the citizens of any other country. If anything it's the opposite, with cultural pressure to always appear to be productive, not "wasting time" on a bicycle. In the US, bicycles are seen as toys for children and immature adults. I think this is why there's so much emphasis on racing in bike marketing in the US. Americans feel they have to justify their interest in cycling by pretending it's a serious athletic pursuit. 2) Horses, besides not being too welcome on city streets unless they are pulling a couple snuggling in a carriage or being ridden by a police officer, require a heck of a lot more work than does riding a bike. Ever mucked out a stable or unloaded a truckload of alfalfa? This is true. We'll never go "back to horses" because we never came from horses to begin with. This idea comes from our own car culture projected backwards. No one ever saddled up to fetch a quart of milk! Most people walked. Draft animals for pulling heavy loads were as likely to be mules or oxen as horses. When bikes came around in the late 1800s they were immediately popular among those who could afford them (about $4000, adjusted for inflation) -- not just for their novelty, but their transportation value, practicality, and economy. 3) I haven't noticed any increased bicycle usage. I have, but it's a trend that started before the latest runup in fuel prices. BTW, in the UK they've been paying $8/gallon for years. If anything, it's the congestion pricing in central London that has put more people on bikes. As I see it, the US appreciation of bicycles agrees with yours and may go even farther: http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/6.1.html Jobst Brandt |
#17
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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
Matt O'Toole wrote:
As the chief trainspotter here, what have you heard lately about the CA high speed rail line from LA to SFO through Bakersfield and Fresno? Sounds like a good deal to me, especially if they allow bikes aboard. Quentin Kopp is haeding up the task force and he is making good progress. The big noise (smoke but no fire) is wheterh the cut-over from the Californina Central Valley to the SF Bay Area crosses at Los BaƱos or the existing rail corridor over Altamont pass. Other than that, funding is available and has been voted for. Jobst Brandt |
#18
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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
wrote in message ... Cullen Carter wrote: There's no doubt that we'll see astronomical gasoline prices soon in the future. Are you sure it won't be in the past? That might be truer than you intended. Peak Oil theories aside I would not be surprised if we eventually repeat the 70's 80's 90's.... errrrr.... cycle again. Grossy summarized, the price spikes of the 70's caused a huge gain in efficiencies. Car kilometerage increased dramatically, insulation and energy efficiency similarly improved. And yes previously uneconomic sources of oil came online. In fact it took pretty much two decades before that excess supply was sopped up by the low price driven craze of massive SUV's and prolifigate usage. I suspect that within 5 years the 'cycle' will be repeating. Of course, one would think that this would lead to an increase in cycling. I'd rather not. If they are riding because they are financially pressed, they won't be friendly toward avocational riders, especially ones that flaunt expensive "racing" equipment and dress up like their professional idols. Most might fit that description. But amnongst the dross some might be converted. |
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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
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#20
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Gas prices and an increase in cycling?
Matt O'Toole wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:53:12 -0700, Bob wrote: 1- I don't think there's any evidence that Americans are any more lazy than the citizens of any other country. If anything it's the opposite, with cultural pressure to always appear to be productive, not "wasting time" on a bicycle. In the US, bicycles are seen as toys for children and immature adults. That's a mighty wide brush you're painting with. I've ridden seriously in various parts of the U.S. as an adult for something like 35 years now. While this is anecdotal evidence, I don't think I've ever encountered the label of immature adult or toy user in that time. I have encountered aggressive behavior from some people, but those are not the common reactions. I think this is why there's so much emphasis on racing in bike marketing in the US. Americans feel they have to justify their interest in cycling by pretending it's a serious athletic pursuit. Maybe, or perhaps the bicycle makers push the high priced bicycles because the profit margin is much greater there. I will make one observation about cycling that I have noticed in the U.S. but not in Europe, where I have lived a couple of times. In the U.S. bicycle advocates often live bicycling and pretty much not much else, to the degree that some of them are boring and more than a little annoying. IME, in Europe, people just ride bikes for transportation or for exercise/entertainment and don't tend to claim any moral superiority because of it. 3- I haven't noticed any increased bicycle usage. I have, but it's a trend that started before the latest runup in fuel prices. I am seeing more adults riding in neighborhoods and on running/bike paths...not so much on the roads where I ride. There is a fear factor involved here, I believe. High speed auto traffic and bicycles are a mix that's daunting for many folks, and in suburban areas, which is where a significant part of the local population resides, there are a lot of neighborhoods connected by highspeed arteries. Out here in the burbs, there are no safely accessible places to shop by bicycle either. BTW, in the UK they've been paying $8/gallon for years. If anything, it's the congestion pricing in central London that has put more people on bikes. Actually, in the UK, gasoline is priced in English pounds. Converting the prices to dollars right now simply indicates how far the dollar has fallen against other currencies. FWIW, petrol prices in the U.K. have been high for years due to high rates of taxation. The same is generally true in the rest of Europe. One more point. Places like London, Paris, Rome etc. have mass transit that is effective for two reasons. First, the cities were built way before the advent of automobiles so retrofitting an automobile culture is difficult and second, they have population densities that make mass transit more cost-effective. An alternative to vast daily migration to places of work from homes would be to distribute work closer to peoples' homes, or to implement more telecommuting options. Matt O. -- They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war, there is nothing sweet nor fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason. -- Ernest Hemingway |
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