Entering the queue at a stop sign

As a novice biker, I am curious what you are supposed to do when there
is a stop sign with about 5 to 10 vehicles lined up to get their turn.

Most of the time I have seen cyclists fly by all the traffic right
up to the stop sign. Isn't this kind of dangerous? I know it's
not proper to pass traffic on the right, and I have often seen a
car suddenly pull out (which would be into a cyclist) using a
lane, gravel shoulder, etc to make an impromptu right turn.

On the other hand, I can't see a cyclist entering the queue with
vehicles. At least I don't think I've ever seen this done.

Also, what is the proper way to make a left turn at a typical
busy 4-lane or 6-lane boulevard? Do you keep to the right and
make two crossings?

Good question...

fwiw, for me it depends on how long the line. If the line is only a
few cars, I take my place at the back and wait my turn. This is safest
because I take the lane. I'm not beside anyone who could potentially
turn right (I'm in the US)

If the line gets longer, I ride to the front and stop. The latter move
is risky because of the possibility of a right turner. I watch for
turn signals, the angle of the front wheels, and body language of the
driver of the vehicle to my left.

larry
--
To reply by e-mail, be polite. Rudeness will get you nowhere.

Larry Schuldt wrote in
:
If the line gets longer, I ride to the front and stop.

When I do this, I don't stop in front of the first car. I'll stop between
the 1st and 2nd car or to the side of the first car. The driver in the 1st
car might be staring at the green light and not see you; or might get ****ed
that you are blocking his path. The 2nd car is already blocked, so won't
mind as much.

On 23 Jul 2003 14:53:55 -0700, Roly Poly Man
wrote:

As a novice biker, I am curious what you are supposed to do when there
is a stop sign with about 5 to 10 vehicles lined up to get their turn.

Most of the time I have seen cyclists fly by all the traffic right
up to the stop sign. Isn't this kind of dangerous? I know it's
not proper to pass traffic on the right, and I have often seen a
car suddenly pull out (which would be into a cyclist) using a
lane, gravel shoulder, etc to make an impromptu right turn.

I try to avoid roads like that. However, when in that situation, I don't
wait in the queue; I carefully ride the right shoulder -- I don't fly.

On the other hand, I can't see a cyclist entering the queue with
vehicles. At least I don't think I've ever seen this done.

This is appropriate sometimes; make a judgement call.

Also, what is the proper way to make a left turn at a typical
busy 4-lane or 6-lane boulevard? Do you keep to the right and
make two crossings?

Again, I try to avoid such roads; but on smaller roads, with a straight
lane and a left-turn-only (or even a right-turn-only) lane, I'll go ahead
and enter the queue between cars, and wait at the traffic light/stop sign
just as if I were driving. I do make every attempt not to hold up traffic
with my slow speed, and I accomplish proper speeds for these situations
pretty well.

Drivers don't seem to be ****ed off about it.

My question: Going straight when there's a right-turn-only lane. This is a
situation where I feel both danger and my slowing powered-vehicle drivers.
Consider:
-that I may have to violate the right-turn-only lane, which is dangerous
in two ways. One, traffic expects me to turn right. Two, oncoming traffic
visibility is often blocked by a vehicle turning left.
-if I don't do that, I have to cross that right-turn-only lane, into the
straight/left-turn lane. This means merging into potentially much faster
vehicular traffic, and then forcing them to wait behind.

Then there's the issue of my terrible clipless pedals that I can never seem
to get into. Now I'm holding up traffic AND embarassing myself. Gotta get
something better than Wellgo R4; maybe something in an SPD, or for ultra-
cool looks, egg beaters or m2Racer Orbs...

--
Rick Onanian

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:20:50 +0000, Rick Onanian wrote:

My question: Going straight when there's a right-turn-only lane. This is a
situation where I feel both danger and my slowing powered-vehicle drivers.
Consider:
-that I may have to violate the right-turn-only lane, which is dangerous
in two ways. One, traffic expects me to turn right. Two, oncoming traffic
visibility is often blocked by a vehicle turning left.
-if I don't do that, I have to cross that right-turn-only lane, into the
straight/left-turn lane. This means merging into potentially much faster
vehicular traffic, and then forcing them to wait behind.

You need to ride in the right-most lane that is consistent with your
direction of travel. If you slow someone down a bit, that is far better
than getting hit by someone turning right because you were going straight
in a right-turn lane.

Use the lanes like a vehicle -- you are riding one.


Then there's the issue of my terrible clipless pedals that I can never
seem to get into. Now I'm holding up traffic AND embarassing myself. Gotta
get something better than Wellgo R4; maybe something in an SPD, or for
ultra- cool looks, egg beaters or m2Racer Orbs...

Side issue. I did this with double toe straps and cleats, on a fixed
gear. Don't let clipping in get in the way of negotiating traffic.


--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:36:12 -0400, David L. Johnson
wrote:
gear. Don't let clipping in get in the way of negotiating traffic.

I haven't a choice; these pedals are terrible, and the shoes slip right off
them if I'm not clipped in or if I'm on the wrong side of the pedal. The
pedals are terrible. Period.

--
Rick Onanian

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:20:50 -0400, Rick Onanian
wrote:

My question: Going straight when there's a right-turn-only lane. This is a
situation where I feel both danger and my slowing powered-vehicle drivers.
Consider:
-that I may have to violate the right-turn-only lane, which is dangerous
in two ways. One, traffic expects me to turn right. Two, oncoming traffic
visibility is often blocked by a vehicle turning left.
-if I don't do that, I have to cross that right-turn-only lane, into the
straight/left-turn lane. This means merging into potentially much faster
vehicular traffic, and then forcing them to wait behind.

On city streets, I move into the rightmost through lane. I don't go
out of my way to be an obstruction, but I have the right to use the
road safely, and slowing down a few drivers by a few seconds doesn't
bother me much.

On a highway with a rideable hard shoulder, I look back to make sure
no one's going to turn into me (if there's any question, I slow and
let them pass), then go straight through on the very left edge of the
turn lane (prepared to stop if anyone entering the road from the right
gets confused). This seems to be, on balance, the best way to do it
when motor traffic speeds are that high, though I can see that there
is a good argument for merging into the right through lane even in
that situation. What I would never do is remain on the shoulder (or
bike lane) to the right of a right-turn-only lane.

--
"Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes--our
ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit
to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be
walking around."
-- G.K. Chesterton

My question: Going straight when there's a right-turn-only lane. This is a
situation where I feel both danger and my slowing powered-vehicle drivers.
Consider:
-that I may have to violate the right-turn-only lane, which is dangerous
in two ways. One, traffic expects me to turn right. Two, oncoming traffic
visibility is often blocked by a vehicle turning left.
-if I don't do that, I have to cross that right-turn-only lane, into the
straight/left-turn lane. This means merging into potentially much faster
vehicular traffic, and then forcing them to wait behind.

Signal your intent to merge left, shoulder check, and then merge. Try
to do this enough ahead of time that there will be a gap that you can
enter. If the lanes are of sufficient width, you should be able to
ride at the right hand side of the straight lane allowing faster
traffic to pass within the lane. You could also (although not
technically correct) ride along the left-hand side of the right turn
lane. That way it is obvious that you are not turning right, you will
not have conflict with the cars in the straight lane, and cars turning
right should have sufficient room to do so without interfering with
you.

Tanya

In article ,
says...
As a novice biker, I am curious what you are supposed to do when there
is a stop sign with about 5 to 10 vehicles lined up to get their turn.

Most of the time I have seen cyclists fly by all the traffic right
up to the stop sign. Isn't this kind of dangerous? I know it's
not proper to pass traffic on the right, and I have often seen a
car suddenly pull out (which would be into a cyclist) using a
lane, gravel shoulder, etc to make an impromptu right turn.

On the other hand, I can't see a cyclist entering the queue with
vehicles. At least I don't think I've ever seen this done.

You've never seen me, then; that's how I do it. I was almost right-
hooked (which is the Cyclist's term for what you described above) a
couple of months ago, and since then, I always take the lane at stop
light or stop sign. I can accelerate as fast as the car in front of me
and stay fast enough through the intersection that I don't delay the car
behind me and get him ****ed at me.


Also, what is the proper way to make a left turn at a typical
busy 4-lane or 6-lane boulevard? Do you keep to the right and
make two crossings?

Traffic and speeds permitting, I move over into the left lane just as a
car would. If the traffic is too heavy or going too fast for that to
feel safe, then I pretend I'm a pedestrian and make two crossings in the
cross-walks, making sure to go at pedestrian speed so as not to throw
off a car which might be turning across the cross-walks. It only takes
an extra minute or so usually, so doesn't cost me much.

YMMV!

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

"Roly Poly Man" wrote in message
om...
On the other hand, I can't see a cyclist entering the queue with
vehicles. At least I don't think I've ever seen this done.

I always get into the queue at a stop sign. It's first come, first served.
If there is a right-turn-only lane, it's especially important to get into
the correct lane so that traffic is sorted properly based on destination. I
want right-turning drivers to pass to my right if I am not going that way.
Destination positioning is more important than anything else at
intersections.

Also, what is the proper way to make a left turn at a typical
busy 4-lane or 6-lane boulevard? Do you keep to the right and
make two crossings?

If I can find a good traffic gap, I merge all the way to the left (near the
center of the road) in preparation to get into the left turn lane. If I
don't feel comfortable doing this, I go straight and get off the bike to
cross the street as a pedestrian, or at least to dismount to replace the
bike in the correct lane to proceed from the cross street.

Steve Goodridge
http://humantransport.org/bicycledriving/