A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Hot rodding e-bikes



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old June 15th 19, 01:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:01:53 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 04:57:26 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:35:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Seems it's easy to modify an e-bike to travel up to about 45 kph.

http://cphpost.dk/news/souped-up-ele...tial-accident-

waiting-to-happen-authority-says.html

Unskilled newbies blasting through traffic at 30 mph? Sure! What could
go wrong?


Given the amount of plastic in modern cars, it might redress the
bicyclist/motorist injury ratios.

A 250 watt motor is max legal here,but its possible to buy a 1,000 watt
overseas and ship it in. All it requires is wheel buldng skills and deep
pockets for the battery. OTOH, we can all hope self immolation is a
feature of such activities.


Professional cyclist can develop peak power of about 1200 watts in a
sprint and can reach a speed of about 66 mph. Perhaps just an exercise
program is cheaper than a souped-up e-bike :-)


Work, sweat, you jest.
The buyers would be people who want a "motor cycle" but are banned
because they don't have a riders license. usually for past misdemeanors.
At one stage, ICE add ons for bicycles were popular, until they were out
lawed. E-bikes only now.



Ads
  #22  
Old June 17th 19, 06:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 12:51:35 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 12:39:09 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2019 3:07 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 11:35:23 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Seems it's easy to modify an e-bike to travel up to about 45 kph.

http://cphpost.dk/news/souped-up-ele...rity-says.html

Unskilled newbies blasting through traffic at 30 mph? Sure! What could
go wrong?

--
- Frank Krygowski

According to Giant's e-bike website.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/globa...-bike-go/21531

"In Europe, an E-bike can have a maximum power of 250 watts, assisting the E-Bike to a maximum speed of 25 km/h (15.6 mph). In the U.S., the rules are different. There, E-bike motors can have a maximum of 500 watts and assist up to 20 mph (32km/h).
There are also E-bikes that support up to 45km/h (28 mph). These are referred to as pedelecs."

So your comment about dangerous 45 kph (28 mph) electric bicycles are officially "pedelecs". This is from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec

"Many jurisdictions classify pedelecs as bicycles as opposed to mopeds or motorcycles. More powerful e-bikes, such as the S-Pedelecs and power-on-demand e-bikes (those whose motors can provide assistance regardless of whether the rider is pedalling or not) are often classified as mopeds or even motorcycles with the rider thus subject to the regulations of such motor vehicles, e.g. having a license and a vehicle registration, wearing a helmet etc."

So...there seems to be differences in what is considered an e-bike and a pedelec and exactly how fast they can go and whether they are officially mopeds or bicycles depending on which state/country you live in. As for people "breaking the law and souping up there e-bike to an illegal speed", I've only been around for half a century, but I am fairly certain there have been human beings breaking the law ever since the first law was enacted thousands upon thousands of years ago. I'm somewhat shocked you are just realizing this simple fact Frank.


A) Who are you quoting with that "breaking the law" quote? It wasn't me..

B) What gave you the idea I just now realized there are lawbreakers?
What an odd statement!

C) You didn't address my point. Do you see anything likely to go wrong
with hot-rodding an e-bike?


Hot-rodded eBikes are already a thing. The future is now. The practical effect is sharing a bike lane with a silent, lightweight motorcycle -- usually driven by an incompetent.

-- Jay Beattie.


Tesla builds a very efficient electric motor for their Type 3 cars. If you copied their technique for an e-bike it could add at least 50% to the performance.

We presently have people on electric skateboards riding at 10 mph between San Francisco traffic and those damn electric scooters are everywhere.
  #23  
Old June 17th 19, 06:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:54:52 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/13/2019 6:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:15:13 PM UTC-4, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 9:13:46 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I
think it was John Allen (author of the excellent Street Smarts booklet)
who pointed out that until now, there's been at least a rough
correlation between a rider's average speed and his skill on the bike..
E-bikes destroy that correlation. "Chipped" ones will be worse.

I'd suggest these are Darwin Awards candidates, except that such people careening on a e-bike could kill innocent bystanders as well.


Or cause innocent bicyclists to crash trying to avoid those darn e-bikes. I've seen that happen a number of times on rail-trails around here which is another reason I avoid those rail-trails a lot of times. Some e-bike users seem to think that any off road path or trail is there for them to speed along at the top speed of their e-bike. They seem to EVER consider that maybe someone else is using the trail from the opposite direction.


Speed is weirdly addictive when you've got a motor.

I remember an incident back in the 1970s. I had been riding my
motorcycle and lost something I had strapped to the bike. (I can't now
recall what it was.)

Anyway, I took the motorcycle back out and rode the same streets and
country roads at low speed, maybe 29 - 25 mph, to look for the lost
item. And I remember thinking "This is really pleasant." At low speed,
there was very little noise from wind or from the engine. I had much
more time to look all around and appreciate my surroundings. It felt
like there was less risk of crashing. It was quite relaxing.

But ever since, with rare exceptions, when riding a motorcycle I've
chosen the highest speeds the law would allow.

--
- Frank Krygowski


I watch something cars doing that you do one bikes for a reason but cars really have no reason - drafting. I watch cars drive 100 mph to catch the group in front of them that is blocking the entire freeway. I even see them doing this in cities when you can SEE a red light up the road that will force you to stop. If they did a more moderate speed they could drive right through these lights all green for them. Instead it is STOP-GO LIKE HELL-STOP et al.

I have a real problem drafting anymore. I have to watch the road and the horizon since I don't have any balance. That means that I often cannot watch the person I'm drafting close enough and they will slow down and I end up half-wheeling them. So now I either ride alone of ride pretty far off the back.
  #24  
Old June 17th 19, 06:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:54:52 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/13/2019 6:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:15:13 PM UTC-4, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 9:13:46 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I
think it was John Allen (author of the excellent Street Smarts booklet)
who pointed out that until now, there's been at least a rough
correlation between a rider's average speed and his skill on the bike..
E-bikes destroy that correlation. "Chipped" ones will be worse.

I'd suggest these are Darwin Awards candidates, except that such people careening on a e-bike could kill innocent bystanders as well.


Or cause innocent bicyclists to crash trying to avoid those darn e-bikes. I've seen that happen a number of times on rail-trails around here which is another reason I avoid those rail-trails a lot of times. Some e-bike users seem to think that any off road path or trail is there for them to speed along at the top speed of their e-bike. They seem to EVER consider that maybe someone else is using the trail from the opposite direction.


Speed is weirdly addictive when you've got a motor.

I remember an incident back in the 1970s. I had been riding my
motorcycle and lost something I had strapped to the bike. (I can't now
recall what it was.)

Anyway, I took the motorcycle back out and rode the same streets and
country roads at low speed, maybe 29 - 25 mph, to look for the lost
item. And I remember thinking "This is really pleasant." At low speed,
there was very little noise from wind or from the engine. I had much
more time to look all around and appreciate my surroundings. It felt
like there was less risk of crashing. It was quite relaxing.

But ever since, with rare exceptions, when riding a motorcycle I've
chosen the highest speeds the law would allow.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Because I raced motorcycles I always had had more speed than I ever wanted on the tracks. Riding on the streets I would go slow or at most keep level with traffic.
  #25  
Old June 18th 19, 04:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On 6/17/2019 1:10 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:54:52 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/13/2019 6:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:15:13 PM UTC-4, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 9:13:46 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I
think it was John Allen (author of the excellent Street Smarts booklet)
who pointed out that until now, there's been at least a rough
correlation between a rider's average speed and his skill on the bike.
E-bikes destroy that correlation. "Chipped" ones will be worse.

I'd suggest these are Darwin Awards candidates, except that such people careening on a e-bike could kill innocent bystanders as well.

Or cause innocent bicyclists to crash trying to avoid those darn e-bikes. I've seen that happen a number of times on rail-trails around here which is another reason I avoid those rail-trails a lot of times. Some e-bike users seem to think that any off road path or trail is there for them to speed along at the top speed of their e-bike. They seem to EVER consider that maybe someone else is using the trail from the opposite direction.


Speed is weirdly addictive when you've got a motor.

I remember an incident back in the 1970s. I had been riding my
motorcycle and lost something I had strapped to the bike. (I can't now
recall what it was.)

Anyway, I took the motorcycle back out and rode the same streets and
country roads at low speed, maybe 29 - 25 mph, to look for the lost
item. And I remember thinking "This is really pleasant." At low speed,
there was very little noise from wind or from the engine. I had much
more time to look all around and appreciate my surroundings. It felt
like there was less risk of crashing. It was quite relaxing.

But ever since, with rare exceptions, when riding a motorcycle I've
chosen the highest speeds the law would allow.

--
- Frank Krygowski


I watch something cars doing that you do one bikes for a reason but cars really have no reason - drafting. I watch cars drive 100 mph to catch the group in front of them that is blocking the entire freeway. I even see them doing this in cities when you can SEE a red light up the road that will force you to stop. If they did a more moderate speed they could drive right through these lights all green for them. Instead it is STOP-GO LIKE HELL-STOP et al.

I have a real problem drafting anymore. I have to watch the road and the horizon since I don't have any balance. That means that I often cannot watch the person I'm drafting close enough and they will slow down and I end up half-wheeling them. So now I either ride alone of ride pretty far off the back.


While I don't get to do it very often, I still enjoy drafting. On a club
ride last week, a strong rider and I enjoyed sailing in the last few
miles at well over 20 mph. I was enjoying it because my front wheel was
about six inches behind his back wheel.

For a long time, I was the draftee in that situation. When my wife and I
are on the tandem, that's still sometimes the case. But that day I was
the drafter, barely hanging on - but having a great time.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #26  
Old June 18th 19, 05:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:25:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/17/2019 1:10 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:54:52 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/13/2019 6:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:15:13 PM UTC-4, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 9:13:46 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I
think it was John Allen (author of the excellent Street Smarts booklet)
who pointed out that until now, there's been at least a rough
correlation between a rider's average speed and his skill on the bike.
E-bikes destroy that correlation. "Chipped" ones will be worse.

I'd suggest these are Darwin Awards candidates, except that such people careening on a e-bike could kill innocent bystanders as well.

Or cause innocent bicyclists to crash trying to avoid those darn e-bikes. I've seen that happen a number of times on rail-trails around here which is another reason I avoid those rail-trails a lot of times. Some e-bike users seem to think that any off road path or trail is there for them to speed along at the top speed of their e-bike. They seem to EVER consider that maybe someone else is using the trail from the opposite direction.

Speed is weirdly addictive when you've got a motor.

I remember an incident back in the 1970s. I had been riding my
motorcycle and lost something I had strapped to the bike. (I can't now
recall what it was.)

Anyway, I took the motorcycle back out and rode the same streets and
country roads at low speed, maybe 29 - 25 mph, to look for the lost
item. And I remember thinking "This is really pleasant." At low speed,
there was very little noise from wind or from the engine. I had much
more time to look all around and appreciate my surroundings. It felt
like there was less risk of crashing. It was quite relaxing.

But ever since, with rare exceptions, when riding a motorcycle I've
chosen the highest speeds the law would allow.

--
- Frank Krygowski


I watch something cars doing that you do one bikes for a reason but cars really have no reason - drafting. I watch cars drive 100 mph to catch the group in front of them that is blocking the entire freeway. I even see them doing this in cities when you can SEE a red light up the road that will force you to stop. If they did a more moderate speed they could drive right through these lights all green for them. Instead it is STOP-GO LIKE HELL-STOP et al.

I have a real problem drafting anymore. I have to watch the road and the horizon since I don't have any balance. That means that I often cannot watch the person I'm drafting close enough and they will slow down and I end up half-wheeling them. So now I either ride alone of ride pretty far off the back.


While I don't get to do it very often, I still enjoy drafting. On a club
ride last week, a strong rider and I enjoyed sailing in the last few
miles at well over 20 mph. I was enjoying it because my front wheel was
about six inches behind his back wheel.

For a long time, I was the draftee in that situation. When my wife and I
are on the tandem, that's still sometimes the case. But that day I was
the drafter, barely hanging on - but having a great time.


I once drafted a small motorcycle with a sidecar for about 25 kilos,
coming back from a Sunday ride, at a steady 35 kph. When we got to
where I turned off the highway to my little village I almost didn't
stop as I was having such a good time :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #27  
Old June 18th 19, 03:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 9:37:31 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:25:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/17/2019 1:10 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:54:52 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/13/2019 6:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:15:13 PM UTC-4, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 9:13:46 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I
think it was John Allen (author of the excellent Street Smarts booklet)
who pointed out that until now, there's been at least a rough
correlation between a rider's average speed and his skill on the bike.
E-bikes destroy that correlation. "Chipped" ones will be worse.

I'd suggest these are Darwin Awards candidates, except that such people careening on a e-bike could kill innocent bystanders as well.

Or cause innocent bicyclists to crash trying to avoid those darn e-bikes. I've seen that happen a number of times on rail-trails around here which is another reason I avoid those rail-trails a lot of times. Some e-bike users seem to think that any off road path or trail is there for them to speed along at the top speed of their e-bike. They seem to EVER consider that maybe someone else is using the trail from the opposite direction.

Speed is weirdly addictive when you've got a motor.

I remember an incident back in the 1970s. I had been riding my
motorcycle and lost something I had strapped to the bike. (I can't now
recall what it was.)

Anyway, I took the motorcycle back out and rode the same streets and
country roads at low speed, maybe 29 - 25 mph, to look for the lost
item. And I remember thinking "This is really pleasant." At low speed,
there was very little noise from wind or from the engine. I had much
more time to look all around and appreciate my surroundings. It felt
like there was less risk of crashing. It was quite relaxing.

But ever since, with rare exceptions, when riding a motorcycle I've
chosen the highest speeds the law would allow.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I watch something cars doing that you do one bikes for a reason but cars really have no reason - drafting. I watch cars drive 100 mph to catch the group in front of them that is blocking the entire freeway. I even see them doing this in cities when you can SEE a red light up the road that will force you to stop. If they did a more moderate speed they could drive right through these lights all green for them. Instead it is STOP-GO LIKE HELL-STOP et al.

I have a real problem drafting anymore. I have to watch the road and the horizon since I don't have any balance. That means that I often cannot watch the person I'm drafting close enough and they will slow down and I end up half-wheeling them. So now I either ride alone of ride pretty far off the back.


While I don't get to do it very often, I still enjoy drafting. On a club
ride last week, a strong rider and I enjoyed sailing in the last few
miles at well over 20 mph. I was enjoying it because my front wheel was
about six inches behind his back wheel.

For a long time, I was the draftee in that situation. When my wife and I
are on the tandem, that's still sometimes the case. But that day I was
the drafter, barely hanging on - but having a great time.


I once drafted a small motorcycle with a sidecar for about 25 kilos,
coming back from a Sunday ride, at a steady 35 kph. When we got to
where I turned off the highway to my little village I almost didn't
stop as I was having such a good time :-)


Motor-pacing is part of most training programs. I rode with some juniors, and the father of one built a motor-pacing motorcycle with a little roller wheel on the back. It was pretty slick. His son, Don Myhra, was later a pro and more recently a world champ masters CX rider. https://www.cxmagazine.com/don-myrah...ment-interview Gads. The last time I saw him, he was a kid. Makes a guy feel old.

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following too closely." Many years ago, a bunch of us got busted for drafting a team car around a local island. No tickets. Just warnings from the sheriff. Twice. They don't seem to mind if you draft other cyclists which technically is also following too closely.

-- Jay Beattie.


  #28  
Old June 18th 19, 05:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Zen Cycle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 194
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."


Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".

  #29  
Old June 18th 19, 05:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On 6/18/2019 12:33 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."


Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".


I knew one local rider who got a "following too closely" ticket. The
judge and his staff laughed about it, and the judge threw it out.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old June 18th 19, 06:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Hot rodding e-bikes

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:53:07 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 12:33 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 10:21:25 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Motor pacing on a bike is illegal on the road since it is "following
too closely."


Not in massachusetts. The 'following too closely' statute applies exclusively to motorized vehicles here. I've been lectured by more than a few cops from various towns here over the (many) years, but that's it. One said "I'd ticket you if I could".


I knew one local rider who got a "following too closely" ticket. The
judge and his staff laughed about it, and the judge threw it out.



Following a car too closely is probably an offense here because of our case law and the statute making the rules of the road that apply to "motor vehicles" equally applicable to bicycles with exceptions:


ORS 814.400

(1) Every person riding a bicycle upon a public way is subject to the provisions applicable to and has the same rights and duties as the driver of any other vehicle concerning operating on highways, vehicle equipment and abandoned vehicles, except:

(a) Those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.

(b) When otherwise specifically provided under the vehicle code.

(2) Subject to the provisions of subsection (1) of this section:

(a) A bicycle is a vehicle for purposes of the vehicle code; and

(b) When the term “vehicle” is used the term shall be deemed to be applicable to bicycles.

(3) The provisions of the vehicle code relating to the operation of bicycles do not relieve a bicyclist or motorist from the duty to exercise due care..


The fact that a rule of the road expressly references "motor vehicles" is not enough to exempt bicycles -- according to our CA.

The "following too closely" statute is also pretty vague, leaving open the question of what is "reasonably prudent." With two consenting cyclists, a few inches may be reasonably prudent.

Note that the statute also differentiates between "motor vehicle" and vehicle, making it clear that following a bicycle in a car too closely is also an offense.


ORS 811.485

(1) A person commits the offense of following too closely if the person does any of the following:

(a) Drives a motor vehicle so as to follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard for the speed of the vehicles and the traffic upon, and condition of, the highway.

* * * * *

-- Jay Beattie.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
do police stations still sell recovered bikes? 2nd hand bikes Maurice Wibblington UK 11 September 19th 06 09:23 AM
If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes Maggie General 63 October 11th 05 09:56 PM
Dreadful bikes, awful bikes, triage and maintenance Simon Brooke UK 14 August 10th 05 04:14 PM
A question - Girls' bikes and boys' bikes - Why the difference? ShoeFly General 7 April 21st 04 01:34 PM
Cheap Bikes vs expensive bikes - what are the real differences? The Real Slim Shady UK 8 August 13th 03 08:30 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.