New Tactical Cycling Maneuver

AMuzi writes:

On 9/24/2020 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.


Meanwhile, just a few days ago and about three miles away, some dude
barged into a house in a very quiet neighborhood at 2 AM and blasted
away, shooting four adults and one four-year-old boy. The boy died in
his mother's arms.

Oddly, no "good guy with a gun" prevented the murder.

I suggest that the question is "Why". I did read that the police,
"stressed that it was not a random act of violence but rather a
targeted attack."

And I later read that "A suspect connected to a shooting that killed a
4-year-old Ohio boy and wounded four adults, including the boy's
mother, was arrested Monday night, authorities told Fox News.
and
Kimonie Bryant, 24, surrendered to the U.S. Marshals Service around 8
p.m., Struthers police Chief Tim Roddy said.


I do find it odd that one seldom hears calls for edged weapons control
or ban:

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/2020092...-hebdo-offices


Follow the UK news and you'll see lots of calls for knife control.

Here's a story on the CoE calling for a ban on pointy assault knives:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...rn-world-says/

I gather that carrying a folding knife with a locking blade is
considered a serious offense in Blighty, sort of like a "gravity knife"
in NYC:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/n...knife-law.html

Seems that particular misbegotten law has been repealed, sometimes there
is progress.

Rest assured that if knives are banned the powers that be will move on
to rocks and sharp sticks.

On 9/25/2020 3:28 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 9:54:58 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/24/2020 11:00 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 24/09/2020 15.59, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/a-seat...s-head-during/

Why are the cops riding bikes at night with no lights? Is that not
illegal?
Why are you unaware that police are not subject to traffic regulations? Are you supposing that the police are going to pursue someone while staying within the speed limit?

Technically they can run stop signs/stop lights and blow
speed limits, go wrong-way and so on only when the red
lights are rolling.

(or blue lights or whatever in your area)

Maybe in your state Andrew but not in most. It is pretty difficult to sneak up on criminals when your lights and siren are on.


California Statues section 21055:

https://law.justia.com/codes/califor...050-21070.html

When sneaking up on people a police car has to obey the
other traffic statutes. Mr Beattie, in his capacity as an
actual California ambulance operator, told you this already.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, 25 September 2020 16:28:46 UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 11:00:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2020 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other
prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort
executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at
all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.

I think Andrew's implication is that if (say) America
introduces universal background checks and restricts the
purchase of rapid fire assault-style weapons, that police
will begin executing civilians on the streets.

IOW, the implausible connection to gun control was not mine.

You mistake my position. The Second was clearly and
tersely written with a definitive and final period after
'shall not be infringed' by men whose memory of Lexington
was fresh.

Automatic weapons have been severely restricted since 1934.
One might argue that the National Firearms Act is an
unconstitutional abridgement but the courts are not
interested in that argument. So here we are, some 80+ years
later in a nation where firearm ownership is widespread,
voluminous and growing. Yesterday, virtually all of them
passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun...s-by-state/13/

which comes to just under 5 million firearms in Ohio.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In the USA firearms kill about 100 people per day. Does that meet your "virtually all of them passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident." criteria? I guess the number of people dying by firearms is only one tenth the number dying by Covid-19 each day. So its irrelevant. Trump and the Republicans think Covid-19 is a hoax and is going to go away very soon, so one tenth as many dying by firearms each day is surely immaterial.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...ty/firearm.htm
Sum of DEATHS
YEAR Total
2014 33,508
2015 36,132
2016 38,551
2017 39,673
2018 39,615
Total 187,479

Funny thing is about 3000 fewer people died in the USA from vehicle accidents each year. I'd have guessed vehicle deaths were much higher than firearm deaths. But NO. Americans love to shoot people to death! Even more than they like to run them over. Of course keep in mind all these deaths by guns and cars are one tenth as many as the Covid-19 is killing each day.

Any two years on that list equals more firearm deaths than the Vietnam Conflict had in total.

Cheers

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 9/25/2020 4:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 9:25:39 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 12:00 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 24/09/2020 15.59, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/a-seat...s-head-during/

Why are the cops riding bikes at night with no lights? Is that not
illegal?
Why are you unaware that police are not subject to traffic
regulations? Are you supposing that the police are going to pursue
someone while staying within the speed limit?
I can see good reasons police are allowed to exceed the speed limit in a
pursuit situation. That doesn't justify cops violating any law they like
any time they like.

I've witnessed cops in patrol cars violating red lights apparently at
will - no speeding involved, no warning lights, no indication it was any
official business.

I'm pretty sympathetic to cops, but they shouldn't be using their
position to break the law for their own convenience.

This is why when you were young enough not to have bones broken
someone should have slapped the holy **** out of you.

Gosh, Tom, you're trying to sound so manly and fearsome! But I wonder
if anyone here is impressed? I'm certainly not.

Exactly how did you know that a cop wasn't responding to something?

The two incidents I remember most clearly were at the same traffic
light, one that I'll admit tries my patience. It's badly timed,
unnecessarily long and with almost never any cross traffic.

In both cases, the cop came to a stop, then proceeded - one pretty
quickly, the other after maybe ten or fifteen seconds. In both cases,
there was absolutely no hurry. They motored on at a relaxed pace, and
of course their patrol cars were not lit up nor running sirens.

Years ago, in Texas, I was driving along when I was passed by a cop car.
Ahead of me there was a green traffic light, and a pickup truck with a
left turn signal on. Literally one or two seconds before hitting the
intersection, the cop turned the flashers on (no siren), and tried
passing the pickup on the left. Bang, cop ran into the left front
fender of the pickup.

I did not stop to volunteer my services as a witness, for which I still
feel guilty.

On 9/25/2020 3:28 PM, wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 11:00:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2020 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other
prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort
executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at
all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.

I think Andrew's implication is that if (say) America
introduces universal background checks and restricts the
purchase of rapid fire assault-style weapons, that police
will begin executing civilians on the streets.

IOW, the implausible connection to gun control was not mine.

You mistake my position. The Second was clearly and
tersely written with a definitive and final period after
'shall not be infringed' by men whose memory of Lexington
was fresh.

Automatic weapons have been severely restricted since 1934.
One might argue that the National Firearms Act is an
unconstitutional abridgement but the courts are not
interested in that argument. So here we are, some 80+ years
later in a nation where firearm ownership is widespread,
voluminous and growing. Yesterday, virtually all of them
passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun...s-by-state/13/

which comes to just under 5 million firearms in Ohio.


In the USA firearms kill about 100 people per day. Does that meet your "virtually all of them passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident." criteria? I guess the number of people dying by firearms is only one tenth the number dying by Covid-19 each day. So its irrelevant. Trump and the Republicans think Covid-19 is a hoax and is going to go away very soon, so one tenth as many dying by firearms each day is surely immaterial.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...ty/firearm.htm
Sum of DEATHS
YEAR Total
2014 33,508
2015 36,132
2016 38,551
2017 39,673
2018 39,615
Total 187,479

Funny thing is about 3000 fewer people died in the USA from vehicle accidents each year. I'd have guessed vehicle deaths were much higher than firearm deaths. But NO. Americans love to shoot people to death! Even more than they like to run them over. Of course keep in mind all these deaths by guns and cars are one tenth as many as the Covid-19 is killing each day.


Yes, a roughly similar range for firearm and automobile
deaths. Both include suicides and accidents along with
homicides. Both together do not even approach heart disease.

Back to Frank's comment, there are less than a half million
automatic weapons, vintage and modern, in the whole country:

https://law.justia.com/codes/califor...050-21070.html

One would be hard-pressed to find more than a handful per
year used in any crime.

Compare to something like 400 million firearms in the USA of
A (more than one per human) with about 2/3 of households
armed. Yes, people do misuse and abuse firearms just like
every other thing, but the numbers can help to put this in
perspective.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/25/2020 3:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/24/2020 5:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 12:39:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 12:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:37 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 24/09/2020 15.59, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/a-seat...s-head-during/



Why are the cops riding bikes at night with no lights? Is
that not illegal?



Probably. Ring 911 to ask for more police?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lling-911.html

Similar to that incident: One friend of mine lives on a lot of wooded
rural acreage. He has "No Hunting" signs posted.

He got wind of a hunter on his property and walked out to confront the
guy. As he told me, the hunter's attitude was threatening. He pointed
his gun at my friend and asked "What are you going to do about it?"

My friend faced him down, saying something like "You're not going to
shoot me." But I think that takes extraordinary courage. I'd certainly
have called the cops.

And about the "Defund" movement: ISTM that many, if not most, of those
saying that are not saying police forces should be abolished, or that
criminals should be given free rein (although I suppose there are
radical libertarians). They are instead proposing that other agencies
handle encounters that don't require an armed man in uniform.

As to radical libertarians: I suppose people who frequently say "laws
don't work, legalize everything" must be very much in favor of
abolishing police forces. I'm not one of those people.

Are there "other agencies". I believe that the Military is
specifically forbidden to act as police in U.S. territories.

Perhaps a new agency could be formed, "The Agency of Armed Force",
(TAOAF). But would that be a State or Federal force?

Not all that simple. You're right about the formal armed
forces but the prior administration set up armed security
branches in every Department:

This from 2012:
https://www.theblaze.com/contributio...h-armed-agents

and 2016:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/prett...s-hank-berrien

those are from a quick web search. It's a perplexing trend
to those who wonder why the Education Department needs an
assault team.

To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

Every one of these armed agents is required to qualify at a range once a year. And that qualification means hitting a 50 foot target with a hand held gun in rapid fire situations. So they are pretty damned good with a handgun. I was never much one with a handgun other than an automatic, but with a rifle you should have seen me there with a Federal Agent. It was one of those ranges where at 100 feet to 100 yards, targets would pop out and you had to make sure you only hit qualified targets Someone with a weapon that wasn't a uniformed cop) and not the picture of the little old lady or the man with a walker. I hit bullseye on 100% of those and the Federal Agent gave up after he couldn't even hit the long targets before a new one appeared. That was 3 or 4 years ago.


With you broad wisdom and experience in the area, please
enlighten me. Why does the Education Department need
assault squads? Extra points for the Weather Service.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/25/2020 6:54 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/25/2020 12:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2020 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other
prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort
executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at
all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.

I think Andrew's implication is that if (say) America
introduces universal background checks and restricts the
purchase of rapid fire assault-style weapons, that police
will begin executing civilians on the streets.

IOW, the implausible connection to gun control was not mine.


You mistake my position.

Perhaps, then, you should explain more clearly why you
linked a photo of a Nazi officer murdering captives.

The Second was clearly and tersely written with a
definitive and final period after 'shall not be infringed'
by men whose memory of Lexington was fresh.

I think it's obvious that the 2nd amendment has never been
interpreted as complete and total license to own any and all
firearms - at least, not by anyone with at least two
functioning brain cells. The current radical interpretation
is rather new and is at odds with many decades of
interpretation and practice. It's even at odds with the
NRA's historic positions. It's a product of a campaign to
line the pockets of LaPierre and others like him.

Automatic weapons have been severely restricted since
1934. One might argue that the National Firearms Act is an
unconstitutional abridgement but the courts are not
interested in that argument.

Please. The courts saw through that argument long ago. They
are not interested for very sound reasons.

So here we are, some 80+ years later in a nation where
firearm ownership is widespread, voluminous and growing.
Yesterday, virtually all of them passed another day nicely
oiled and cased without incident.

My guess is the majority of guns in the U.S. pass multiple
years while stored away. In other words, they are not
necessary, except to comfort certain paranoid individuals.

In particular, it's essentially never necessary to have a
gun capable of firing more than about five rounds in one
minute. Given that rapid fire guns have the proven detriment
of facilitating horrible illegal behavior, the balance of
benefits vs. detriments is heavily against them.

(BTW, only a tiny fraction of red light running causes
fatalities. That's not justification for allowing red light
running.)


Image is not a National Socialist but rather NKVD
(International Socialist) for those who see any difference
whatsoever among the sorry lot of socialists all together.

Five rounds per minute? WTF?
My .38 Police Special does all five in about 3 to 4 seconds
when actually concentrating on a target. Guys who are good
at that sort of thing use 8-shot revolvers and the record is
one second.

I've never been to a two-way range, and I hope never to
experience that, but many things can transpire in a very
long full sixty second minute. Your off-the-top-of-the-head
'standard' is idiotic.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/25/2020 7:30 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 25 September 2020 16:28:46 UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 11:00:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2020 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other
prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort
executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at
all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.

I think Andrew's implication is that if (say) America
introduces universal background checks and restricts the
purchase of rapid fire assault-style weapons, that police
will begin executing civilians on the streets.

IOW, the implausible connection to gun control was not mine.

You mistake my position. The Second was clearly and
tersely written with a definitive and final period after
'shall not be infringed' by men whose memory of Lexington
was fresh.

Automatic weapons have been severely restricted since 1934.
One might argue that the National Firearms Act is an
unconstitutional abridgement but the courts are not
interested in that argument. So here we are, some 80+ years
later in a nation where firearm ownership is widespread,
voluminous and growing. Yesterday, virtually all of them
passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun...s-by-state/13/

which comes to just under 5 million firearms in Ohio.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In the USA firearms kill about 100 people per day. Does that meet your "virtually all of them passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident." criteria? I guess the number of people dying by firearms is only one tenth the number dying by Covid-19 each day. So its irrelevant. Trump and the Republicans think Covid-19 is a hoax and is going to go away very soon, so one tenth as many dying by firearms each day is surely immaterial.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...ty/firearm.htm
Sum of DEATHS
YEAR Total
2014 33,508
2015 36,132
2016 38,551
2017 39,673
2018 39,615
Total 187,479

Funny thing is about 3000 fewer people died in the USA from vehicle accidents each year. I'd have guessed vehicle deaths were much higher than firearm deaths. But NO. Americans love to shoot people to death! Even more than they like to run them over. Of course keep in mind all these deaths by guns and cars are one tenth as many as the Covid-19 is killing each day.

Any two years on that list equals more firearm deaths than the Vietnam Conflict had in total.


sorta kinda but not really.

Hint: Subtract the suicide and negligent discharges from
firearms deaths.

Also the horrific 58,000 number of US deaths supporting ARVN
includes accident disease and misadventure above the 47,400
combat deaths. Bad enough, but accuracy ought to matter.

One more thing about death comparisons- since auto deaths
include both vehicles you might pause to note 1,100,000 NVA
and VC, and that after the earlier French Indochina bloodbath.

ref: http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 20:17:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/25/2020 7:11 PM, John B. wrote:

Timothy McVeigh carried out the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing that
killed 168 people and injured more than 680 others and is considered
the deadliest act of terrorism in the United States prior to the
September 11 attacks and remains the deadliest act of domestic
terrorism in the history of the U.S., using fertilizer and diesel
fuel.

In contrast the 2017 Las Vegas shooting killed 60 and wounded 411.

Interesting point about the Oklahoma City bombing. Yes, 168 dead is a
lot for one criminal act.

But in five days, you'd exceed that with U.S. gun homicides. Is that
really supposed to make those OK?

So? Using 2013 (as I have details for that year) there were 33,169
firearm deaths, including some 21,175 suicides,During the same period
there were 32,893 highway deaths.

So apparently you are getting excepted about some 278 deaths, or at
least I've never heard you lament highway deaths so I assume that you
accept them, And, during 2013 there were 749 bicycle deaths.

So essentially you are getting all excepted about firearm deaths which
exceeded highway deaths, a subject that you seem to ignore, by a 278
and totally ignore the 746, nearly 3 times, bicycle deaths during the
same period.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 20:25:37 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

AMuzi writes:

On 9/24/2020 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.


Meanwhile, just a few days ago and about three miles away, some dude
barged into a house in a very quiet neighborhood at 2 AM and blasted
away, shooting four adults and one four-year-old boy. The boy died in
his mother's arms.

Oddly, no "good guy with a gun" prevented the murder.

I suggest that the question is "Why". I did read that the police,
"stressed that it was not a random act of violence but rather a
targeted attack."

And I later read that "A suspect connected to a shooting that killed a
4-year-old Ohio boy and wounded four adults, including the boy's
mother, was arrested Monday night, authorities told Fox News.
and
Kimonie Bryant, 24, surrendered to the U.S. Marshals Service around 8
p.m., Struthers police Chief Tim Roddy said.


I do find it odd that one seldom hears calls for edged weapons control
or ban:

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/2020092...-hebdo-offices


Follow the UK news and you'll see lots of calls for knife control.

Here's a story on the CoE calling for a ban on pointy assault knives:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...rn-world-says/

I gather that carrying a folding knife with a locking blade is
considered a serious offense in Blighty, sort of like a "gravity knife"
in NYC:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/n...knife-law.html

Seems that particular misbegotten law has been repealed, sometimes there
is progress.

Rest assured that if knives are banned the powers that be will move on
to rocks and sharp sticks.

Yes, I've read about the"knife laws" in G.B. and I seem to remember
reading about some bloke that bought a rather large kitchen knife and
carried it in a shopping bad, perfectly legally, and used it to commit
murder.

But then, there was a time when a gentleman carried a "stick" which
might well be confused with a club in some instances - see
https://tinyurl.com/yyqq4lz8
--
Cheers,

John B.