|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#491
|
|||
|
|||
Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
"Mark Hickey" wrote in message ... (Jonesy) wrote: Mark Hickey wrote in message . .. But it's interesting you don't find the biggest air pollution reduction act in over a decade significant. Go figure. I suppose trying to reverse Clinton's declaration of National Monument status for Escalante (mining interests want coal there) and overturning national forest roadless rules somehow count as environmentalism? Go figure. You should come on out to Arizona to find out how much we all like liberal northeast environmentalists out here, and what their "environMENTAL" actions have done to HUGE areas of the forest (now resembling the surface of the moon). With a few forest roads, some intelligent thinning of trees we wouldn't lose entire ecosystems every summer. I don't know what environMENTALists are but environmentalists would have let the fires burn long before the forests got to be tinderboxes and let nature run it's course. Unfortunately there were too many influential capitalists worried about protecting their stolen property to let that happen. Greg |
Ads |
#492
|
|||
|
|||
Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
"Mark Hickey" wrote:
See, all that research on ad hominem attacks has done you some good. You're getting better at them. It's great to see us moving on from /ad hominem/ to /tu quoque/. John |
#494
|
|||
|
|||
Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
Frank Krygowski
wrote: Hunrobe wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: Well, since the current rationalization for our $100 billion adventure is that Saddam was evil, somebody needs to explain how we decide exactly which evil dictators are evil enough to justify invasion. Apparently, not everyone on the "evil dictator" list qualifies. And not every terribly repressive country gets invaded. Some of the repressive countries just serve as sources for inexpensive bike frames. Others serve as sources for oil. Others, with no major resources to sell us, go completely unnoticed. Leaving aside your unsupported hyperbole describing the Saudi Crown Prince as "one of the world's worst dictators"... Try googling dictators, or worst dictators, or similar topics. His name will come up. I've seen it in several such lists. ---snip--- I've done that, Frank. Try reading the resulting links instead of relying on a mere list. The Human Rights Watch for one has called him an oppressive dictator and I won't argue that he's not. I will point out though that the actions that they point to when they apply that label are censorship of the press and establishing a de facto state religion. Neither is something I would support or even live peacably under but neither are they mass murder and genocide so your characterization of him as "one of the world's worst dictators" remains unsupported hyperbole. Absent truly evil acts like genocide, we haven't the right to interfere with other nations' internal affairs through military force... Sorry for interrupting, but you know as well as I that genocide has NOT been a criterion. We've ignored genocide quite nicely. And if you ask most Native Americans, they'd say we did worse than ignore it. ... *unless* those nations' activities pose a threat to our own nation's security either militarily or economically. I'd hope you'd want to rephrase that. Because, as it reads, if Saudi Arabia decided they wouldn't sell us any more oil (yes, far fetched), that would pose a threat to our nation's security "economically." Your statement would justify an invasion in that case. Surely you don't mean that. ---snip--- Why would I rephrase it? If such a thing took place and there was no way for this nation to continue to exist- the truest definition of national security- then it most certainly *would* justify an invasion IMO. Also, from what I understand, it was a similar action on our part - cutting off oil, hurting Japan's security both militarily and economically - that triggered the Pearl Harbor attack. Most people in America think that attack was not justified. ---snip--- Your understanding is flawed. When the US refused to sell Japan oil, rubber, and other materials we didn't threaten their national security. True, we disrupted plans by some in that nation to continue to build and use a war machine designed to annex neighboring nations through brute force but that's not the same thing now is it? As you well know the decision to use or not use military force in either type of offending nation- truly evil regimes or those that pose a threat to us- is now and has always been a matter of weighing the possible consequences of such action or inaction. Or rather, the consequences of one action versus another. Which brings us back to the fact that damned near the entire world thought that applying just enough pressure on Iraq to continue UN inspections was a suitable action. Damned near the entire world thought at the time that it was a better action than the one we performed, considering the possible consequences. And even more of the world thinks so now. ---snip--- On the one hand you speak of world opinion as if opinion in itself were a consequence and OTOH you say that in the opinion of "damned near the entire world" the risk of the action wasn't worth the possible consequences. Is world opinion a consequence or not? I'd say it's not. It's a global case of, "Okay, that's what you *think*. Now what are you going to *do*?", with the usual answer- not a damned thing. I don't doubt your intelligence but your overly-simplistic request for a 'formula' for those decisions certainly leads me to question your sincerity. And I don't doubt your intelligence, which is why I'm sure you recognized that as a rhetorical device. The world isn't black and white and you darn well know that. The guy who said "You're either with us or against us" (I think that's a direct quote) doesn't seem to think so. Perhaps you should write him a letter. If he could learn to perceive shades of grey, he might be better at his job. I'll make you a deal, Frank. I'll write him that letter if you'll explain why you can use rhetoric but no one else is allowed. (See your own comments above about "formula for decisions to use military force") Regards, Bob Hunt |
#495
|
|||
|
|||
Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
JP wrote:
... No, it is more like about 3 million jobs lost minus 900 thousand (crappy) jobs gained back.... A lot of the "job growth" over the last two months are positions in agriculture and construction. In most of the US, these are seasonal businesses. -- Tom Sherman – Quad City Area |
#496
|
|||
|
|||
Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
"G.T." wrote:
"Mark Hickey" wrote You should come on out to Arizona to find out how much we all like liberal northeast environmentalists out here, and what their "environMENTAL" actions have done to HUGE areas of the forest (now resembling the surface of the moon). With a few forest roads, some intelligent thinning of trees we wouldn't lose entire ecosystems every summer. I don't know what environMENTALists are but environmentalists would have let the fires burn long before the forests got to be tinderboxes and let nature run it's course. That would have probably been the best approach - but it's too late now unless we want to just burn it all to the ground (literally) and wait a couple centuries for it to come back to its natural state. I don't have *quite* that much patience... ;-) Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame |
#497
|
|||
|
|||
Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
Tom Sherman wrote:
A lot of the "job growth" over the last two months are positions in agriculture and construction. In most of the US, these are seasonal businesses. So let's see if I understand the principle - during the "off season" they were "lost jobs" but then during the "on season" they're not "job growth". I suppose by that accounting unemployment must be at well over 100% by now accumulatively. ;-) Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame |
#498
|
|||
|
|||
Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
"Mark Hickey" wrote in message
... Tom Sherman wrote: A lot of the "job growth" over the last two months are positions in agriculture and construction. In most of the US, these are seasonal businesses. So let's see if I understand the principle - during the "off season" they were "lost jobs" but then during the "on season" they're not "job growth". You just broke the code. Standard governmental-type methods, used by G's everywhere. I suppose by that accounting unemployment must be at well over 100% by now accumulatively. ;-) Expect the black helicopters imminently! -- Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net Tiens! Ce poulet a une grenade! |
#499
|
|||
|
|||
Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
Hunrobe wrote:
I'll make you a deal, Frank. I'll write him that letter if you'll explain why you can use rhetoric but no one else is allowed. What an odd proposition - considering I never said no one else is allowed to use rhetoric! -- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
#500
|
|||
|
|||
Why they hate us, was ( funny things to do on a bike)
There was a titanium bike thread started a few days ago. Not a peep
from Mark to instruct us about titanium. instead he continues to be entangled in a purely rhetorical exercise, which at this point is most likely futile to all parties involved. So, Mark: if you are engaging in this dialogue purely for fun, please continue, but do not neglect your duties in this group as a ti expert. Everyone else: if you are doing this for fun, again, please continue. However, in reading some of the posts, I can sense the frustration that some of you may feel. So, how about some titanium? Andres Tom Sherman wrote in message ... JP wrote: ... No, it is more like about 3 million jobs lost minus 900 thousand (crappy) jobs gained back.... A lot of the "job growth" over the last two months are positions in agriculture and construction. In most of the US, these are seasonal businesses. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
buying my first road bike | Tanya Quinn | General | 28 | June 17th 10 10:42 AM |
True Cost of a Supermarket Bike | Elisa Francesca Roselli | General | 41 | January 25th 04 04:18 AM |
Secure Bike Parking.? | M. Barbee | General | 14 | January 6th 04 02:00 AM |
my new bike | Marian Rosenberg | General | 5 | October 19th 03 03:00 PM |
Best Way to Travel with a Bike on an Airplane | F1 | General | 5 | August 14th 03 10:39 PM |