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  #171  
Old May 26th 19, 06:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Bottle holder

On Sat, 25 May 2019 23:18:49 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/25/2019 7:36 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 20:38:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Maybe if we get the "safety" nannies to focus on hose clamps, they'll
leave bicycles alone!


Well, we could add a safety wire to the hose clamp:
"Safety Wire Those Worm Drive Clamps"
https://avidflyer.fandom.com/wiki/Safety_Wire_Those_Worm_Drive_Clamps
Maybe start with a wave of horror stories about cyclists injured by
running over water bottles that had fallen off insecure bottle cages
attached with unsafe non-wired hose clamps. I'll volunteer my two
hose clamp injuries to start the campaign for safer water bottle
mounting clamps. If that gets the attention of the media or
aftermarket bicycle accessory market, maybe we can commission a survey
of volunteer cyclists to count the number of hose clamps found on the
road, some of which probably fell off of water bottle cage mounts. By
offering a bounty for hose clamps found, statistically relevant
figures can be manufactured errr... determined. Nothing is sacred
when safety when invoked in the name of safety.


Since almost no one mounts a bottle cage in that way I don't think that
a double-blind, peer-reviewed study on hose clamps would accomplish a
whole lot, but you should contact UCSC and see if they can find a
doctoral candidate to conduct such a study. But I have no doubt that if
such a study were ever conducted that it would be attacked with claims
that hose clamps used on gardening hoses pose a much bigger danger but
were ignored by the study. Or perhaps it would be someone falling out of
bed onto a hose clamp that had been dropped.


I don't think you understand. Such a study would not be necessary to
demonstrate that hose clamps and bicycles are an unsafe combination.
Simply having a study on the topic suggests that there might be safety
problems. The myriad of plastic and rubber safety options available
for making hose clamps safer also suggests that hose clamps might be
unsafe.

Doctoral candidates do not select their own dissertation topics. They
recommend a topic to their doctoral advisor, who then selects a
suitable topic for further study. Fortunately, hose clamp cycling
applications and safety is a new and exciting field that has been
poorly researched in the past and is therefore a highly appropriate
topic for a doctoral dissertation.

Whether hose clamps pose a danger to amateur or professional gardeners
is a topic of a different doctoral dissertation.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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  #172  
Old May 26th 19, 07:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Bottle holder

On 5/26/2019 1:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 11:27:55 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/25/2019 10:36 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 20:38:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Maybe if we get the "safety" nannies to focus on hose clamps, they'll
leave bicycles alone!

Well, we could add a safety wire to the hose clamp:
"Safety Wire Those Worm Drive Clamps"
https://avidflyer.fandom.com/wiki/Sa...m_Drive_Clamps


But... but... wouldn't the end of the wire be kind of sharp?


It would be pointless if it weren't sharp.
(Sorry, but that was just too tempting).


:-)


As in brake and shifter cables, there are crimp on end caps to help
minimize the bleeding:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=bicycle+cable+ends
When using safety wire, the twisted wires are commonly folded back on
themselves to avoid making a point. See photo #11:
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/brakes/1408-how-to-safety-wire-your-bolts-tight/
Notice the drill jig for bolts that lack safety wire holes.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=safety+wire+drilling+jig
Soon, bicyclists everywhere will be drilling holes in their bolt heads
for safety wires. If this is all too complexicated, use Occam's
Razor.


.... speaking of sharp...


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #173  
Old May 26th 19, 07:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Bottle holder

On 5/26/2019 1:59 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Fortunately, hose clamp cycling
applications and safety is a new and exciting field that has been
poorly researched in the past and is therefore a highly appropriate
topic for a doctoral dissertation.


You've got it! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #174  
Old May 26th 19, 08:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Bottle holder

On 5/26/2019 12:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 09:58:04 +0700, John B. wrote:


Just stick the damned bottle in your pocket :-)


They won't fit in my pockets, it's not fashionable, and my body heat
warms the bottles too much. It's also difficult to remove the bottle
for a drink and then replace it later. It may be a simple solution,
but it's not effective or even useful.


Speaking of not fashionable: Why did the once-fashionable handlebar
mounted cages become unfashionable? They look pretty convenient.

http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpe..._Bottles_3.jpg

https://winefolly-wpengine.netdna-ss...share-wine.jpg


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #175  
Old May 26th 19, 08:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Bottle holder

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 8:21:55 AM UTC-4, AK wrote:
I want to get a bottle holder for my bike.

It has no pre-drilled holes for the holder.

I found some that clamp on but not sure if they would work with the wide tube that I would need to mount it to.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/llqwef4nym...71257.jpg?dl=0

Andy


Bringing this thread back to the topic of bottle holders.

On some really long rides when the weather is quite hot and humid I'll use a spare toe strap to hold a water bottle under my seat tube and another spare toe strap to hold a water bottle to my handlebar. To hold the bottle to the handlebar the strap goes over the handlebar, then under the stem then back over the handlebar and around the bottle. Heck, I've even used the handlebar mount strap to hold a cup of coffee.

Cheers
  #176  
Old May 26th 19, 08:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Bottle holder

On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 3:04:25 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/26/2019 12:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 09:58:04 +0700, John B. wrote:


Just stick the damned bottle in your pocket :-)


They won't fit in my pockets, it's not fashionable, and my body heat
warms the bottles too much. It's also difficult to remove the bottle
for a drink and then replace it later. It may be a simple solution,
but it's not effective or even useful.


Speaking of not fashionable: Why did the once-fashionable handlebar
mounted cages become unfashionable? They look pretty convenient.

http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpe..._Bottles_3.jpg

https://winefolly-wpengine.netdna-ss...share-wine.jpg


--
- Frank Krygowski


I really like my Minoura single water bottle cage holder that mounts on the handlebar of a couple of my bikes. I use a Profile cage. I can put a straw through the valve of a Powerade bottle or coffee cup and drink whilst riding without having to take the bottle/cup out of the holder.

Cheers
  #177  
Old May 26th 19, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Bottle holder

On 5/26/2019 3:07 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 3:04:25 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/26/2019 12:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 09:58:04 +0700, John B. wrote:


Just stick the damned bottle in your pocket :-)

They won't fit in my pockets, it's not fashionable, and my body heat
warms the bottles too much. It's also difficult to remove the bottle
for a drink and then replace it later. It may be a simple solution,
but it's not effective or even useful.


Speaking of not fashionable: Why did the once-fashionable handlebar
mounted cages become unfashionable? They look pretty convenient.

http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpe..._Bottles_3.jpg

https://winefolly-wpengine.netdna-ss...share-wine.jpg


--
- Frank Krygowski


I really like my Minoura single water bottle cage holder that mounts on the handlebar of a couple of my bikes. I use a Profile cage. I can put a straw through the valve of a Powerade bottle or coffee cup and drink whilst riding without having to take the bottle/cup out of the holder.


When I rode my only double century, I did something similar. I had an
oversize bottle in my handlebar bag, with a long-ish piece of plastic
tubing I used as a straw. I could bend down and take a sip any time I
wanted, and I did it quite often.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #178  
Old May 26th 19, 10:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Bottle holder

On Sun, 26 May 2019 15:04:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Speaking of not fashionable: Why did the once-fashionable handlebar
mounted cages become unfashionable? They look pretty convenient.
http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpe..._Bottles_3.jpg
https://winefolly-wpengine.netdna-ss...share-wine.jpg


Handlebar mounted water bottles lost favor with fashionable cyclists
due to competition from other devices that are hung on the handlebars.
For example, electronic shifters, bell, megalumen lighting,
smartphones, map displays, bicycle computahs, paintball gun, rear view
mirror, dashboard camera, grocery basket, stem lock, dog repellent
spray can, condiments holder, etc. Since all of these sell for more
than the cost of a water bottle and cage, the marketing expenditures
tend to ignore water bottles, except when they're modified to hold
headlight batteries.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #179  
Old May 26th 19, 10:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Bottle holder

On 5/26/2019 2:17 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Handlebar mounted water bottles lost favor with fashionable cyclists
due to competition from other devices that are hung on the handlebars.
For example, electronic shifters, bell, megalumen lighting,
smartphones, map displays, bicycle computahs, paintball gun, rear view
mirror, dashboard camera, grocery basket, stem lock, dog repellent
spray can, condiments holder, etc. Since all of these sell for more
than the cost of a water bottle and cage, the marketing expenditures
tend to ignore water bottles, except when they're modified to hold
headlight batteries.


Well bottle cage mounts are now also used for all sorts of things other
than just bottle cages. Some retrofit E-bikes mount a pretty heavy
battery to the bottle cage mounts and in that case you'd want to use
frame clamps instead of Rivnut mounted bosses because the load is
distributed around the whole frame tube and not just on the thin wall of
the frame tube. Riveted front derailleur hangers used to fail like crazy
on Cannondales, it was just too much load for the Rivnuts.
  #180  
Old May 26th 19, 10:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Bottle holder

On Sun, 26 May 2019 09:58:54 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 19:36:11 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 25 May 2019 20:38:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Maybe if we get the "safety" nannies to focus on hose clamps, they'll
leave bicycles alone!

Well, we could add a safety wire to the hose clamp:
"Safety Wire Those Worm Drive Clamps"
https://avidflyer.fandom.com/wiki/Safety_Wire_Those_Worm_Drive_Clamps
Maybe start with a wave of horror stories about cyclists injured by
running over water bottles that had fallen off insecure bottle cages
attached with unsafe non-wired hose clamps. I'll volunteer my two
hose clamp injuries to start the campaign for safer water bottle
mounting clamps. If that gets the attention of the media or
aftermarket bicycle accessory market, maybe we can commission a survey
of volunteer cyclists to count the number of hose clamps found on the
road, some of which probably fell off of water bottle cage mounts. By
offering a bounty for hose clamps found, statistically relevant
figures can be manufactured errr... determined. Nothing is sacred
when safety when invoked in the name of safety.


The is some sort of theory, "Occam's Razor" I believe, that says that
the simplest solution is likely to be correct ?



The thing about Occam’s Razor that is often overlooked is that it’s
referring to the simplest SOLUTION, not the simplest hair brained scheme.

A correlation might be "do it the simple way and you won't get hurt".
Just stick the damned bottle in your pocket :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


as I said... the simplest solution to the problem of being slashed
with an errant hose clamp is to simply put the water bottle on your
pocket :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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