Durability 11 speed chains

I hit the 6000 km mark with my first 11 speed Campagnolo equipped roadbike
today and used the Rohloff caliber to measure the chain wear:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E1...376%5B1%5D.JPG

Except for an occasional caught in the rain situation this bike was ridden
in dry conditions. Never removed the chain from the bike for cleaning with
a solvent, only wipped it off with a rag and cleaned it on the bike with
water and soap from time to time. Chain is a Campagnolo Record 11 speed (43
euro).

While I was at it I did the same with my cross bike, also 11 speed but
Shimano in this case. This chain has been used for 2340 km most of the time
off road and often in wet and muddy conditions:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--c...382%5B1%5D.JPG

Chain is a Ultegra level CN6800 11 speed (23 euro), also never removed from
the bike for cleaning with solvents.
I use a wax based lube for both chains.
So even with a 11 speed drivetrain chain cost is insignificant in my case.





--
Lou

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 5:48:58 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
I hit the 6000 km mark with my first 11 speed Campagnolo equipped roadbike
today and used the Rohloff caliber to measure the chain wear:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E1...376%5B1%5D.JPG

Except for an occasional caught in the rain situation this bike was ridden
in dry conditions. Never removed the chain from the bike for cleaning with
a solvent, only wipped it off with a rag and cleaned it on the bike with
water and soap from time to time. Chain is a Campagnolo Record 11 speed (43
euro).

While I was at it I did the same with my cross bike, also 11 speed but
Shimano in this case. This chain has been used for 2340 km most of the time
off road and often in wet and muddy conditions:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--c...382%5B1%5D.JPG

Chain is a Ultegra level CN6800 11 speed (23 euro), also never removed from
the bike for cleaning with solvents.
I use a wax based lube for both chains.
So even with a 11 speed drivetrain chain cost is insignificant in my case..
Lou

Well, I'm a lot more active with my cleaning and I use 9-speed parts meaning that the chains are all 10 speed these days. Since I put in between 6,000 and 10,000 miles a year the chain costs are hardly insignificant. Ebay cost for a Campy or DuraAce chain is about $50 and I have four road bikes and an off-road. I always use a master link these days so that I can remove the chain and cassette to clean completely. Since all of the bikes have different wheelbases the lengths of the chains are approximately the same but a link or two difference so you can't change them around and have a spare chain to switch in.

I feel very slow but apparently I'm not judging from the number of people that pass me only to be at the top of the hill with their heads between their legs as I ride past. So perhaps I put more wear on a chain than normal.

I go through a minimum of two chains per bike each year so that's $500. I tried the cheaper chains which were said to be every bit as good as the more expensive only to have them wear MUCH faster. Several of my riding pals have the same experience but most of them only have a single bike and perhaps a back-up for rainy days.

I've tried all of the magic lubricants and the wet lubes such as Rocket work very well and you can actually feel the difference. But they are messy and weep until the next cleaning.

But the best I've found is simply wax lube in a can. You put your can of wax into a flat pan of water and bring it almost to a boil. This will melt the wax. In the meantime you heat your CLEAN chain on a pan with a parchment underlayer in the oven until it is JUST hot enough so that it won't burn your hands. I have fashioned a couple of hooks of heavy wire that I catch the chain ends with and then I hold the chain in a vertical loop and work the chain back and forth through the wax from end to end several times. You then remove it and let it cool and dry - about 5 minutes. Then reassemble the chain on the bike.

Not only does the chain last longer, run smoother and quieter but the wear on the sprockets is reduced.

The negative is that you have to do this procedure more often than simply shooting some Rocket on the chain and leaving it to dry overnight. And it gets a heavy residue on the sprockets that is difficult to clean off.

So because of the extra work I just usually clean the chain and use a wet lube like Rocket and leave it to dry AT LEAST overnight.

To lube you don't spray it on but slowly rotate the chain and deposit one drop on each link until the entire chain is lubed. Most road bikes have 106 links or so. But if you use a master link it's easier to start and finish there.

And it is difficult to get a "drop" out and you have to keep up ending the bottle to allow air in. And then the next three "drops" are three or four so that you use the expensive lubes up much faster than necessary.

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 7:04:35 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 5:48:58 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
I hit the 6000 km mark with my first 11 speed Campagnolo equipped roadbike
today and used the Rohloff caliber to measure the chain wear:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E1...376%5B1%5D.JPG

Except for an occasional caught in the rain situation this bike was ridden
in dry conditions. Never removed the chain from the bike for cleaning with
a solvent, only wipped it off with a rag and cleaned it on the bike with
water and soap from time to time. Chain is a Campagnolo Record 11 speed (43
euro).

While I was at it I did the same with my cross bike, also 11 speed but
Shimano in this case. This chain has been used for 2340 km most of the time
off road and often in wet and muddy conditions:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--c...382%5B1%5D.JPG

Chain is a Ultegra level CN6800 11 speed (23 euro), also never removed from
the bike for cleaning with solvents.
I use a wax based lube for both chains.
So even with a 11 speed drivetrain chain cost is insignificant in my case.
Lou

Well, I'm a lot more active with my cleaning and I use 9-speed parts meaning that the chains are all 10 speed these days. Since I put in between 6,000 and 10,000 miles a year the chain costs are hardly insignificant. Ebay cost for a Campy or DuraAce chain is about $50 and I have four road bikes and an off-road. I always use a master link these days so that I can remove the chain and cassette to clean completely. Since all of the bikes have different wheelbases the lengths of the chains are approximately the same but a link or two difference so you can't change them around and have a spare chain to switch in.

I feel very slow but apparently I'm not judging from the number of people that pass me only to be at the top of the hill with their heads between their legs as I ride past. So perhaps I put more wear on a chain than normal.

I go through a minimum of two chains per bike each year so that's $500. I tried the cheaper chains which were said to be every bit as good as the more expensive only to have them wear MUCH faster. Several of my riding pals have the same experience but most of them only have a single bike and perhaps a back-up for rainy days.

I've tried all of the magic lubricants and the wet lubes such as Rocket work very well and you can actually feel the difference. But they are messy and weep until the next cleaning.

But the best I've found is simply wax lube in a can. You put your can of wax into a flat pan of water and bring it almost to a boil. This will melt the wax. In the meantime you heat your CLEAN chain on a pan with a parchment underlayer in the oven until it is JUST hot enough so that it won't burn your hands. I have fashioned a couple of hooks of heavy wire that I catch the chain ends with and then I hold the chain in a vertical loop and work the chain back and forth through the wax from end to end several times. You then remove it and let it cool and dry - about 5 minutes. Then reassemble the chain on the bike.

Not only does the chain last longer, run smoother and quieter but the wear on the sprockets is reduced.

The negative is that you have to do this procedure more often than simply shooting some Rocket on the chain and leaving it to dry overnight. And it gets a heavy residue on the sprockets that is difficult to clean off.

So because of the extra work I just usually clean the chain and use a wet lube like Rocket and leave it to dry AT LEAST overnight.

To lube you don't spray it on but slowly rotate the chain and deposit one drop on each link until the entire chain is lubed. Most road bikes have 106 links or so. But if you use a master link it's easier to start and finish there.

And it is difficult to get a "drop" out and you have to keep up ending the bottle to allow air in. And then the next three "drops" are three or four so that you use the expensive lubes up much faster than necessary.

Hmmm. You put in between 6-10,000 miles on five bikes, and you're buying ten chains a year? That seems excessive. Lou is getting 3,600 miles out of one chain with no off-bike cleaning and some wax-based bottle lube.

I did serious chain maintenance yesterday on my commuter. I leaned the bike against a bush near my garage door, sprayed the chain with some lube while running it backwards over the cassette and then wiped it down. I'm exhausted. The spray can is super heavy.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 9/4/2015 10:28 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Hmmm. You put in between 6-10,000 miles on five bikes, and you're buying
ten chains a year? That seems excessive. Lou is getting 3,600 miles out of
one chain with no off-bike cleaning and some wax-based bottle lube.

Here are pics of an ancient article from now-defunct _Bike World_
magazine, where a guy actually gathered data on a variety of chain
lubes. I like data, but I gotta admit, I'm not disciplined enough to do
what he did.

http://tinyurl.com/pyd6cz6

http://tinyurl.com/op6fmc9

Others have read this before, but: My chain lube is paraffin wax with a
small amount of oil or gear lube blended in. Rather than soak the chain
in a pot of molten wax/oil mixture, I apply the mix with the chain on
the bike. I warm the chain a few inches at a time with a low flame
propane torch, crayon the mix on, re-warm till it melts, backpedal then
repeat, and wipe it all down to remove excess. Details on request.
Takes about five to ten minutes, lasts plenty long enough for me, keeps
the bike very clean, etc. Details on request.

Warning to Jay: A propane torch is even heavier than a spray can.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 8:17:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/4/2015 10:28 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Hmmm. You put in between 6-10,000 miles on five bikes, and you're buying
ten chains a year? That seems excessive. Lou is getting 3,600 miles out of
one chain with no off-bike cleaning and some wax-based bottle lube.

Here are pics of an ancient article from now-defunct _Bike World_
magazine, where a guy actually gathered data on a variety of chain
lubes. I like data, but I gotta admit, I'm not disciplined enough to do
what he did.

http://tinyurl.com/pyd6cz6

http://tinyurl.com/op6fmc9

Others have read this before, but: My chain lube is paraffin wax with a
small amount of oil or gear lube blended in. Rather than soak the chain
in a pot of molten wax/oil mixture, I apply the mix with the chain on
the bike. I warm the chain a few inches at a time with a low flame
propane torch, crayon the mix on, re-warm till it melts, backpedal then
repeat, and wipe it all down to remove excess. Details on request.
Takes about five to ten minutes, lasts plenty long enough for me, keeps
the bike very clean, etc. Details on request.

Warning to Jay: A propane torch is even heavier than a spray can.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Velo News published a test more recently (in the last decade), and yes, paraffin came out on top. During the wet fall and winter, though, nothing stays on my chain for more than a day or two -- and on some rides, more than five minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo-XnPJRJVg No time to be fussy.

-- Jay Beattie

On 9/4/2015 9:04 AM, wrote:
On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 5:48:58 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
I hit the 6000 km mark with my first 11 speed Campagnolo equipped roadbike
today and used the Rohloff caliber to measure the chain wear:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E1...376%5B1%5D.JPG

Except for an occasional caught in the rain situation this bike was ridden
in dry conditions. Never removed the chain from the bike for cleaning with
a solvent, only wipped it off with a rag and cleaned it on the bike with
water and soap from time to time. Chain is a Campagnolo Record 11 speed (43
euro).

While I was at it I did the same with my cross bike, also 11 speed but
Shimano in this case. This chain has been used for 2340 km most of the time
off road and often in wet and muddy conditions:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--c...382%5B1%5D.JPG

Chain is a Ultegra level CN6800 11 speed (23 euro), also never removed from
the bike for cleaning with solvents.
I use a wax based lube for both chains.
So even with a 11 speed drivetrain chain cost is insignificant in my case.
Lou

Well, I'm a lot more active with my cleaning and I use 9-speed parts meaning that the chains are all 10 speed these days. Since I put in between 6,000 and 10,000 miles a year the chain costs are hardly insignificant. Ebay cost for a Campy or DuraAce chain is about $50 and I have four road bikes and an off-road. I always use a master link these days so that I can remove the chain and cassette to clean completely. Since all of the bikes have different wheelbases the lengths of the chains are approximately the same but a link or two difference so you can't change them around and have a spare chain to switch in.

I feel very slow but apparently I'm not judging from the number of people that pass me only to be at the top of the hill with their heads between their legs as I ride past. So perhaps I put more wear on a chain than normal.

I go through a minimum of two chains per bike each year so that's $500. I tried the cheaper chains which were said to be every bit as good as the more expensive only to have them wear MUCH faster. Several of my riding pals have the same experience but most of them only have a single bike and perhaps a back-up for rainy days.

I've tried all of the magic lubricants and the wet lubes such as Rocket work very well and you can actually feel the difference. But they are messy and weep until the next cleaning.

But the best I've found is simply wax lube in a can. You put your can of wax into a flat pan of water and bring it almost to a boil. This will melt the wax. In the meantime you heat your CLEAN chain on a pan with a parchment underlayer in the oven until it is JUST hot enough so that it won't burn your hands. I have fashioned a couple of hooks of heavy wire that I catch the chain ends with and then I hold the chain in a vertical loop and work the chain back and forth through the wax from end to end several times. You then remove it and let it cool and dry - about 5 minutes. Then reassemble the chain on the bike.

Not only does the chain last longer, run smoother and quieter but the wear on the sprockets is reduced.

The negative is that you have to do this procedure more often than simply shooting some Rocket on the chain and leaving it to dry overnight. And it gets a heavy residue on the sprockets that is difficult to clean off.

So because of the extra work I just usually clean the chain and use a wet lube like Rocket and leave it to dry AT LEAST overnight.

To lube you don't spray it on but slowly rotate the chain and deposit one drop on each link until the entire chain is lubed. Most road bikes have 106 links or so. But if you use a master link it's easier to start and finish there.

And it is difficult to get a "drop" out and you have to keep up ending the bottle to allow air in. And then the next three "drops" are three or four so that you use the expensive lubes up much faster than necessary.


Hat's off to you.

If maintaining my bike took that much time I would probably
have given up cycling long ago.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Lou Holtman wrote:
I hit the 6000 km mark with my first 11 speed Campagnolo equipped roadbike
today and used the Rohloff caliber to measure the chain wear:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E1...376%5B1%5D.JPG

Except for an occasional caught in the rain situation this bike was ridden
in dry conditions. Never removed the chain from the bike for cleaning with
a solvent, only wipped it off with a rag and cleaned it on the bike with
water and soap from time to time. Chain is a Campagnolo Record 11 speed (43
euro).

While I was at it I did the same with my cross bike, also 11 speed but
Shimano in this case. This chain has been used for 2340 km most of the time
off road and often in wet and muddy conditions:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--c...382%5B1%5D.JPG

Chain is a Ultegra level CN6800 11 speed (23 euro), also never removed from
the bike for cleaning with solvents.
I use a wax based lube for both chains.
So even with a 11 speed drivetrain chain cost is insignificant in my case.





My SRAM 11 speed is approaching 4000 and still showing .5. I do about the
same as you but I use finish line dry lube.

--
duane

On 2015-09-04 21:50:55 +0000, Duane said:

Lou Holtman wrote:
I hit the 6000 km mark with my first 11 speed Campagnolo equipped roadbike
today and used the Rohloff caliber to measure the chain wear:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E1...376%5B1%5D.JPG


Except for an occasional caught in the rain situation this bike was ridden
in dry conditions. Never removed the chain from the bike for cleaning with
a solvent, only wipped it off with a rag and cleaned it on the bike with
water and soap from time to time. Chain is a Campagnolo Record 11 speed (43
euro).

While I was at it I did the same with my cross bike, also 11 speed but
Shimano in this case. This chain has been used for 2340 km most of the time
off road and often in wet and muddy conditions:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--c...382%5B1%5D.JPG


Chain is a Ultegra level CN6800 11 speed (23 euro), also never removed from
the bike for cleaning with solvents.
I use a wax based lube for both chains.
So even with a 11 speed drivetrain chain cost is insignificant in my case.





My SRAM 11 speed is approaching 4000 and still showing .5. I do about the
same as you but I use finish line dry lube.

What strikes me every time is how little the chains wear on my roadbike
without special 'treatment'. That didn't changed going to 11 speed. I
replace my chain on my Campy equipped bikes when the 0.075 side of the
Rohloff caliber sinks completely into the chain. The picture shows that
even after 6000 km I am far from that moment. From experience I know
that I don't have the change the cassette then. I can do that for 3
chains. That is such a mileage that it even doesn't matter costwise if
I buy the expensive Record cassette.
Compared to this Tom's mileage of 2 chains per bike per year sounds
ridiculous considering his cleaning effort and spreading his 10000
miles a year over 5 bikes. That is on average a pathetic 1000 miles per
chain. Unbelievable low to me.

I was really surprized about the wear of the 11 speed Shimano CN6800
chain on my crossbike considering the 'mudwrestling' I did with that
bike. Even after 2340 km the chain has some mileage on. Shimano really
improved their chains. Something TOUR magazine also noticed in their
annual chain tests.

--

Lou

On Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 5:05:45 AM UTC-4, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2015-09-04 21:50:55 +0000, Duane said:

Lou Holtman wrote:
I hit the 6000 km mark with my first 11 speed Campagnolo equipped roadbike
today and used the Rohloff caliber to measure the chain wear:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E1...376%5B1%5D.JPG


Except for an occasional caught in the rain situation this bike was ridden
in dry conditions. Never removed the chain from the bike for cleaning with
a solvent, only wipped it off with a rag and cleaned it on the bike with
water and soap from time to time. Chain is a Campagnolo Record 11 speed (43
euro).

While I was at it I did the same with my cross bike, also 11 speed but
Shimano in this case. This chain has been used for 2340 km most of the time
off road and often in wet and muddy conditions:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--c...382%5B1%5D.JPG


Chain is a Ultegra level CN6800 11 speed (23 euro), also never removed from
the bike for cleaning with solvents.
I use a wax based lube for both chains.
So even with a 11 speed drivetrain chain cost is insignificant in my case.





My SRAM 11 speed is approaching 4000 and still showing .5. I do about the
same as you but I use finish line dry lube.

What strikes me every time is how little the chains wear on my roadbike
without special 'treatment'. That didn't changed going to 11 speed. I
replace my chain on my Campy equipped bikes when the 0.075 side of the
Rohloff caliber sinks completely into the chain. The picture shows that
even after 6000 km I am far from that moment. From experience I know
that I don't have the change the cassette then. I can do that for 3
chains. That is such a mileage that it even doesn't matter costwise if
I buy the expensive Record cassette.
Compared to this Tom's mileage of 2 chains per bike per year sounds
ridiculous considering his cleaning effort and spreading his 10000
miles a year over 5 bikes. That is on average a pathetic 1000 miles per
chain. Unbelievable low to me.

I was really surprized about the wear of the 11 speed Shimano CN6800
chain on my crossbike considering the 'mudwrestling' I did with that
bike. Even after 2340 km the chain has some mileage on. Shimano really
improved their chains. Something TOUR magazine also noticed in their
annual chain tests.

--

Lou

I think that sometimes a rigourous cleaning regimen actually promotes faster wear of some things.

Cheers

On 9/5/2015 5:05 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

I was really surprized about the wear of the 11 speed Shimano CN6800
chain on my crossbike considering the 'mudwrestling' I did with that
bike. Even after 2340 km the chain has some mileage on. Shimano really
improved their chains. Something TOUR magazine also noticed in their
annual chain tests.

I'm jealous that you have a magazine that does things like annual chain
tests. In the U.S., our magazines are much more prone to things like
"stiff but compliant" and "the bib shorts you have to buy!" and "tips
for great-looking legs."

--
- Frank Krygowski