facing the traffic old laws

I have heard that at least some states used to have laws or advice to
cyclists that made cycling against the flow the usual practice.

Can anyone here either give me an account of this or direct me to a
source of information, please?

TerryJ
UK

On 15 Oct 2009 23:07:43 GMT, Jobst Brandt wrote:

Terry Jones wrote:

I have heard that at least some states used to have laws or advice
to cyclists that made cycling against the flow the usual practice.

Can anyone here either give me an account of this or direct me to a
source of information, please?

I think you are asking the wrong question of this newsgroup. If the
road is narrow and a bicyclist rides opposing traffic, oncoming cars
must make a full stop and wait for the bicyclist to make way. If the
bicyclist travels with traffic, cars would need only to slow and pass
when opposing traffic made it safe to do so.

The "ride against traffic" advice comes from impractical theoreticians
whose arguments appear in this newsgroup often. Among these are the
"take the lane" folks who believe that this is the way to avoid
rear-end collisions when riding on curvy roads. That is a sure way of
enraging motorists who don't need to be told that a bicyclist is a
higher life form than a motorist.

Be practical and don't worry about riding on the "wrong" side of the
street if you do it with care and caution so that other road users
don't get the impression that the bicyclist believes he has higher
priority than others.

Jobst Brandt

I don't think he was advocating it, just researching it.

I wish joggers would decide which side to run on. 90% run on the right
side, and 10% run on the left (USA).

Be practical and don't worry about riding on the "wrong" side of the
street if you do it with care and caution so that other road users
don't get the impression that the bicyclist believes he has higher
priority than others.

Jobst Brandt

I don't think he was advocating it, just researching it.

I wish joggers would decide which side to run on. 90% run on the right
side, and 10% run on the left (USA).

I am absolutely not advocating it. It sounds terrifying.

However there might have been some logic to it in the days when all
the traffic was going relatively slowly and a motor vehicle was
encountered rarely , especially away from the cities.
there are still some people who do it in London. They are generally
held in low esteem.

I just wanted to know where and when such a practice was the official
recommendation.
I read in two American sites the author saying that he had been taught
to cycle against the traffic but that is no longer the law.
I think one of them was written by Frank but cannot remember which
page . There was no more detail there anyway.
TerryJ
uk

On Oct 16, 9:55*am, TerryJ wrote:


I just wanted to know where and when such a practice was the official
recommendation.
I read in two American sites the author saying that he had been taught
to cycle against the traffic *but that is no longer the law.
I think one of them was written by Frank but cannot remember which
page . There was no more detail there anyway.

I don't know of any place it was ever an official recommendation, and
I certainly don't recall saying so.

My earliest recollection of the issue was in about 1960 or so, riding
with three friends in a suburban neighborhood. We argued and split 2
vs. 2 on whether we were supposed to ride with traffic or facing
traffic. I was one of the two riding with traffic.

It's certainly true, however, that lots of American parents still tell
their kids to ride facing traffic. In my area, it seems to have
gotten better over the years, but I still occasionally encounter
entire families riding against traffic.

- Frank Krygowski

"TerryJ" wrote in message
...
I have heard that at least some states used to have laws or advice
to
cyclists that made cycling against the flow the usual practice.

Can anyone here either give me an account of this or direct me to a
source of information, please?

I wish I could, I've wondered about it for years.

When I came to the USA, to Washington DC, from the UK in 1963, I was
astonished to be told by everybody in my office that one was supposed
to ride the "wrong way", with lots of jokes about Britain driving on
the left etc. A few days later I picked up a leaflet about cycling
from a rack of DC Dept of Motor Vehicles leaflets on various
subjects, on display at my local post office.

The cycling leaflet talked, much to my relief, about following the
normal vehicle laws, which left me just as astonished that the entire
population was apparently so ignorant about cycling that they didn't
even know which side of the road to ride on.

I asked Phyllis Harmon about this once. She was a leading member of
the LAW from, I think, before WW II, and after she became less active
was given the position of the LAW's historian. She was from Chicago.
All she said was that she thought that the idea had grown up in the
1950s. It sounded as though nobody had ever told her personally that
she ought to ride on the left

It sounded to me though that it was an almost universal teaching
among "bicycle safety experts" of the 1950s that one should ride the
wrong way, like a pedestrian, presumably so that, in case of
emergency you could jump into a hedge, like a pedestrian..

This seems to have been true not just in the USA, but Canada too, and
maybe parts of Latin America too.

I asked John Forester about it once. He came to the USA just before
WW II,, so would have spent his teens growing up in the war years in
California. He apparently never heard of the left riding idea in
California, where there seems to have been a continuous bike culture,
even if it was at a low ebb, from the bike boom of the 1930s

From hearing about the Uniform Vehicle Code, it never adopted, wrong
way riding, and maybe they never even thought about it. Bikes were
considered, I think, just before WW II, and then never considered
again until Davis California (riding on the right) invented bike
lanes in 1967, and wanted various changes to California law to
accommodate them

This is all rather vague,.and likely inaccurate, too. I do hope some
people know more

Jeremy Parker

On Oct 15, 4:01*pm, TerryJ wrote:
I have heard that at least some states used to have laws or advice to
cyclists that made cycling against the flow the usual practice.

Can anyone here either give me an account of this or direct me to a
source of information, please?

TerryJ
UK

Here's what The Wisconsin DOT says about it and related issues:

"General rules
Ride at least three feet from the curb or parked vehicles or debris in
curb area and in a straight line.

Don't swerve in and out around parked vehicles.

Always ride in the same direction as traffic.

Sidewalk riding for bicyclists past the learning stage and being
closely supervised by adults can be more dangerous than on the road,
obeying traffic laws. It is also illegal unless the community has
passed an ordinance specifically permitting sidewalk riding. This can
be age-restricted, location-restricted or based on the type of
property abutting the sidewalk.

Obey all traffic laws.

Be predictable! Let other users know where you intend to go and
maintain an understood course.


Narrow lanes
Ride in the center of the lane.
Keep at least three feet between yourself and passing or parked
traffic.


Wide lanes
Ride just to the right of the actual traffic line, not alongside the
curb.
Keep at least three feet between yourself and the curb or from parked
vehicles. Motorists should be passing you with at least 3 feet of
clearance.


Don't get the door prize!

Ride in a straight line three feet out from parked cars. You'll avoid
car doors that open in front of you and you'll be more visible to
other drivers.

Don't pull into the space between parked cars. Ride just to the right
of the actual traffic line, not alongside the curb.

Ride straight, three feet from parked cars - don't get "doored"


Take the lane

You will fare better with other road users if you function like a
legal vehicle operator, which you are.

Right turning motorists can be a problem, but taking the lane or more
of the right portion of the wide curb lane can prevent this. Take an
adult bicycling course to learn skills and develop confidence in
traffic.

Left turning motorists are the cause of most adult bicyclists’
crashes. Motorists claim not to see the cyclist who is traveling in a
straight path in the opposite direction. [ N.B. THIS HAPPENED TO ME
IN 2003 - Ron]

Bicyclists, when making your own left turn look over your left
shoulder for traffic, signal your left turn and change lanes smoothly,
so you are to the left side or center of the through lane by the time
you reach the intersection. If a left turn lane is present, make a
lane change to center of that lane. Do not move to left of that lane
as left-turning motorists may cut you off.

Do not wait until you reach the crosswalk, then stop and try to ride
from a stop across other traffic. If you need to cross as a
pedestrian, leave the travel lanes, then get into the crosswalk,
walking or riding your bicycle like a pedestrian travels, not fast,
and with pedestrian signals.
Lane positioning can be especially important in approaching a downhill
intersection. Moving to the center makes you more visible to
intersecting and left turning motorists in opposing lanes.

Going downhill, your speed is likely to be closer to traffic speeds or
posted speed limits. Hugging the curb when there are visual barriers
increases your chance to be struck by a bigger vehicle, or of hitting
a pedestrian or sidewalk riding bicyclist.
Take the lane, be seen and see other traffic better if you are close
to traffic speeds

Going downhill, your speed is likely to be closer to traffic speeds or
posted speed limits. Hugging the curb when there are visual barriers
increases your chance to be struck by a bigger vehicle, or of hitting
a pedestrian or sidewalk riding bicyclist.
Take the lane, be seen and see other traffic better if you are close
to traffic speeds


this is fine stuff but not the historical weirdness I was looking for.
Perhaps there was never any official advice to ride on the left.
TerryJ

"Jeremy Parker" wrote in message
...

"TerryJ" wrote in message
...
I have heard that at least some states used to have laws or advice
to
cyclists that made cycling against the flow the usual practice.

Can anyone here either give me an account of this or direct me to
a
source of information, please?

I wish I could, I've wondered about it for years.

[snip]

Following up my previous post, my guess is = and it is only a guess -
that the "road safety" community of traffic engineers, DMV people,
law enforcement people etc never endorsed wrong way riding. Whether
they heard of it, discussed it, and specifically rejected it would be
interesting to know.

Associated with the above community would be the AAA, who developed
such ideas as bike roadeos etc. While these were generally useless,
and occasionally mildly wrongheaded, they never endorsed, so far as I
know, wrong way riding

The Boy Scouts have long had a cycling merit badge. That was
reasonable too. The American Youth Hostels Association also ran bike
trips when almost nobody else did. They too know how to do it right.

However, the wrong way idea was widespread enough that there must
have been some community of "safety experts" who spread the wrong way
idea, with a journal to circulate ideas and so forth.

It must have been some group convinced it had a mission to tell
children what to do, even though they didn't have a clue themselves,
and were so ignorant that they didn't even know that they were
ignorant. Some teachers' group perhaps? Phys' Ed Teachers? Nurses?

This is all speculation, of course. Again, anyone who knows more,
please tell us

Jeremy Parker

TerryJ wrote:

Going downhill, your speed is likely to be closer to traffic speeds or
posted speed limits. Hugging the curb when there are visual barriers
increases your chance to be struck by a bigger vehicle, or of hitting
a pedestrian or sidewalk riding bicyclist.
Take the lane, be seen and see other traffic better if you are close
to traffic speeds


this is fine stuff but not the historical weirdness I was looking for.
Perhaps there was never any official advice to ride on the left.
TerryJ

I think there was plenty of advice (and still is) to walk or run facing
traffic. My impression is that novice cyclists sometimes just carry this
advice over to cycling. For those who ride at walking/jogging speed it
doesn't seem to make much difference.

Peter Cole wrote:
TerryJ wrote:

Going downhill, your speed is likely to be closer to traffic speeds
or posted speed limits. Hugging the curb when there are visual
barriers increases your chance to be struck by a bigger vehicle, or
of hitting a pedestrian or sidewalk riding bicyclist.
Take the lane, be seen and see other traffic better if you are close
to traffic speeds


this is fine stuff but not the historical weirdness I was looking
for. Perhaps there was never any official advice to ride on the left.
TerryJ

I think there was plenty of advice (and still is) to walk or run
facing traffic. My impression is that novice cyclists sometimes just
carry this advice over to cycling. For those who ride at
walking/jogging speed it doesn't seem to make much difference.

You wouldn't have said that if you had been in my car early the other
morning, in the FOG, and all of a sudden there was a cyclist coming straight
at me in my lane!

Pat in TX