Mercian

I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of business but I see that not only are they still in business but they are building a very wide variety of bikes. Now my experience with the Waterford/PDG Schwinn's were that they were not the Pretty Damn Good that the name suggests, they were still good bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was entirely satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only reason I parted with them was to get better paint since a D&D paintjob was about as expensive as a new bike. And at the time I was riding Mercian they used a paint job that would scratch if you looked sideways at them.

On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 11:57:14 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of business but I see that not only are they still in business but they are building a very wide variety of bikes. Now my experience with the Waterford/PDG Schwinn's were that they were not the Pretty Damn Good that the name suggests, they were still good bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was entirely satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only reason I parted with them was to get better paint since a D&D paintjob was about as expensive as a new bike. And at the time I was riding Mercian they used a paint job that would scratch if you looked sideways at them.

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/

On 17/01/2021 21:16, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 11:57:14 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of business but I see that not only are they still in business but they are building a very wide variety of bikes. Now my experience with the Waterford/PDG Schwinn's were that they were not the Pretty Damn Good that the name suggests, they were still good bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was entirely satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only reason I parted with them was to get better paint since a D&D paintjob was about as expensive as a new bike. And at the time I was riding Mercian they used a paint job that would scratch if you looked sideways at them.

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/

Nothing looks better than nice lugged brazed frame. Even better if it's
Ti...

On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 6:45:41 AM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 17/01/2021 21:16, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 11:57:14 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of business but I see that not only are they still in business but they are building a very wide variety of bikes. Now my experience with the Waterford/PDG Schwinn's were that they were not the Pretty Damn Good that the name suggests, they were still good bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was entirely satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only reason I parted with them was to get better paint since a D&D paintjob was about as expensive as a new bike. And at the time I was riding Mercian they used a paint job that would scratch if you looked sideways at them.

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/
Nothing looks better than nice lugged brazed frame. Even better if it's
Ti...
Tell us about these lugged and brazed titanium frames. You should be a little clearer on your responses. I'm sure you know better than what you wrote.

On 18/01/2021 20:21, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 6:45:41 AM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 17/01/2021 21:16, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 11:57:14 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich
wrote:
I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of business but
I see that not only are they still in business but they are
building a very wide variety of bikes. Now my experience with
the Waterford/PDG Schwinn's were that they were not the Pretty
Damn Good that the name suggests, they were still good bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was
entirely satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only reason I
parted with them was to get better paint since a D&D paintjob
was about as expensive as a new bike. And at the time I was
riding Mercian they used a paint job that would scratch if you
looked sideways at them.

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/
Nothing looks better than nice lugged brazed frame. Even better if
it's Ti...
Tell us about these lugged and brazed titanium frames. You should be
a little clearer on your responses. I'm sure you know better than
what you wrote.

Look, I can fantasize as much as the next man.

You *could* braze titanium though? Wouldn't it just have to be in an
oxygen free environment?

On 1/19/2021 11:48 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/01/2021 20:21, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 6:45:41 AM UTC-8, Tosspot
wrote:
On 17/01/2021 21:16, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 11:57:14 AM UTC-8, Tom
Kunich
wrote:
I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of
business but
I see that not only are they still in business but they
are
building a very wide variety of bikes. Now my
experience with
the Waterford/PDG Schwinn's were that they were not the
Pretty
Damn Good that the name suggests, they were still good
bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was
entirely satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only
reason I
parted with them was to get better paint since a D&D
paintjob
was about as expensive as a new bike. And at the time I
was
riding Mercian they used a paint job that would scratch
if you
looked sideways at them.

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/
Nothing looks better than nice lugged brazed frame. Even
better if
it's Ti...
Tell us about these lugged and brazed titanium frames. You
should be
a little clearer on your responses. I'm sure you know
better than
what you wrote.

Look, I can fantasize as much as the next man.

You *could* braze titanium though? Wouldn't it just have to
be in an oxygen free environment?


What would you suggest for a filler material? Not bronze.

ISTR there are silver alloys and fluxes for brazing Ti. Maybe?

At any rate you're not in a TIG Argon environment so you
would have to return to the argon sealed booth of 40 years
ago. Futzy but doable. Open air braze on Ti is out, the
material is very reactive with a self destructive streak.

Then there's metalworking. Ti is famously difficult to work
and tooling for stamped and welded lugs would be
prohibitive. It may be possible to weld up tube sections in
the way that Cinelli and Pogliaghi welded oversized joints
for track tandems. Again, possible but arduous.
Aesthetically, you're still looking at a TIG joint on the
lug instead of the tube itself.

At the end of that where's the gain? Welded titanium is a
well advanced technology, cheap, strong, simple. What would
a brazed sleeve Ti frame offer?

Actually, there were some successful welded-Ti-lug designs
around 1990 with carbon tubes glued in.

https://www.cxmagazine.com/tbt-john-...oga-eric-rumpf

Something like that maybe, Ti tubes glued in Ti sleeves?
lugged but not brazed.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Op dinsdag 19 januari 2021 om 19:08:25 UTC+1 schreef AMuzi:
On 1/19/2021 11:48 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/01/2021 20:21, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 6:45:41 AM UTC-8, Tosspot
wrote:
On 17/01/2021 21:16, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 11:57:14 AM UTC-8, Tom
Kunich
wrote:
I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of
business but
I see that not only are they still in business but they
are
building a very wide variety of bikes. Now my
experience with
the Waterford/PDG Schwinn's were that they were not the
Pretty
Damn Good that the name suggests, they were still good
bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was
entirely satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only
reason I
parted with them was to get better paint since a D&D
paintjob
was about as expensive as a new bike. And at the time I
was
riding Mercian they used a paint job that would scratch
if you
looked sideways at them.

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/
Nothing looks better than nice lugged brazed frame. Even
better if
it's Ti...
Tell us about these lugged and brazed titanium frames. You
should be
a little clearer on your responses. I'm sure you know
better than
what you wrote.

Look, I can fantasize as much as the next man.

You *could* braze titanium though? Wouldn't it just have to
be in an oxygen free environment?

What would you suggest for a filler material? Not bronze.

ISTR there are silver alloys and fluxes for brazing Ti. Maybe?

At any rate you're not in a TIG Argon environment so you
would have to return to the argon sealed booth of 40 years
ago. Futzy but doable. Open air braze on Ti is out, the
material is very reactive with a self destructive streak.

Then there's metalworking. Ti is famously difficult to work
and tooling for stamped and welded lugs would be
prohibitive. It may be possible to weld up tube sections in
the way that Cinelli and Pogliaghi welded oversized joints
for track tandems. Again, possible but arduous.
Aesthetically, you're still looking at a TIG joint on the
lug instead of the tube itself.

At the end of that where's the gain? Welded titanium is a
well advanced technology, cheap, strong, simple. What would
a brazed sleeve Ti frame offer?

Actually, there were some successful welded-Ti-lug designs
around 1990 with carbon tubes glued in.

https://www.cxmagazine.com/tbt-john-...oga-eric-rumpf

Something like that maybe, Ti tubes glued in Ti sleeves?
lugged but not brazed.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I take a nicely welded Ti frame over all the lugged crap any time. It is honest and leaves no room for hiding **** ups and/or incompetence. People that paint Ti frames should be shot at site.

Lou

On 1/19/2021 1:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/19/2021 11:48 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 18/01/2021 20:21, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 6:45:41 AM UTC-8, Tosspot
wrote:
On 17/01/2021 21:16, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 11:57:14 AM UTC-8, Tom
Kunich
wrote:
I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of
business but
I see that not only are they still in business but they
are
building a very wide variety of bikes. Now my
experience with
the Waterford/PDG Schwinn's were that they were not the
Pretty
Damn Good that the name suggests, they were still good
bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was
entirely satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only
reason I
parted with them was to get better paint since a D&D
paintjob
was about as expensive as a new bike. And at the time I
was
riding Mercian they used a paint job that would scratch
if you
looked sideways at them.

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/
Nothing looks better than nice lugged brazed frame. Even
better if
it's Ti...
Tell us about these lugged and brazed titanium frames. You
should be
a little clearer on your responses. I'm sure you know
better than
what you wrote.

Look, I can fantasize as much as the next man.

You *could* braze titanium though?Â* Wouldn't it just have to
be in an oxygen free environment?


What would you suggest for a filler material? Not bronze.

ISTR there are silver alloys and fluxes for brazing Ti. Maybe?

At any rate you're not in a TIG Argon environment so you would have to
return to the argon sealed booth of 40 years ago. Futzy but doable. Open
air braze on Ti is out, the material is very reactive with a self
destructive streak.

Then there's metalworking. Ti is famously difficult to work and tooling
for stamped and welded lugs would be prohibitive. It may be possible to
weld up tube sections in the way that Cinelli and Pogliaghi welded
oversized joints for track tandems.Â* Again, possible but arduous.
Aesthetically, you're still looking at a TIG joint on the lug instead of
the tube itself.

At the end of that where's the gain? Welded titanium is a well advanced
technology, cheap, strong, simple. What would a brazed sleeve Ti frame
offer?

It's obvious the only benefit would be aesthetic. So the solution would
be faux lugs glued glued in place to cover the welds! Stick on prettiness!

Not much different than rear spoilers on an econobox car, tattoos and
nose rings, "team" jerseys on MAMILS, etc.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 18:48:34 +0100, Tosspot scribed:

On 18/01/2021 20:21, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 6:45:41 AM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 17/01/2021 21:16, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 11:57:14 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of business but I see
that not only are they still in business but they are building a
very wide variety of bikes. Now my experience with the Waterford/PDG
Schwinn's were that they were not the Pretty Damn Good that the name
suggests, they were still good bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was entirely
satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only reason I parted with
them was to get better paint since a D&D paintjob was about as
expensive as a new bike. And at the time I was riding Mercian they
used a paint job that would scratch if you looked sideways at them.

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/
Nothing looks better than nice lugged brazed frame. Even better if
it's Ti...
Tell us about these lugged and brazed titanium frames. You should be a
little clearer on your responses. I'm sure you know better than what
you wrote.

Look, I can fantasize as much as the next man.

You *could* braze titanium though? Wouldn't it just have to be in an
oxygen free environment?

Err,, it might be my lac of life experience, but I've never come across
free standing titanium. As far as i know, it s sold as a minor additive
in various grades of steel tubing, jst like chromium in stainless tubing.

So, given the chance, I'd swing a brazing torch onto it.

Now, magnesium, different matter.

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 18:48:34 +0100, Tosspot wrote:

On 18/01/2021 20:21, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 6:45:41 AM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 17/01/2021 21:16, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 11:57:14 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich
wrote:
I was of the opinion that Mercian had gone out of business but
I see that not only are they still in business but they are
building a very wide variety of bikes. Now my experience with
the Waterford/PDG Schwinn's were that they were not the Pretty
Damn Good that the name suggests, they were still good bikes.

But my experience with Mercians was in every case I was
entirely satisfied with the bikes. Probably the only reason I
parted with them was to get better paint since a D&D paintjob
was about as expensive as a new bike. And at the time I was
riding Mercian they used a paint job that would scratch if you
looked sideways at them.

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/
Nothing looks better than nice lugged brazed frame. Even better if
it's Ti...
Tell us about these lugged and brazed titanium frames. You should be
a little clearer on your responses. I'm sure you know better than
what you wrote.

Look, I can fantasize as much as the next man.

You *could* braze titanium though? Wouldn't it just have to be in an
oxygen free environment?

I've never done it but from what I read titanium brazing must be done
in a vacuum or chlorine gas atmosphere as at higher temperature as
titanium is reactive to oxygen absorption and hydrogen absorption. Or
one could use an electric arc in an argon atmosphere, as in TIG
welding.
--
Cheers,

John B.