Ramming Critical Mass.

Keitht wrote:
Doug wrote:

Why does no one here acknowledge the fact that there is serious
competition for road space and where the fastest usually win? Instead
of trying to do something about this nasty state of affairs we are
told to always 'turn the other cheek' and assume personal
responsibility and sometimes blame for being put at serious risk by
others.



Not 'the fastest' that wins.
The fastest usually buggers things up by rushing around.

Whether cycling or driving I find a laid-back attitude often gets me
there almost as quick as the speedmerchants but I don't arrive in a pool
of sweat or with my body oscillating with a surfiet of Red
Bull/Monster/Relentless etc.

Cohen The Barbarian summed it up when the Horde was faced with a bunch
of Ninjas -- 'all that rushing around counts for nothing, it's the
timing that counts - epecially at my age'
(would search book for accurate quote but can't be arsed)


The reason no-one falls for the 'everybody is doing it' blather is that
everyone isn't.
It's easier to spot those who are always in a rush, have to get to the
front, think everyone else on the road is **** for not behaving like Mr
Toad.
They are the minority -- and it's the same for ALL forms of transport,
not the sole pastime of drivers.


'turning the other cheek' is done by ALL transport users.
queue jumpers,
train or coach seat grabbers,
cyclists,
drivers,
walkers.
All show the same symptoms of being unable to pause or chill a bit.
While the majority just watch and go 'pillock' and carry on with thier
lives.
You forgot to include those that greet the screech of aircraft tyre
hitting tarmac with a sudden need to find their bag and stand up in the
aisle.

Keitht wrote:
mileburner wrote:

This is basic road skill. Yesterday I had a lorry about to pull in
front of me from a turning on the right. He waited, but I waved him to
go. If I hadn't the same lorry would have been on my tail a bit
further on trying to get past.


Confuses them at first but happy to see cyclists aknowledging that not
all truck drivers are murderers of prostitutes.

True, some are murders who are then "treated for shock" when they
realise they have been caught.

Even better when you are aware they need space to pull out but none of
the car drivers recognise the need for more space.

if they need more space to pull out than the lane allows then maybe they
shoudn't be on that road?
The drivers often
grin and wave back as the only person who can see what's required to
keep traffic moving is the cyclist.
And later down the road, same truck driver may well wait a second or two
to let you pass as there is room for you but not the cars.

or might just sweep past you again afterwards and then turn left.... and
then "get treated for shock"

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Keitht wrote:

Confuses them at first but happy to see cyclists aknowledging that not
all truck drivers are murderers of prostitutes.

My dad got a taxi today. In conversation, it came up that the cabbie's
planning to do the Dunwich Dynamo on saturday.

You know that Star Trek episode where Kirk asks the computer to define
love or something and it explodes? That was largely how my brain reacted.

tom

--
How's it going to end?

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Keitht wrote:

Confuses them at first but happy to see cyclists aknowledging that not
all truck drivers are murderers of prostitutes.

My dad got a taxi today. In conversation, it came up that the cabbie's
planning to do the Dunwich Dynamo on saturday.

You know that Star Trek episode where Kirk asks the computer to define
love or something and it explodes? That was largely how my brain reacted.

tom
I've known two club cyclists who were black cab drivers. Nice blokes too
(except one of them stole my girlfriend).


--
Roger Thorpe

....you had the whole damn thing all wrong/
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays...

On Jul 1, 11:34*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Keitht wrote:
Confuses them at first but happy to see cyclists aknowledging that not
all truck drivers are murderers of prostitutes.

My dad got a taxi today. In conversation, it came up that the cabbie's
planning to do the Dunwich Dynamo on saturday.

You know that Star Trek episode where Kirk asks the computer to define
love or something and it explodes? That was largely how my brain reacted.


I once had a great conversation at some particularly slow lights
with
a cabbie about how he'd done The Knowledge on his bike and really
missed
the amount of riding that that entailed.

Also - everyone I meet seems to be doing the Dynamo for the first
time
this year. I'm almost persuaded to give it another go...

Roger Thorpe wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Keitht wrote:

Confuses them at first but happy to see cyclists aknowledging that not
all truck drivers are murderers of prostitutes.

My dad got a taxi today. In conversation, it came up that the cabbie's
planning to do the Dunwich Dynamo on saturday.

You know that Star Trek episode where Kirk asks the computer to define
love or something and it explodes? That was largely how my brain reacted.

tom
I've known two club cyclists who were black cab drivers. Nice blokes too
(except one of them stole my girlfriend).

there is a least one black cab driver in my local club may be more.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Capital to Coast
www.justgiving.com/rogermerriman

On 1 July, 07:40, "Brimstone" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On 30 June, 18:43, "Brimstone" wrote:
Bumble Bee wrote:
* francis wrote:
Perhaps there is a case for treating other road users the way they
treat you.

Treating other people how they treat you is a vengeful, spiteful
attitude that will ultimately lead to hermitage or misanthropy. Live
and let live, even if others would sooner live and let die. Life's
too short.

Why would anyone be unpleasant to someone who has shown them
consideration and courtesy?

Why does no one here acknowledge the fact that there is serious
competition for road space and where the fastest usually win?

I agree that road space is limited but in what sense do the fastest usually
win? Not everyone competes in the traffic lights grand prix Doug.

Instead
of trying to do something about this nasty state of affairs

Any suggestions Doug?

Where to begin? Stiffer penalties for causing death or serious injury
with a vehicle-weapon. An end to victim blaming. All speed limits to
be reduced. Pedestrians and cyclists to be treated as equals on our
public roads but with special laws which take account of their
relative lack of danger to other road users, aka lower momentum than
motorised vehicles.

we are
told to always 'turn the other cheek' and assume personal
responsibility and sometimes blame for being put at serious risk by
others.

We all have to take responsibility for our own safety Doug, and sometimes
that means giving way to someone who has made a mistake. Such a situation
might include slowing up slightly to allow a car to cross one's path where
the driver hasn't seen us. Surely it's better to slow up slightly then end
up in hospital with injuries and a damaged bike?

But how do you know that a driver hasn't seen you or is about to make
a mistake? It would mean giving way to everyone about to cross one's
path and hardly moving at all. Even then you are not safe from being
rammed while waiting. Every road user takes a calculated risk with the
most vulnerable being most at risk. Instead of always trying to blame
the victim those who dangerously ram them with their vehicle-weapon
should always be blamed instead.

--
Critical Mass London
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Whose streets? Our streets".

Doug wrote:
On 1 July, 07:40, "Brimstone" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On 30 June, 18:43, "Brimstone" wrote:
Bumble Bee wrote:
* francis wrote:
Perhaps there is a case for treating other road users the way they
treat you.
Treating other people how they treat you is a vengeful, spiteful
attitude that will ultimately lead to hermitage or misanthropy. Live
and let live, even if others would sooner live and let die. Life's
too short.
Why would anyone be unpleasant to someone who has shown them
consideration and courtesy?
Why does no one here acknowledge the fact that there is serious
competition for road space and where the fastest usually win?
I agree that road space is limited but in what sense do the fastest usually
win? Not everyone competes in the traffic lights grand prix Doug.

Instead
of trying to do something about this nasty state of affairs
Any suggestions Doug?

Where to begin? Stiffer penalties for causing death or serious injury
with a vehicle-weapon. An end to victim blaming. All speed limits to
be reduced. Pedestrians and cyclists to be treated as equals on our
public roads but with special laws which take account of their
relative lack of danger to other road users, aka lower momentum than
motorised vehicles.
we are
told to always 'turn the other cheek' and assume personal
responsibility and sometimes blame for being put at serious risk by
others.
We all have to take responsibility for our own safety Doug, and sometimes
that means giving way to someone who has made a mistake. Such a situation
might include slowing up slightly to allow a car to cross one's path where
the driver hasn't seen us. Surely it's better to slow up slightly then end
up in hospital with injuries and a damaged bike?

But how do you know that a driver hasn't seen you or is about to make
a mistake? It would mean giving way to everyone about to cross one's
path and hardly moving at all. Even then you are not safe from being
rammed while waiting. Every road user takes a calculated risk with the
most vulnerable being most at risk. Instead of always trying to blame
the victim those who dangerously ram them with their vehicle-weapon
should always be blamed instead.

--
Critical Mass London
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Whose streets? Our streets".




Doug, in 43 yrs,I haven't "rammed" anyone.

Bod

Doug wrote:
On 1 July, 07:40, "Brimstone" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On 30 June, 18:43, "Brimstone"
wrote:
Bumble Bee wrote:
* francis wrote:
Perhaps there is a case for treating other road users the way
they treat you.

Treating other people how they treat you is a vengeful, spiteful
attitude that will ultimately lead to hermitage or misanthropy.
Live and let live, even if others would sooner live and let die.
Life's too short.

Why would anyone be unpleasant to someone who has shown them
consideration and courtesy?

Why does no one here acknowledge the fact that there is serious
competition for road space and where the fastest usually win?

I agree that road space is limited but in what sense do the fastest
usually win? Not everyone competes in the traffic lights grand prix
Doug.

Instead
of trying to do something about this nasty state of affairs

Any suggestions Doug?

Where to begin? Stiffer penalties for causing death or serious injury
with a vehicle-weapon. An end to victim blaming. All speed limits to
be reduced. Pedestrians and cyclists to be treated as equals on our
public roads but with special laws which take account of their
relative lack of danger to other road users, aka lower momentum than
motorised vehicles.

What has any of that got todo with resolving the lack of road space Doug?

we are
told to always 'turn the other cheek' and assume personal
responsibility and sometimes blame for being put at serious risk by
others.

We all have to take responsibility for our own safety Doug, and
sometimes that means giving way to someone who has made a mistake.
Such a situation might include slowing up slightly to allow a car to
cross one's path where the driver hasn't seen us. Surely it's better
to slow up slightly then end up in hospital with injuries and a
damaged bike?

But how do you know that a driver hasn't seen you or is about to make
a mistake?

You claim to have been a car driver, did you not learn to watch other people
and see if they're liable to cause you a problem?

It would mean giving way to everyone about to cross one's
path and hardly moving at all. Even then you are not safe from being
rammed while waiting. Every road user takes a calculated risk with the
most vulnerable being most at risk. Instead of always trying to blame
the victim those who dangerously ram them with their vehicle-weapon
should always be blamed instead.

You said in a different thread that you are not stupid since giving up
driving. Except for the third sentence that little rant shows otherwise.

On 3 July, 09:16, Doug wrote:
On 1 July, 07:40, "Brimstone" wrote:



Doug wrote:
On 30 June, 18:43, "Brimstone" wrote:
Bumble Bee wrote:
* francis wrote:
Perhaps there is a case for treating other road users the way they
treat you.

Treating other people how they treat you is a vengeful, spiteful
attitude that will ultimately lead to hermitage or misanthropy. Live
and let live, even if others would sooner live and let die. Life's
too short.

Why would anyone be unpleasant to someone who has shown them
consideration and courtesy?

Why does no one here acknowledge the fact that there is serious
competition for road space and where the fastest usually win?

I agree that road space is limited but in what sense do the fastest usually
win? Not everyone competes in the traffic lights grand prix Doug.

Instead
of trying to do something about this nasty state of affairs

Any suggestions Doug?

Where to begin? Stiffer penalties for causing death or serious injury
with a vehicle-weapon.

You of course mean if they are to blame don't you.

An end to victim blaming.

If they are blameless.
All speed limits to
be reduced. Pedestrians and cyclists to be treated as equals on our
public roads but with special laws which take account of their
relative lack of danger to other road users, aka lower momentum than
motorised vehicles.

If they are to be treated as equals, surely there should be no special
laws?


we are
told to always 'turn the other cheek' and assume personal
responsibility and sometimes blame for being put at serious risk by
others.

We all have to take responsibility for our own safety Doug, and sometimes
that means giving way to someone who has made a mistake. Such a situation
might include slowing up slightly to allow a car to cross one's path where
the driver hasn't seen us. Surely it's better to slow up slightly then end
up in hospital with injuries and a damaged bike?

But how do you know that a driver hasn't seen you or is about to make
a mistake?

How would you know that about any road user?

It would mean giving way to everyone about to cross one's
path and hardly moving at all.

Glad you have got that message.

Even then you are not safe from being
rammed while waiting.

I have been a road user for many years, & have been a driver for over
40 years, I have only ever seen one delibrate ramming & that was by a
car trying to escape the police.
Every road user takes a calculated risk with the
most vulnerable being most at risk. Instead of always trying to blame
the victim

Nobody on theses NGs has blamed a blameless victim.

those who dangerously ram them with their vehicle-weapon
should always be blamed instead.

Intentional ramming shuld indeed atract blame (but maybe not all the
blame)


--
Critical Mass Londonhttp://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Whose streets? Our streets".- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Francis