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Senior Olympics
On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:57:15 -0800, "Child"
wrote: Thanks Curtis - you apparently know far more about my religious history than i do! Between working at the Washington DC Jewish Community Center and sharing the middle space at the Unitarian Universalist Church with the mixed-marriage Jews, I sometimes think I'll need to learn to speak Yiddish or Hebrew soon. Trying to find out which is easier, just in case. OTOH, its great taking ALL the holidays off. With that and four weeks vacation, my wife is surprised when I actually go in to work... Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
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#42
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Senior Olympics
"Child" wrote in message ... "Edward Dolan" wrote in message ... "Child" wrote in message ... "Edward Dolan" wrote in message ... If it exists, that shoots Beth's idea that words don't much matter and that we can treat them with contempt by writing them anyway we want without observing the conventions. Nope, thats not my idea at all. My idea is that the ability to express ideas on usenet isnt' restricted by your ideas about what "good writing" They are not my ideas but the ideas of all minimally educated persons who believe that culture counts for something in this world. I am certainly minimally eduated, and its not my idea. Evidentally, you need to stop speaking for ALL minimally educated persons, because some of us find you full of ****. A minimal education is not enough as you prove every time you post to this group. It is also necessary to have some culture to go along with the education. But certain types of Jews are classically famous for being vulgar and crude. I see that you like to fulfill that stereotype. Actually, I detect that you are writing somewhat better now than formerly. All you need do is mind a few p's and q's and you will almost be up to the mark. You do not ever want to be where slugger is at, do you? I have no idea who or what "slugger" is, so maybe. That is because you are a women and like all women have only very narrow interests. You do not know what is going on on this newsgroup other than what strikes your particular fancy of the moment. Do a search under "slugger" and check out the way he writes. It will only take you a minute to decide whether or not you want to be like him. -- Regards, Ed Dolan - Minnesota |
#43
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Senior Olympics
"Rasmus M?ller" wrote in message om... "Edward Dolan" wrote in message ... "Tom Sherman" wrote in message ... Edward Dolan wrote: ... Do you not recall what I said about the Jews being the people of the Book. There is nothing in that Book except words. Without the Book, the Jews would most likely not even exist today. They would have gone extinct long ago with all those other ancient peoples.... snip I remember a phrase from my Bible studies in another lifetime (we Catholics are not big on the Bible) about the importance of the word. I think it went something like this: "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." I wonder if I am just imagining this or if it exists somewhere in the Bible. If it exists, that shoots Beth's idea that words don't much matter and that we can treat them with contempt by writing them anyway we want without observing the conventions. Hello, The passage is the beginning of the Gospel of St. John. As such, Jews (except the few christian ones) are not likely to recognize it to speak with any authority to them. Exactly so! I looked for it in Genesis but completely forgot about the Gospels. What we Catholics know about the Bible is not much. We rely on our Church more than we do Biblical studies. Btw. I believe that for many centuries the Torah was passed on orally, and the Jews would thus train and value exact memorizing very much. It was finally written down in Greek in Alexandria in Egypt, because the large Jewish community there did not speak Hebrew. I find that hard to believe. Most oral traditions are almost always lost with the passage of time and events. Surely, the Torah (the Old Testament) must always have existed in written form from very ancient times. -- Regards, Ed Dolan - Minnesota |
#44
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Senior Olympics
"Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message ... Edward Dolan wrote: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." On 5 Aug 2004 10:47:52 -0700, (Rasmus M?ller) wrote: The passage is the beginning of the Gospel of St. John. As such, Jews (except the few christian ones) are not likely to recognize it to speak with any authority to them. And in most editions it is capitalized and refers to use of Word back to its early mystical force. Far more likely to be akin to the awe of the spoken references to the mystical than any written source. You are undoubtedly right about that. The spoken word long preceded the written word in all cultures. Very many cultures never developed any written word at all. Interestingly, the Word is often considered to also be a feminine aspect of the Trinity (in the case of faiths believing in the Trinity) or God nature, for those either Unitarian or pantheisitic. The passage mentioned is a primary passage of the Wisdom Goddess or the Sophia Tradition. FWIW, it also has counterparts in Jewish mystical thought, although it splits the equivalent of the Word into Chokhman, Binah and Da'at, whch are respectively masculine, feminine and the child. The first is the unknowable source of wisdom, the second the receptacle (and transmitter) of wisdom and the third is knowledge. I personally would equate the second most easily with the Word in most Trinitarian thought and with the Greek Wisdom concept, but not so much that I would argue the point against anyone that seemed to have spent more time on the subject... I am convinced that has never been more than a handful of people in the entire history of the world who have ever understood the Trinity. Maybe you have to be Greek (Hellenic) to know what any of this is about. The only way we Irish Catholics can understand it is by way of reference to the three leaf clover. So, yes, some Jews would certainly be able to argue the concept with some degree of authority. Also, FWIW, much of the above, especially the Jewish Kabbalah, were primarily oral tradition - to refer back to another part of the thread, if I understood what the discussion was about. All of the above is very interesting information to say the least. I have never delved into any of this as religious conceptions (like Greek myths) do not really interest me at all. It is all one and the same to me. However, scientific studies have shown rather conclusively that it would not be possible for us humans to even have any thoughts in our heads if it weren't for language. Language is all about words and yes, the Word is that important. We would not even be human without it. We would be apes with primitive feelings at best. The great forbidden experiment in sociology would be to take a child and raise him isolated from all other human contact and most particularly from human language and see how he turns out - a sort of "wild child" type of thing. It has never been done in full measure in the entire history of mankind. Beth is treating the written word very casually. I do not believe this is in the Jewish tradition at all. To spend enormous amounts of time arguing about how to interpret written words bespeaks a great reverence for those written words. That is why I call the Jews the people of the Book. Furthermore, it is well known that Jews value education and the arts above all others. This may relate to their exclusion from many other fields of endeavor due to their being persecuted down through the ages, but it may very well relate to the supreme importance they have always attached to their sacred writings. Frankly, I do not understand a Jew who would denigrate speaking, reading and writing well. Beth is an enigma to me. -- Regards, Ed Dolan - Minnesota |
#45
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Senior Olympics
Edward Dolan wrote:
... Jesus Christ! A Jew who does not even capitalize Jew! A rather odd exclamatory phrase in this context, no? -- Tom Sherman – Quad City Area |
#46
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Senior Olympics
"Edward Dolan" wrote in message ... "Child" wrote in message ... "Edward Dolan" wrote in message ... Traditionally, jewish religious education was all about ARGUING VERBALLY about the torah. Its as simple as that. Its not about writing. Its about verbal debate. There has got to be something wrong with the way your brain works. Actually, i think its that you just aren't getting it. You are arguing verbally with one another about the written word as it exists in your sacred texts. Without the written word, none of you would have anything to say to one another and, in fact, the Jews as a people would not even exist. It is your sacred texts that have ensured the survival of the Jews down though history. You tell me why you think you are still here as a people and the Philistines are not? Without the written word and the importance that the Jews have given it they would not have survived down through the ages. You would have gone the way of the Philistines. Yes, Jews argue about how to interpret the Torah. But its the ability to form that verbal argument thats revered - its what was considered education traditionally. No Torah, no verbal arguments, no glue holding the Jews together, no Jews. The Torah (the WRITTEN WORD) and the reverence in which it is held is the key. Like I said, the Jews are the people of the Book. Elementary, my dear Watson! They disagree. There are many professional writers who have conversational, informal styles, yet they still write. How could that possibly be, Eddie? Mark Twain could do this, although I find his style tiring in the extreme. A little bit of it goes a long ways. The rest of us should never attempt it. Leave the "yokelisms" to the yokels. Informal styles eventually soon pale, become boring and finally unreadable. I like yokelisms. Keeps me awake. Mark Twain is a good "common" writer, isn't he? I thought you said I didn't know how to write, eddie? If I thought you did not know how to write, I would not bother with you the same way I do not bother with slugger. I know that you do know how to write but that you refuse to do so for all the wrong reasons. Funny, because just the other day you wanted me to prove I can write. LOL, and what would yours think about you trying to be "boss of the internet"? Your imaginary standards aren't reality. I send these messages of mine to my brother and sister for their amusement and education. Maybe you should do likewise. You might be shocked at what your parents and your brother think of how you are conducting yourself here. My mother, brother and I converse via email frequently. Its informal, full of half sentences. No need to type full ones. But your mother does not write like that when it is going to be seen by outsiders (the public). We both know that don't we. you mean, "We both know that, don't we?" I think my informal style is rubbing off, or you have been drinking! And you aren't "the public" or rather - this isn't "my public" - this is my community of pals! You know as much about jews as you do about women, Eddie. You do not know WHO you are or WHERE you came from. A short stay in Israel would soon enlighten you. I don't know which is worse, a self-hating Jew or just an ignorant Jew. You have much to look forward to in life in the way of getting an education. I have spent many months in Israel. My brother lived there for about 6 years. Jesus Christ! A Jew who does not even capitalize Jew! Thats deliberate. I am not interested in organized religion. |
#47
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Senior Olympics
"Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message ... On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:57:15 -0800, "Child" wrote: Thanks Curtis - you apparently know far more about my religious history than i do! Between working at the Washington DC Jewish Community Center and sharing the middle space at the Unitarian Universalist Church with the mixed-marriage Jews, I sometimes think I'll need to learn to speak Yiddish or Hebrew soon. Trying to find out which is easier, just in case. Unitarians are pretty cool. Yiddish is much funner than hebrew. OTOH, its great taking ALL the holidays off. With that and four weeks vacation, my wife is surprised when I actually go in to work... LOL, I love non-profits! |
#48
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Senior Olympics
"Edward Dolan" wrote in message ... I am certainly minimally eduated, and its not my idea. Evidentally, you need to stop speaking for ALL minimally educated persons, because some of us find you full of ****. A minimal education is not enough as you prove every time you post to this group. It is also necessary to have some culture to go along with the education. But certain types of Jews are classically famous for being vulgar and crude. I see that you like to fulfill that stereotype. Vulgarity is part of the yiddish language. Actually, I detect that you are writing somewhat better now than formerly. All you need do is mind a few p's and q's and you will almost be up to the mark. You do not ever want to be where slugger is at, do you? I have no idea who or what "slugger" is, so maybe. That is because you are a women and like all women have only very narrow interests. You do not know what is going on on this newsgroup other than what strikes your particular fancy of the moment. Do a search under "slugger" and check out the way he writes. It will only take you a minute to decide whether or not you want to be like him. I am having trouble finding time to bother with you, let alone slugger. |
#49
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Senior Olympics
Rasmus Møller wrote:
... Rasmus Møller (yet another dane... Yikes, they're spreading! P.S. Ever hear of a Danish Trice Micro owner with an unusual fascination with rubber bands? -- Tom Sherman – 50% Danish |
#50
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Senior Olympics
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
... OTOH, its great taking ALL the holidays off. With that and four weeks vacation... Vacation? I am not familiar with this concept. -- Tom Sherman – Quad City Area |
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