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  #41  
Old August 5th 04, 08:11 PM
Curtis L. Russell
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Default Senior Olympics

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:57:15 -0800, "Child"
wrote:

Thanks Curtis - you apparently know far more about my religious history than
i do!


Between working at the Washington DC Jewish Community Center and
sharing the middle space at the Unitarian Universalist Church with the
mixed-marriage Jews, I sometimes think I'll need to learn to speak
Yiddish or Hebrew soon. Trying to find out which is easier, just in
case.

OTOH, its great taking ALL the holidays off. With that and four weeks
vacation, my wife is surprised when I actually go in to work...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
Ads
  #42  
Old August 6th 04, 12:01 AM
Edward Dolan
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"Child" wrote in message
...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"Child" wrote in message
...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

If it exists, that shoots Beth's idea that words don't much matter

and
that
we can treat them with contempt by writing them anyway we want

without
observing the conventions.

Nope, thats not my idea at all. My idea is that the ability to

express
ideas on usenet isnt' restricted by your ideas about what "good

writing"

They are not my ideas but the ideas of all minimally educated persons

who
believe that culture counts for something in this world.


I am certainly minimally eduated, and its not my idea. Evidentally, you
need to stop speaking for ALL minimally educated persons, because some of

us
find you full of ****.


A minimal education is not enough as you prove every time you post to this
group. It is also necessary to have some culture to go along with the
education. But certain types of Jews are classically famous for being vulgar
and crude. I see that you like to fulfill that stereotype.

Actually, I detect that you are writing somewhat better now than

formerly.
All you need do is mind a few p's and q's and you will almost be up to

the
mark. You do not ever want to be where slugger is at, do you?




I have no idea who or what "slugger" is, so maybe.


That is because you are a women and like all women have only very narrow
interests. You do not know what is going on on this newsgroup other than
what strikes your particular fancy of the moment. Do a search under
"slugger" and check out the way he writes. It will only take you a minute
to decide whether or not you want to be like him.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota



  #43  
Old August 6th 04, 12:13 AM
Edward Dolan
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Posts: n/a
Default Senior Olympics


"Rasmus M?ller" wrote in message
om...
"Edward Dolan" wrote in message

...
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

...
Do you not recall what I said about the Jews being the people of the

Book.
There is nothing in that Book except words. Without the Book, the

Jews
would
most likely not even exist today. They would have gone extinct long

ago
with
all those other ancient peoples....


snip

I remember a phrase from my Bible studies in another lifetime (we

Catholics
are not big on the Bible) about the importance of the word. I think it

went
something like this: "In the beginning was the word, and the word was

with
God, and the word was God."

I wonder if I am just imagining this or if it exists somewhere in the

Bible.

If it exists, that shoots Beth's idea that words don't much matter and

that
we can treat them with contempt by writing them anyway we want without
observing the conventions.


Hello,

The passage is the beginning of the Gospel of St. John.
As such, Jews (except the few christian ones) are not likely
to recognize it to speak with any authority to them.


Exactly so! I looked for it in Genesis but completely forgot about the
Gospels. What we Catholics know about the Bible is not much. We rely on our
Church more than we do Biblical studies.

Btw. I believe that for many centuries the Torah was passed on
orally, and the Jews would thus train and value exact memorizing
very much. It was finally written down in Greek in Alexandria in
Egypt, because the large Jewish community there did not speak Hebrew.


I find that hard to believe. Most oral traditions are almost always lost
with the passage of time and events. Surely, the Torah (the Old Testament)
must always have existed in written form from very ancient times.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota


  #44  
Old August 6th 04, 01:09 AM
Edward Dolan
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Default Senior Olympics


"Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message
...

Edward Dolan wrote:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God."

On 5 Aug 2004 10:47:52 -0700, (Rasmus M?ller)
wrote:


The passage is the beginning of the Gospel of St. John.
As such, Jews (except the few christian ones) are not likely
to recognize it to speak with any authority to them.


And in most editions it is capitalized and refers to use of Word back
to its early mystical force. Far more likely to be akin to the awe of
the spoken references to the mystical than any written source.


You are undoubtedly right about that. The spoken word long preceded the
written word in all cultures. Very many cultures never developed any written
word at all.

Interestingly, the Word is often considered to also be a feminine
aspect of the Trinity (in the case of faiths believing in the Trinity)
or God nature, for those either Unitarian or pantheisitic. The passage
mentioned is a primary passage of the Wisdom Goddess or the Sophia
Tradition.

FWIW, it also has counterparts in Jewish mystical thought, although
it splits the equivalent of the Word into Chokhman, Binah and Da'at,
whch are respectively masculine, feminine and the child. The first is
the unknowable source of wisdom, the second the receptacle (and
transmitter) of wisdom and the third is knowledge. I personally would
equate the second most easily with the Word in most Trinitarian
thought and with the Greek Wisdom concept, but not so much that I
would argue the point against anyone that seemed to have spent more
time on the subject...


I am convinced that has never been more than a handful of people in the
entire history of the world who have ever understood the Trinity. Maybe you
have to be Greek (Hellenic) to know what any of this is about. The only way
we Irish Catholics can understand it is by way of reference to the three
leaf clover.


So, yes, some Jews would certainly be able to argue the concept with
some degree of authority. Also, FWIW, much of the above, especially
the Jewish Kabbalah, were primarily oral tradition - to refer back to
another part of the thread, if I understood what the discussion was
about.


All of the above is very interesting information to say the least. I have
never delved into any of this as religious conceptions (like Greek myths) do
not really interest me at all. It is all one and the same to me. However,
scientific studies have shown rather conclusively that it would not be
possible for us humans to even have any thoughts in our heads if it weren't
for language. Language is all about words and yes, the Word is that
important. We would not even be human without it. We would be apes with
primitive feelings at best.

The great forbidden experiment in sociology would be to take a child and
raise him isolated from all other human contact and most particularly from
human language and see how he turns out - a sort of "wild child" type of
thing. It has never been done in full measure in the entire history of
mankind.

Beth is treating the written word very casually. I do not believe this is in
the Jewish tradition at all. To spend enormous amounts of time arguing about
how to interpret written words bespeaks a great reverence for those written
words. That is why I call the Jews the people of the Book. Furthermore, it
is well known that Jews value education and the arts above all others. This
may relate to their exclusion from many other fields of endeavor due to
their being persecuted down through the ages, but it may very well relate to
the supreme importance they have always attached to their sacred writings.
Frankly, I do not understand a Jew who would denigrate speaking, reading and
writing well. Beth is an enigma to me.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota



  #45  
Old August 6th 04, 02:01 AM
Tom Sherman
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Posts: n/a
Default Senior Olympics

Edward Dolan wrote:

...
Jesus Christ! A Jew who does not even capitalize Jew!


A rather odd exclamatory phrase in this context, no?

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area


  #46  
Old August 6th 04, 02:01 AM
Child
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Senior Olympics


"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"Child" wrote in message
...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

Traditionally, jewish religious education was all about ARGUING

VERBALLY
about the torah. Its as simple as that. Its not about writing. Its

about
verbal debate.

There has got to be something wrong with the way your brain works.


Actually, i think its that you just aren't getting it.

You are arguing verbally with one another about the written word as it
exists in your sacred texts. Without the written word, none of you

would
have anything to say to one another and, in fact, the Jews as a people
would not even exist. It is your sacred texts that have ensured the

survival
of the Jews down though history. You tell me why you think you are

still
here as a people and the Philistines are not? Without the written word

and
the importance that the Jews have given it they would not have

survived
down
through the ages. You would have gone the way of the Philistines.



Yes, Jews argue about how to interpret the Torah. But its the ability

to
form that verbal argument thats revered - its what was considered

education
traditionally.


No Torah, no verbal arguments, no glue holding the Jews together, no Jews.
The Torah (the WRITTEN WORD) and the reverence in which it is held is the
key. Like I said, the Jews are the people of the Book. Elementary, my dear
Watson!



They disagree.

There are many professional writers who have conversational, informal
styles, yet they still write. How could that possibly be, Eddie?


Mark Twain could do this, although I find his style tiring in the extreme.

A
little bit of it goes a long ways. The rest of us should never attempt

it.
Leave the "yokelisms" to the yokels. Informal styles eventually soon pale,
become boring and finally unreadable.


I like yokelisms. Keeps me awake. Mark Twain is a good "common" writer,
isn't he?


I thought you said I didn't know how to write, eddie?


If I thought you did not know how to write, I would not bother with you

the
same way I do not bother with slugger. I know that you do know how to

write
but that you refuse to do so for all the wrong reasons.


Funny, because just the other day you wanted me to prove I can write.

LOL, and what would yours think about you trying to be "boss of the
internet"? Your imaginary standards aren't reality.

I send these messages of mine to my brother and sister for their

amusement
and education. Maybe you should do likewise. You might be shocked at

what
your parents and your brother think of how you are conducting yourself

here.

My mother, brother and I converse via email frequently. Its informal,

full
of half sentences. No need to type full ones.


But your mother does not write like that when it is going to be seen by
outsiders (the public). We both know that don't we.


you mean, "We both know that, don't we?"

I think my informal style is rubbing off, or you have been drinking!

And you aren't "the public" or rather - this isn't "my public" - this is my
community of pals!


You know as much about jews as you do about women, Eddie.


You do not know WHO you are or WHERE you came from. A short stay in Israel
would soon enlighten you. I don't know which is worse, a self-hating Jew

or
just an ignorant Jew. You have much to look forward to in life in the way

of
getting an education.


I have spent many months in Israel. My brother lived there for about 6
years.

Jesus Christ! A Jew who does not even capitalize Jew!



Thats deliberate. I am not interested in organized religion.


  #47  
Old August 6th 04, 02:02 AM
Child
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Senior Olympics


"Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:57:15 -0800, "Child"
wrote:

Thanks Curtis - you apparently know far more about my religious history

than
i do!


Between working at the Washington DC Jewish Community Center and
sharing the middle space at the Unitarian Universalist Church with the
mixed-marriage Jews, I sometimes think I'll need to learn to speak
Yiddish or Hebrew soon. Trying to find out which is easier, just in
case.



Unitarians are pretty cool. Yiddish is much funner than hebrew.

OTOH, its great taking ALL the holidays off. With that and four weeks
vacation, my wife is surprised when I actually go in to work...



LOL, I love non-profits!


  #48  
Old August 6th 04, 02:04 AM
Child
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Senior Olympics


"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

I am certainly minimally eduated, and its not my idea. Evidentally, you
need to stop speaking for ALL minimally educated persons, because some

of
us
find you full of ****.


A minimal education is not enough as you prove every time you post to this
group. It is also necessary to have some culture to go along with the
education. But certain types of Jews are classically famous for being

vulgar
and crude. I see that you like to fulfill that stereotype.


Vulgarity is part of the yiddish language.

Actually, I detect that you are writing somewhat better now than

formerly.
All you need do is mind a few p's and q's and you will almost be up to

the
mark. You do not ever want to be where slugger is at, do you?




I have no idea who or what "slugger" is, so maybe.


That is because you are a women and like all women have only very narrow
interests. You do not know what is going on on this newsgroup other than
what strikes your particular fancy of the moment. Do a search under
"slugger" and check out the way he writes. It will only take you a minute
to decide whether or not you want to be like him.


I am having trouble finding time to bother with you, let alone slugger.


  #49  
Old August 6th 04, 02:09 AM
Tom Sherman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Senior Olympics

Rasmus Møller wrote:

...
Rasmus Møller
(yet another dane...


Yikes, they're spreading!

P.S. Ever hear of a Danish Trice Micro owner with an unusual fascination
with rubber bands?

--
Tom Sherman – 50% Danish

  #50  
Old August 6th 04, 02:12 AM
Tom Sherman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Senior Olympics

Curtis L. Russell wrote:

...
OTOH, its great taking ALL the holidays off. With that and four weeks
vacation...


Vacation? I am not familiar with this concept.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

 




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