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Making America into Amsterdam



 
 
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  #241  
Old July 20th 18, 06:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-20 09:29, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 7:53:52 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/20/2018 5:04 AM, Duane wrote:
On 19/07/2018 8:31 PM, sms wrote:


snip

Perhaps they opened some new parking lots for those bike paths.
That has got to be it. As we recently learned "almost ALL trail
users in almost all areas use a car to haul their bike to the
trail." LOL. Usenet is always amusing.

I don't live out in the wilds with mountain lions and sabre
tooth tigers. I live in a city so the paths I'm talking about
are ALL close to parking. Like my driveway. Or my office
parking lot. Or the streets they parallel.


Yes, that's how the bike paths are where I am to. Occasionally, if
they pass through a park, there are parking lots. Many of the paths
are along creeks and rivers which had many parks next to them long
before a path was put in. The American River Path is one such
example. It's often convenient to put paths next to waterways
because the path can take advantage of the existing underpasses
under roads.

I was astounded to learn that "almost ALL trail users in almost
all areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail."

Seriously, some people need to learn that life exists outside their
own neighborhood, and that not all areas of the country are exactly
the same, so they don't make statements that generalize based on
their own limited experiences. Certainly people from Silicon Valley
and the Bay Area, that have never experienced the eastern U.S.,
experience culture shock when they go back east, or to the deep
south.


Sort of OT, but I was riding to work this morning through the South
Waterfront in a road surface bike lane, and two suburbanite young
women -- one with a baby jogger -- came running straight at me. I
said something to the effect of "what the f*** are you thinking?"
And then there was an older guy doing the same thing. This is like a
bike lane super-highway area and yet you have these clowns who just
don't get it. I'm seeing a lot of this lately -- it has become a
thing to run in the bike lane, and it is the same young hip
demographic for the most part. I'm getting tired of yelling at them.
We need some of Muzi's shooters to clean out the bike lanes.


An 800 lumen front light takes care of that. It triggers their flight
instincts. In bike lanes I always have it on. Rarely on bike paths or
MUP but when I encounter too many distracted or inconsiderate joggers I
turn it on. It makes a substantial difference.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #242  
Old July 20th 18, 06:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-20 05:04, Duane wrote:
On 19/07/2018 8:31 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/19/2018 4:07 PM, Duane wrote:

snip

Strange but I’ve noticed a lot of road bike commuters here the last
couple
of days. Maybe it’s the TDF or maybe it’s the less humid temps. We
have a couple new bike paths in the area and they’re smooth, wide and
well
designed. Amazing. Seem to be getting used...


Perhaps they opened some new parking lots for those bike paths. That
has got to be it. As we recently learned "almost ALL trail users in
almost all areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail." LOL.
Usenet is always amusing.


I don't live out in the wilds with mountain lions and sabre tooth
tigers. I live in a city so the paths I'm talking about are ALL close
to parking. Like my driveway. Or my office parking lot. Or the
streets they parallel.

On rec rides I'm usually heading out toward Ontario where the roads are
better and I pass a few bike paths and some of them have parking lots.
And the lots and paths are always full on weekends so I don't use them.
But I don't see the point of belittling people that do ride bikes only
for recreation. A lot of people start like that and find they like
cycling enough to use their bikes instead of their cars.



That is a good point. I found that people are less reluctant to do an
errand ride by bike when they feel fit enough so as not to arrive all
sweated through and huffing.

Then there is the health benefit. Regular riders have less
cardio-vascular problems and a lower chance to contract diabetes fatty
liver and all that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #243  
Old July 20th 18, 06:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 20/07/2018 10:53 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/20/2018 5:04 AM, Duane wrote:
On 19/07/2018 8:31 PM, sms wrote:


snip

Perhaps they opened some new parking lots for those bike paths. That
has got to be it. As we recently learned "almost ALL trail users in
almost all areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail." LOL.
Usenet is always amusing.


I don't live out in the wilds with mountain lions and sabre tooth
tigers.Â* I live in a city so the paths I'm talking about are ALL close
to parking.Â* Like my driveway.Â* Or my office parking lot.Â* Or the
streets they parallel.


Yes, that's how the bike paths are where I am to. Occasionally, if they
pass through a park, there are parking lots. Many of the paths are along
creeks and rivers which had many parks next to them long before a path
was put in. The American River Path is one such example. It's often
convenient to put paths next to waterways because the path can take
advantage of the existing underpasses under roads.


In Montreal, Hydro Quebec is the power company. They have main power
lines run on towers across the area. They had to access these so they
made a road. This is used as a bike path and maintained by Hydro.

I use these when they're not crowded. There are no parking lots or
anything like that. Just a separated 2 way bike path.

I was astounded to learn that "almost ALL trail users in almost all
areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail."

Seriously, some people need to learn that life exists outside their own
neighborhood, and that not all areas of the country are exactly the
same, so they don't make statements that generalize based on their own
limited experiences. Certainly people from Silicon Valley and the Bay
Area, that have never experienced the eastern U.S., experience culture
shock when they go back east, or to the deep south.


Montreal has a pretty large cycling presence. Not everywhere does.


  #244  
Old July 20th 18, 06:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-19 19:47, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 2:13:03 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 17:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 5:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 12:46, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 10:19:52 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

I've use rope to tow another rider. When the rear derailer
gets pretzeled out in the boonies the only other option
would be to hoof it and be late.

Or straighten the derailleur with your hand and ride on.
Again, we're talking about road bikes. With my last crash, I
not only straightened the derailleur enough to continue
riding, ...


In our case the outer shell of the derailer was no longer in
one piece, the chain was throughly mangled and IIRC one of the
derailer idlers had gone AWOL. That presents a minor
inconvenience.

The classic solution is to shorten the chain so it fits from
appropriate chainring to appropriate rear cog, bypassing the
derailleur. Start by finding a nail plus a rock, of course...


The bike frame even had those old-fashioned long-slotted drop-outs
with peg screws which would have made adjusting to a shorter chain
sans derailer easy. However, there was not enough non-mangled
stretch of chain left to do that. The whole chain was a mess. It
happens. Not to anyone around you, ever, of course.

[...]

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


And you couldn't use some of your myriad of tools and knowhow to
twist the chain enough to again be useful?


Maybe we could have banged it into submission with rocks or whatever but
it was just easier to take the rope and tow the other rider the 5mi.


Btw, if a person is severely dehydrated plain old water is NOT going
to get them mobile again = they need plenty of electrolytes too. Heat
exhaustion and/or heat stroke are a different kettle of fish and
usually require medical care. ...



Sure but on a trail in the boonies you can only do what your trunk
contents allow. Better than nothing. Main thing is to get that person
out of the sun and into a stable position. I also found that some people
do not recognize the first signs such as lightheadedness and they just
press on. It can take some convincing to tell them, hey, lets stop and
take a long break.

I do carry electrolyte, BTW, but usually drink that during the first
major break.

In National Parks I always made sure I informed rangers at the first
opportunity about the person and location, or if possible brought the
affected person there.


From the Mayo clinic regarding heat
stroke: "Heatstroke requires emergency treatment. Untreated
heatstroke can quickly damage your brain, heart, kidneys and muscles.
The damage worsens the longer treatment is delayed, increasing your
risk of serious complications or death."


Hence I carried a handheld ham radio transceiver on Wednesday's ride.
Didn't need it but better to be prepared. It weighs little. It was over
100F and we only met one other MTB rider. No horse riders and no hikers
except very close to the trail head.


Wow! I've never heard of anyone persisting in pursuing such a
dangerous activity (bicycling in your case) in such a dangerous
locale (your neck of the woods) for so long a time. You must live a
charmed life.


Huh? It ain't dangerous. Some people are simply careless, that's all.
Most of the folks I encountered who ran out of water or bonked were
hikers. So far I only bonked once, early after starting to ride again,
and I never want to experience that again. Of course that happened at
the farthest place from home and it took forever to schlepp myself back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #245  
Old July 20th 18, 06:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-19 20:40, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 12:39:10 PM UTC-4, duane wrote:
On 18/07/2018 12:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Duane writes:

On 17/07/2018 6:46 PM, Joerg wrote:

In the US we have a much nastier habit among weight weenie
cyclists who probably find the weight of a paper tissue
unbearable. So they don't carry any. When the nose gets
plugged they press a finger against one side and let off a
"snot rocket", then against the other for missile #2. I was
almost hit by one when pulling out to pass a cyclist. It's
disgusting.


Yes, I'm sure it's the weight of the tissue that prevents
these cyclists from using them. Maybe it's some guy coming up
behind them with the tunes blaring and the bright headlight
that invokes this behavior...

I would much rather see the occasional tiny blob of snot on the
road instead of blowing tissues. How and from where does one
fish a dry tissue when riding along? Think of the trees, for
God's sake.


Yeah, but you don't live "out there" where things get really
hairy. You're probably only riding in the pacific traffic on Comm
Ave...


Many times I think that Joerg sits at a brew pub and dreams up his
scenarios that he posts here. Geeze, even in Northern Ontario, Canada
off road touring on my MTB with 40 lbs or so of gear I don't have
near the problems he has.


This week the brewpub came along for the ride. Homemade IPA in a
pre-chilled stainless thermos. Out in the boonies that was priceless.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #246  
Old July 20th 18, 08:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 10:01:15 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-20 09:29, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 7:53:52 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/20/2018 5:04 AM, Duane wrote:
On 19/07/2018 8:31 PM, sms wrote:

snip

Perhaps they opened some new parking lots for those bike paths.
That has got to be it. As we recently learned "almost ALL trail
users in almost all areas use a car to haul their bike to the
trail." LOL. Usenet is always amusing.

I don't live out in the wilds with mountain lions and sabre
tooth tigers. I live in a city so the paths I'm talking about
are ALL close to parking. Like my driveway. Or my office
parking lot. Or the streets they parallel.

Yes, that's how the bike paths are where I am to. Occasionally, if
they pass through a park, there are parking lots. Many of the paths
are along creeks and rivers which had many parks next to them long
before a path was put in. The American River Path is one such
example. It's often convenient to put paths next to waterways
because the path can take advantage of the existing underpasses
under roads.

I was astounded to learn that "almost ALL trail users in almost
all areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail."

Seriously, some people need to learn that life exists outside their
own neighborhood, and that not all areas of the country are exactly
the same, so they don't make statements that generalize based on
their own limited experiences. Certainly people from Silicon Valley
and the Bay Area, that have never experienced the eastern U.S.,
experience culture shock when they go back east, or to the deep
south.


Sort of OT, but I was riding to work this morning through the South
Waterfront in a road surface bike lane, and two suburbanite young
women -- one with a baby jogger -- came running straight at me. I
said something to the effect of "what the f*** are you thinking?"
And then there was an older guy doing the same thing. This is like a
bike lane super-highway area and yet you have these clowns who just
don't get it. I'm seeing a lot of this lately -- it has become a
thing to run in the bike lane, and it is the same young hip
demographic for the most part. I'm getting tired of yelling at them.
We need some of Muzi's shooters to clean out the bike lanes.


An 800 lumen front light takes care of that. It triggers their flight
instincts. In bike lanes I always have it on. Rarely on bike paths or
MUP but when I encounter too many distracted or inconsiderate joggers I
turn it on. It makes a substantial difference.


A light would have done nothing -- on a flat, straight stretch with two riders headed straight at them in bright sunlight, it was just sneers. You think your cougars are dangerous, these two had no fear.

Also, if you blind them, then it turns into a confrontation -- and sometimes even if you don't blind them. I was running a 1 watt blinky on a MUP at dusk, and some dope with his dog running all over the place was complaining about my light. I about cartwheeled over his dog. Note the sign: "dogs on leashes." It does not say "no 1 watt blinkies." I'm absolutely sick of the dog owners ignoring the leash laws.

-- Jay Beattie.



  #247  
Old July 20th 18, 08:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-20 12:09, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 10:01:15 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-20 09:29, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 7:53:52 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/20/2018 5:04 AM, Duane wrote:
On 19/07/2018 8:31 PM, sms wrote:

snip

Perhaps they opened some new parking lots for those bike
paths. That has got to be it. As we recently learned
"almost ALL trail users in almost all areas use a car to
haul their bike to the trail." LOL. Usenet is always
amusing.

I don't live out in the wilds with mountain lions and sabre
tooth tigers. I live in a city so the paths I'm talking
about are ALL close to parking. Like my driveway. Or my
office parking lot. Or the streets they parallel.

Yes, that's how the bike paths are where I am to. Occasionally,
if they pass through a park, there are parking lots. Many of
the paths are along creeks and rivers which had many parks next
to them long before a path was put in. The American River Path
is one such example. It's often convenient to put paths next to
waterways because the path can take advantage of the existing
underpasses under roads.

I was astounded to learn that "almost ALL trail users in
almost all areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail."

Seriously, some people need to learn that life exists outside
their own neighborhood, and that not all areas of the country
are exactly the same, so they don't make statements that
generalize based on their own limited experiences. Certainly
people from Silicon Valley and the Bay Area, that have never
experienced the eastern U.S., experience culture shock when
they go back east, or to the deep south.

Sort of OT, but I was riding to work this morning through the
South Waterfront in a road surface bike lane, and two
suburbanite young women -- one with a baby jogger -- came running
straight at me. I said something to the effect of "what the f***
are you thinking?" And then there was an older guy doing the same
thing. This is like a bike lane super-highway area and yet you
have these clowns who just don't get it. I'm seeing a lot of this
lately -- it has become a thing to run in the bike lane, and it
is the same young hip demographic for the most part. I'm getting
tired of yelling at them. We need some of Muzi's shooters to
clean out the bike lanes.


An 800 lumen front light takes care of that. It triggers their
flight instincts. In bike lanes I always have it on. Rarely on bike
paths or MUP but when I encounter too many distracted or
inconsiderate joggers I turn it on. It makes a substantial
difference.


A light would have done nothing -- on a flat, straight stretch with
two riders headed straight at them in bright sunlight, ...



My light has a bit more oomph than one lone watt :-)


... it was just
sneers. You think your cougars are dangerous, these two had no fear.


Mountain lions fear humans except when they are desperately hungry. A
week ago one was seen a mile from here on my regular dog walking route
but (hopefully) has moved on.


Also, if you blind them, then it turns into a confrontation -- and
sometimes even if you don't blind them.



Surprisingly only one other guy (a road bike rider) ever complained
about the brightness of my light but I had accidentally left it on the
road setting, full power. I normally turn it off on bike paths.

The trick is to equip it with an aftermarket diffusor lens which also
results in much better illumination to the sides.


... I was running a 1 watt blinky
on a MUP at dusk, and some dope with his dog running all over the
place was complaining about my light. I about cartwheeled over his
dog. Note the sign: "dogs on leashes." It does not say "no 1 watt
blinkies." I'm absolutely sick of the dog owners ignoring the leash
laws.


They should keep them leashed but most of all short, not the leash being
all across the path becaus that's more dangerous than no leash. So far I
never had a problem with dogs except on singletrack where they got out
and chased me. Sometimes when I see a loose dog and the owner
frantically trying to pull him/her back I holler "Let it go" and
sometimes they do. Then we meet and greet. I like dogs and horses. Cats,
not so much. Squirrels and trueksy not at all. They must be the
stupidest animals on the planet, they can look at you and then run right
into the bike.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #248  
Old July 20th 18, 10:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Making America into Amsterdam

jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 10:01:15 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-20 09:29, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 7:53:52 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/20/2018 5:04 AM, Duane wrote:
On 19/07/2018 8:31 PM, sms wrote:

snip

Perhaps they opened some new parking lots for those bike paths.
That has got to be it. As we recently learned "almost ALL trail
users in almost all areas use a car to haul their bike to the
trail." LOL. Usenet is always amusing.

I don't live out in the wilds with mountain lions and sabre
tooth tigers. I live in a city so the paths I'm talking about
are ALL close to parking. Like my driveway. Or my office
parking lot. Or the streets they parallel.

Yes, that's how the bike paths are where I am to. Occasionally, if
they pass through a park, there are parking lots. Many of the paths
are along creeks and rivers which had many parks next to them long
before a path was put in. The American River Path is one such
example. It's often convenient to put paths next to waterways
because the path can take advantage of the existing underpasses
under roads.

I was astounded to learn that "almost ALL trail users in almost
all areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail."

Seriously, some people need to learn that life exists outside their
own neighborhood, and that not all areas of the country are exactly
the same, so they don't make statements that generalize based on
their own limited experiences. Certainly people from Silicon Valley
and the Bay Area, that have never experienced the eastern U.S.,
experience culture shock when they go back east, or to the deep
south.

Sort of OT, but I was riding to work this morning through the South
Waterfront in a road surface bike lane, and two suburbanite young
women -- one with a baby jogger -- came running straight at me. I
said something to the effect of "what the f*** are you thinking?"
And then there was an older guy doing the same thing. This is like a
bike lane super-highway area and yet you have these clowns who just
don't get it. I'm seeing a lot of this lately -- it has become a
thing to run in the bike lane, and it is the same young hip
demographic for the most part. I'm getting tired of yelling at them.
We need some of Muzi's shooters to clean out the bike lanes.


An 800 lumen front light takes care of that. It triggers their flight
instincts. In bike lanes I always have it on. Rarely on bike paths or
MUP but when I encounter too many distracted or inconsiderate joggers I
turn it on. It makes a substantial difference.


A light would have done nothing -- on a flat, straight stretch with two
riders headed straight at them in bright sunlight, it was just sneers.
You think your cougars are dangerous, these two had no fear.

Also, if you blind them, then it turns into a confrontation -- and
sometimes even if you don't blind them. I was running a 1 watt blinky on
a MUP at dusk, and some dope with his dog running all over the place was
complaining about my light. I about cartwheeled over his dog. Note the
sign: "dogs on leashes." It does not say "no 1 watt blinkies." I'm
absolutely sick of the dog owners ignoring the leash laws.

-- Jay Beattie.





Not to mention that blinding the idiot heading straight for you may not be
the best plan...

--
duane
  #249  
Old July 20th 18, 11:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-20 14:33, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 10:01:15 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-20 09:29, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 7:53:52 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/20/2018 5:04 AM, Duane wrote:
On 19/07/2018 8:31 PM, sms wrote:

snip

Perhaps they opened some new parking lots for those bike paths.
That has got to be it. As we recently learned "almost ALL trail
users in almost all areas use a car to haul their bike to the
trail." LOL. Usenet is always amusing.

I don't live out in the wilds with mountain lions and sabre
tooth tigers. I live in a city so the paths I'm talking about
are ALL close to parking. Like my driveway. Or my office
parking lot. Or the streets they parallel.

Yes, that's how the bike paths are where I am to. Occasionally, if
they pass through a park, there are parking lots. Many of the paths
are along creeks and rivers which had many parks next to them long
before a path was put in. The American River Path is one such
example. It's often convenient to put paths next to waterways
because the path can take advantage of the existing underpasses
under roads.

I was astounded to learn that "almost ALL trail users in almost
all areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail."

Seriously, some people need to learn that life exists outside their
own neighborhood, and that not all areas of the country are exactly
the same, so they don't make statements that generalize based on
their own limited experiences. Certainly people from Silicon Valley
and the Bay Area, that have never experienced the eastern U.S.,
experience culture shock when they go back east, or to the deep
south.

Sort of OT, but I was riding to work this morning through the South
Waterfront in a road surface bike lane, and two suburbanite young
women -- one with a baby jogger -- came running straight at me. I
said something to the effect of "what the f*** are you thinking?"
And then there was an older guy doing the same thing. This is like a
bike lane super-highway area and yet you have these clowns who just
don't get it. I'm seeing a lot of this lately -- it has become a
thing to run in the bike lane, and it is the same young hip
demographic for the most part. I'm getting tired of yelling at them.
We need some of Muzi's shooters to clean out the bike lanes.


An 800 lumen front light takes care of that. It triggers their flight
instincts. In bike lanes I always have it on. Rarely on bike paths or
MUP but when I encounter too many distracted or inconsiderate joggers I
turn it on. It makes a substantial difference.


A light would have done nothing -- on a flat, straight stretch with two
riders headed straight at them in bright sunlight, it was just sneers.
You think your cougars are dangerous, these two had no fear.

Also, if you blind them, then it turns into a confrontation -- and
sometimes even if you don't blind them. I was running a 1 watt blinky on
a MUP at dusk, and some dope with his dog running all over the place was
complaining about my light. I about cartwheeled over his dog. Note the
sign: "dogs on leashes." It does not say "no 1 watt blinkies." I'm
absolutely sick of the dog owners ignoring the leash laws.

-- Jay Beattie.





Not to mention that blinding the idiot heading straight for you may not be
the best plan...


Good quality lights do not blind but do make an approaching vehicle
prominently known. There is a reason why motorcycles in the US must use
daytime running lights.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #250  
Old July 21st 18, 02:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 7/20/2018 11:04 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/20/2018 7:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

Well, you can't expect people to ride bicycle in alleys. That's not safe.

https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/b...chicago-police



Where I grew up, the new suburb that was build had alleys behinds all
the houses http://oi63.tinypic.com/2l96p8l.jpg.

The alleys were the defacto bike paths for kids. They ran long
distances, though they would cross all the regular streets and you were
supposed to stop. They even had speed limit signs in the alleys "12 MPH."

The alleys were very useful since you could have driveways in the back
of your house, and garbage trucks could collect the trash from both
sides at once since the alleys were narrow.

Strangely, even though the alleys were used as bike paths, there were no
parking lots, LOL.


Let's try again, just for Mr. Scharf:

Here's a link to survey data from 20 trails in Pennsylvania and New Jersey:
https://www.railstotrails.org/resour...in al_Rev.pdf

"Purpose of Trail Use: Health 56% Recreation 38% Training 3% Other
2% Commuting 1%"

So quit confusing bike trails with alleys, Stephen. The data shows few
bike trails are used for transportation purposes.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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