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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
Portland's pushers of bike facilities rammed through some bike boxes a
few years ago. IIRC, they painted these things on the roads despite the fact that they are not approved in the MUTCD. (The MUTCD exists so every burg doesn't invent its own strange designs, confusing road users and killing people. There is a procedure through which burgs can apply for permission to experiment, but the procedure requires them to document everything and actually collect data.) Anyway, after screwing up by installing without permission to experiment, Portland got its congressman to pull strings to get the bike box "experiment" approved after the fact. Kind of like "Yeah, I ran that red light on Tuesday, but my cop friend told me on Wednesday that I had his permission, so you should dismiss my ticket." So Portland collected data, and the data is in. And just as predicted by people who understand simple geometry, physics, traffic movements and bicycles, it turns out the bike boxes did NOT help. In fact, at four intersections in particular, the bike boxes seem to have more than doubled the number of crashes. And there was at least one fatality, although I'd say that was caused by the bike lane to the right of right turning traffic, not the bike box itself. Here are the links: http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/...crease-crashes and http://www.portlandmercury.com/image...etter_merc.pdf or http://tinyurl.com/cocu8kb and http://tinyurl.com/d9rf4zv The letter's interesting. Since the green paint in the bike boxes is not magically protecting people when they're to the right of a right turning vehicle, Portland has a new plan: _Dashed_ green paint! Takeaway message #1: Do not position yourself to the right of a right turning vehicle, no matter what the "magic" bike facility tells you to do. Instead, guard against right hooks. Take the lane when necessary. Of course, in Oregon, bike lanes are pretty much mandatory. That leads to takeaway message #2: Be very careful what you - or your local "bike advocates" - ask for. - Frank Krygowski |
#2
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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
On Oct 17, 9:07*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
snip vitriolic rant Takeaway message #1: *Do not position yourself to the right of a right turning vehicle, no matter what the "magic" bike facility tells you to do. *Instead, guard against right hooks. *Take the lane when necessary. I'd say do whatever is necessary. Of course, in Oregon, bike lanes are pretty much mandatory. *That leads to takeaway message #2: *Be very careful what you - or your local "bike advocates" - ask for. Even if the bike lane wasn't there, the law requires riding as far right as practicable; and the mandatory sidepath law includes lots of exceptions, including explicitly, "Continuing straight at an intersection where the bicycle lane or path is to the right of a lane from which a motor vehicle must turn right." |
#3
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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
On Oct 17, 9:36*am, Dan O wrote:
On Oct 17, 9:07*am, Frank Krygowski wrote: snip vitriolic rant Takeaway message #1: *Do not position yourself to the right of a right turning vehicle, no matter what the "magic" bike facility tells you to do. *Instead, guard against right hooks. *Take the lane when necessary. I'd say do whatever is necessary. Of course, in Oregon, bike lanes are pretty much mandatory. *That leads to takeaway message #2: *Be very careful what you - or your local "bike advocates" - ask for. Even if the bike lane wasn't there, the law requires riding as far right as practicable; and the mandatory sidepath law includes lots of exceptions, including explicitly, "Continuing straight at an intersection where the bicycle lane or path is to the right of a lane from which a motor vehicle must turn right." ....oh - "... *must* turn right". Well, anyway there is another exception for leaving the bike lane to "avoid... other hazardous conditions". |
#4
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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
On Oct 17, 9:07*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Portland's pushers of bike facilities rammed... Anyway, after screwing up... Portland got its congressman to pull strings.... ... it turns out the bike boxes did NOT help. Statistically, I guess. *In fact, at four intersections in particular, the bike boxes seem to have more than doubled the number of crashes. *And there was at least one fatality, although I'd say that was caused by the bike lane to the right of right turning traffic, not the bike box itself. Here are the links:http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/...s/2012/10/16/c... http://seattlebikeblog.com/2012/10/1...se-collisions/ snip |
#5
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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
On Oct 17, 9:07*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
snip andhttp://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2012/10/16/135040395.... http://www.portlandmercury.com/image...etter_merc.pdf snip The letter's interesting. *Since the green paint in the bike boxes is not magically protecting people when they're to the right of a right turning vehicle, Portland has a new plan: *_Dashed_ green paint! It *is* interesting. "Bicycle use and volumes have increased significantly since the treatments were installed", and "Police investigation and reporting practices have changed since the treatments were installed, resulting in a higher rate of reporting for bicycle involved crashes". The 4 locations responsible for the increase are all downhill (?) Hmmm... might this be what experiments are for? The remaining 7 locations had a decrease in right hook crashes, even though use and volumes have increased significantly since the treatments were installed (?) |
#6
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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
In rec.bicycles.tech Dan O wrote:
:On Oct 17, 9:07Â*am, Frank Krygowski wrote: :snip : : andhttp://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2012/10/16/135040395... :http://www.portlandmercury.com/image...etter_merc.pdf :snip : : The letter's interesting. Â*Since the green paint in the bike boxes is : not magically protecting people when they're to the right of a right : turning vehicle, Portland has a new plan: Â*_Dashed_ green paint! : :It *is* interesting. "Bicycle use and volumes have increased :significantly since the treatments were installed", and "Police :investigation and reporting practices have changed since the :treatments were installed, resulting in a higher rate of reporting for :bicycle involved crashes". :The 4 locations responsible for the increase are all downhill (?) :Hmmm... might this be what experiments are for? :The remaining 7 locations had a decrease in right hook crashes, even :though use and volumes have increased significantly since the :treatments were installed (?) Don't expect rational discussion of safety from Frank. He knows what the answers are. Facts will just infuriate him. -- sig 110 |
#7
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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
On Oct 17, 11:51*am, David Scheidt wrote:
In rec.bicycles.tech Dan O wrote: :On Oct 17, 9:07*am, Frank Krygowski wrote: :snip : : andhttp://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2012/10/16/135040395... :http://www.portlandmercury.com/image...0/16/135040395... :snip : : The letter's interesting. *Since the green paint in the bike boxes is : not magically protecting people when they're to the right of a right : turning vehicle, Portland has a new plan: *_Dashed_ green paint! : :It *is* interesting. *"Bicycle use and volumes have increased :significantly since the treatments were installed", and "Police :investigation and reporting practices have changed since the :treatments were installed, resulting in a higher rate of reporting for :bicycle involved crashes". :The 4 locations responsible for the increase are all downhill (?) :Hmmm... might this be what experiments are for? :The remaining 7 locations had a decrease in right hook crashes, even :though use and volumes have increased significantly since the :treatments were installed (?) Don't expect rational discussion of safety from Frank. *He knows what the answers are. *Facts will just infuriate him. Reading the article, the problem is not with bike boxes but is with bike lanes -- riders remaining in the bike lane when approaching a green light. In that situation, the right turning car has to yield to the bicyclist and is, in effect, turning from the second lane over. The problem is that car don't know that, nor do they look for traffic approaching on the right. One day they might, but now they don't. So, we have the classic example of someone being legally "right" but getting smushed anyway. The q |
#8
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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
On 10/17/2012 03:32 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Oct 17, 11:51 am, David Scheidt wrote: In rec.bicycles.tech Dan O wrote: :On Oct 17, 9:07 am, Frank Krygowski wrote: :snip : : andhttp://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2012/10/16/135040395... :http://www.portlandmercury.com/image...0/16/135040395... :snip : : The letter's interesting. Since the green paint in the bike boxes is : not magically protecting people when they're to the right of a right : turning vehicle, Portland has a new plan: _Dashed_ green paint! : :It *is* interesting. "Bicycle use and volumes have increased :significantly since the treatments were installed", and "Police :investigation and reporting practices have changed since the :treatments were installed, resulting in a higher rate of reporting for :bicycle involved crashes". :The 4 locations responsible for the increase are all downhill (?) :Hmmm... might this be what experiments are for? :The remaining 7 locations had a decrease in right hook crashes, even :though use and volumes have increased significantly since the :treatments were installed (?) Don't expect rational discussion of safety from Frank. He knows what the answers are. Facts will just infuriate him. Reading the article, the problem is not with bike boxes but is with bike lanes -- riders remaining in the bike lane when approaching a green light. In that situation, the right turning car has to yield to the bicyclist and is, in effect, turning from the second lane over. The problem is that car don't know that, nor do they look for traffic approaching on the right. One day they might, but now they don't. So, we have the classic example of someone being legally "right" but getting smushed anyway. The q One could argue that having motorists encounter these "boxes" full of cyclists may make them aware of cyclists in the area and pay attention when turning right across a bike lane. The more cyclists around, generally the safer it is for riding. |
#9
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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
In rec.bicycles.tech Jay Beattie wrote:
:On Oct 17, 11:51Â*am, David Scheidt wrote: : In rec.bicycles.tech Dan O wrote: : :On Oct 17, 9:07Â*am, Frank Krygowski wrote: : : :snip : : : : : andhttp://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2012/10/16/135040395... : : :http://www.portlandmercury.com/image...0/16/135040395... : : :snip : : : : : The letter's interesting. Â*Since the green paint in the bike boxes is : : not magically protecting people when they're to the right of a right : : turning vehicle, Portland has a new plan: Â*_Dashed_ green paint! : : : : :It *is* interesting. Â*"Bicycle use and volumes have increased : :significantly since the treatments were installed", and "Police : :investigation and reporting practices have changed since the : :treatments were installed, resulting in a higher rate of reporting for : :bicycle involved crashes". : : :The 4 locations responsible for the increase are all downhill (?) : :Hmmm... might this be what experiments are for? : : :The remaining 7 locations had a decrease in right hook crashes, even : :though use and volumes have increased significantly since the : :treatments were installed (?) : : Don't expect rational discussion of safety from Frank. Â*He knows what : the answers are. Â*Facts will just infuriate him. :Reading the article, the problem is not with bike boxes but is with :bike lanes -- riders remaining in the bike lane when approaching a :green light. In that situation, the right turning car has to yield to :the bicyclist and is, in effect, turning from the second lane over. :The problem is that car don't know that, nor do they look for traffic :approaching on the right. One day they might, but now they don't. :So, we have the classic example of someone being legally "right" but :getting smushed anyway. The q Oh, it's clear that some of these boxes and their approach lanes are designed by ocelots on crack. But Frank is assuming that because a particular instance of something is bad, they all are, even when the data from portland shows that some of them seem to work. -- sig 68 |
#10
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Bike boxes - a failed experiment
On 10/17/2012 04:52 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
In rec.bicycles.tech Jay Beattie wrote: :On Oct 17, 11:51 am, David Scheidt wrote: : In rec.bicycles.tech Dan O wrote: : :On Oct 17, 9:07 am, Frank Krygowski wrote: : : :snip : : : : : andhttp://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2012/10/16/135040395... : : :http://www.portlandmercury.com/image...0/16/135040395... : : :snip : : : : : The letter's interesting. Since the green paint in the bike boxes is : : not magically protecting people when they're to the right of a right : : turning vehicle, Portland has a new plan: _Dashed_ green paint! : : : : :It *is* interesting. "Bicycle use and volumes have increased : :significantly since the treatments were installed", and "Police : :investigation and reporting practices have changed since the : :treatments were installed, resulting in a higher rate of reporting for : :bicycle involved crashes". : : :The 4 locations responsible for the increase are all downhill (?) : :Hmmm... might this be what experiments are for? : : :The remaining 7 locations had a decrease in right hook crashes, even : :though use and volumes have increased significantly since the : :treatments were installed (?) : : Don't expect rational discussion of safety from Frank. He knows what : the answers are. Facts will just infuriate him. :Reading the article, the problem is not with bike boxes but is with :bike lanes -- riders remaining in the bike lane when approaching a :green light. In that situation, the right turning car has to yield to :the bicyclist and is, in effect, turning from the second lane over. :The problem is that car don't know that, nor do they look for traffic :approaching on the right. One day they might, but now they don't. :So, we have the classic example of someone being legally "right" but :getting smushed anyway. The q Oh, it's clear that some of these boxes and their approach lanes are designed by ocelots on crack. But Frank is assuming that because a particular instance of something is bad, they all are, even when the data from portland shows that some of them seem to work. http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/07...cret-sect.html |
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