Training or Plain Riding?

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

It's because I know about this person and a "study" be this person is
probably an experience one anecdote second hand and two personal
experience with other factors involved. Plus influence from a great
guy who builds nice bikes with steel forks.

Interesting. My reaction to that post was that it sounded like someone
with a steel bias. Then I wondered if there was an IF connection. Am I
close?

Bret

On Dec 10, 8:32*pm, Carl Sundquist wrote:
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:32:21 -0600, Carl Sundquist
wrote:

Tom Kunich wrote:
"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message
news Who knows how many other riders would like to make tweaks to their
equipment, but know that they just have to ride what the team gives them?
Carl, let's remember that most riders aren't capable of making
intelligent decisions so it is probably best that they don't have a say
in equipment.

Both Shaun Wallace, who admittedly has an engineering degree, and Harvey
Nitz have built their own carbon frames (and that was roughly 15 years
ago). Nitz helped Serotta design the headset used on the '84 pursuit
bikes. These guys are not like bimbo singer/actor/actresses who claim to
design signature fragrances or clothes. Nitz was always tweaking his
bikes. Some riders have valuable, thoughtful suggestions and innovations
and sometimes (like you suggest) they simply have too much free time on
their hands.

Greg LeMond (with aero bars) and Bernard Hinault (with pedals), while
not capable of making their own stuff, were clearly "into" the
technology.

I can't recall if Hinault was involved with the designing of the pedal
or just one of the first to use/endorse them. I don't think Lemond had
much influence on the designing of aerobars.
Yes HInault helped design the Look pedal.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:44:20 -0800 (PST), hizark21
wrote:

Carbon fiber is still prone to delamination and sudden failure.

What does this mean?Are you saying the many, many bikes being ridden
now by racers are "prone" to sudden failure?

Nonsense.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:08:41 -0700, Bret Wade
wrote:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

It's because I know about this person and a "study" be this person is
probably an experience one anecdote second hand and two personal
experience with other factors involved. Plus influence from a great
guy who builds nice bikes with steel forks.

Interesting. My reaction to that post was that it sounded like someone
with a steel bias. Then I wondered if there was an IF connection. Am I
close?

Close, but I think it's another top steel bike. But the details
aren't important. There are great steel bikes, this peson does great
things with kid racers. And this person happens to believe nonsense
about carbon forks.

On Dec 10, 7:57*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

If you've been around racing or cyclilng, it's pretty obvious who is
right on this one.

But hey, if you want to relay nonsense and then sorta disavow it, go
ahead.



*Just mock them and move on.- Hide quoted text -

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http://www.velonews.com/article/82246
Cervelo recalls some carbon forks
Posted Aug. 22, 2008

http://thebikerack.com/page.cfm?PageID=62

Giant Bicycle is voluntarily recalling about 2,400 Giant bicycle
forks. These carbon-fiber forks were sold on 2001-model Giant TCR
Team, TCR 0, TCR 1, TCR 2 and OCR 1 bicycles and framesets (an
unassembled frame and fork). Warning: These forks can break during use
causing riders to lose control, fall and get seriously injured! If you
have one of these bicycles, stop riding it immediately!

http://www.raleighusa.com/recall/
Raleigh America is recalling 2007 Raleigh Cadent 1.0, Cadent 2.0 and
Cadent Carbon bicycle models with carbon forks. There have been three
reports of the carbon forks breaking resulting in injuries including a
dislocated shoulder, a concussion and a broken jaw.

Bill C

On Dec 11, 3:49*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:44:20 -0800 (PST), hizark21

wrote:
Carbon fiber is still prone to delamination and sudden failure.

What does this mean?Are you saying the many, many bikes being ridden
now by racers are "prone" to sudden failure?

Nonsense.

If you have a deep nick, gouge or crash on a carbon fiber frame then
there is the chance that the frame could eventually develop a stress
facture and break. With unidirectional stress weave cloth this problem
is much less, but still there is this chance.

Bill C wrote:
On Dec 10, 7:57 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
If you've been around racing or cyclilng, it's pretty obvious who is
right on this one.

But hey, if you want to relay nonsense and then sorta disavow it, go
ahead.



Just mock them and move on.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

http://www.velonews.com/article/82246
Cervelo recalls some carbon forks
Posted Aug. 22, 2008

http://thebikerack.com/page.cfm?PageID=62

Giant Bicycle is voluntarily recalling about 2,400 Giant bicycle
forks. These carbon-fiber forks were sold on 2001-model Giant TCR
Team, TCR 0, TCR 1, TCR 2 and OCR 1 bicycles and framesets (an
unassembled frame and fork). Warning: These forks can break during use
causing riders to lose control, fall and get seriously injured! If you
have one of these bicycles, stop riding it immediately!

http://www.raleighusa.com/recall/
Raleigh America is recalling 2007 Raleigh Cadent 1.0, Cadent 2.0 and
Cadent Carbon bicycle models with carbon forks. There have been three
reports of the carbon forks breaking resulting in injuries including a
dislocated shoulder, a concussion and a broken jaw.

Bill C

Every steel frame and fork produced by an automated process
is overheated. Every damn one of them should be recalled, eh?
The failure mode is built in.

I've broken my share of frames and forks, all of them were
factory produced steel.

In spite of my own personal experience I would never recommend
people avoid steel.

Bob Schwartz

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:34:14 -0800 (PST), Bill C
wrote:

http://www.velonews.com/article/82246
Cervelo recalls some carbon forks
Posted Aug. 22, 2008

http://thebikerack.com/page.cfm?PageID=3D62

Giant Bicycle is voluntarily recalling about 2,400 Giant bicycle
forks. These carbon-fiber forks were sold on 2001-model Giant TCR
Team, TCR 0, TCR 1, TCR 2 and OCR 1 bicycles and framesets (an
unassembled frame and fork). Warning: These forks can break during use
causing riders to lose control, fall and get seriously injured! If you
have one of these bicycles, stop riding it immediately!

http://www.raleighusa.com/recall/
Raleigh America is recalling 2007 Raleigh Cadent 1.0, Cadent 2.0 and
Cadent Carbon bicycle models with carbon forks. There have been three
reports of the carbon forks breaking resulting in injuries including a
dislocated shoulder, a concussion and a broken jaw.

Bill C

Considering that there are close to zero steel forks in use on racing
bikes nowadays, I don't see what that tells us, other than that
manufactures are perhaps more careful to recall stuff than back in the
day and that bikes can break. Which is true of all materaials.

And I can think, off the top of my head, of at least one instance of
aluminum fork recall when such forks were common.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:03:23 -0800 (PST), hizark21
wrote:

On Dec 11, 3:49*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:44:20 -0800 (PST), hizark21

wrote:
Carbon fiber is still prone to delamination and sudden failure.

What does this mean?Are you saying the many, many bikes being ridden
now by racers are "prone" to sudden failure?

Nonsense.

If you have a deep nick, gouge or crash on a carbon fiber frame then
there is the chance that the frame could eventually develop a stress
facture and break. With unidirectional stress weave cloth this problem
is much less, but still there is this chance.

There is a chance. OMG there is a chance.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:03:23 -0800 (PST), hizark21
wrote:

On Dec 11, 3:49*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:44:20 -0800 (PST), hizark21

wrote:
Carbon fiber is still prone to delamination and sudden failure.

What does this mean?Are you saying the many, many bikes being ridden
now by racers are "prone" to sudden failure?

Nonsense.

If you have a deep nick, gouge or crash on a carbon fiber frame then
there is the chance that the frame could eventually develop a stress
facture and break. With unidirectional stress weave cloth this problem
is much less, but still there is this chance.

Dude, would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge in the
metal?

And is eventually developing a stress fracture and breaking the same
as sudden failure?