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Bonking + Bicycles



 
 
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  #41  
Old May 27th 20, 04:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 3:36:52 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/26/2020 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 4:18:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:24:14 PM UTC+2, wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your

blood sugar goes up and down.


And what causes the symptoms we call bonking and go away when we eat sugary food. Or does this also not happen?


Lou


Its called getting tired. Your muscles get tired from use. And when you stop you get rest. And maybe, possibly, you drink something and get rehydrated. But your BLOOPD SUGAR, the amount of glucose in your blood stream, remains very stable. Your endocrine system, specifically your pancreas, keeps your blood sugar very stable. It has to do that to allow your body to work properly. Remember your heart and lungs are muscles and are always working. They need a constant source of energy to function correctly. And all the rest of the cells in your body need a continuous, constant amount of sugar/energy to operate correctly. Your body, and all animal bodies, is very good at this task. All animal bodies keep blood sugars constant. Or else the animal dies.


I'm not an expert on physiology but fatigue and bonk are not
the same thing.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


That is my experience also. To my knowledge bonking is a shortage of glucose, or low blood sugar level. You ran out of glycogeen stored in liver and muscle, the stuff that can transferred into glucose very quickly in contrast to fat and protein. Main symptoms a
- shaking,
- extensive sweating,
- now power at all,
- dizziness,
- headache,
After todays ride I burned 1970 kcal (power meter) in just under 3 hours. I was tired but no bonk at all. I drank two 650 ml water bottles with sugary water, no other food. I had once a bonk coming after just 10 km in a after work ride. No way I was tired at that time. That day I was very busy at work and skipped lunch IIRC.

Lou
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  #42  
Old May 27th 20, 04:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 4:13:00 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and
running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless
you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a
low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very
low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone
insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the
glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level..
No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat,
the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep
blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not
go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is
similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a
minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their
heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your blood
sugar goes up and down.




On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that
every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm
the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past
the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride
at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover
enough to ride further?

Cheers




My understanding is that there are about 2000 Calories of glycogen store in
muscle tissue. Additionally, we are capable of metabolizing fat (of which
most of us have essentially infinite stores)and converting it to glycogen,
but the rate of conversion may not keep up to vigorous exercise. So if your
exertion is short or low level, you should never bonk, but if it’s long and
hard, you may run low on glycogen.


I did a rather moderate ride yesterday of only 22 miles and did not ride particularly hard and burned 1100 Calories. The other day I did a 32 mile ride over 1800 feet of hard climbing and that is as close to bonking I've come recently. My return ride was thankfully mostly downhill and I could ride at a fat burning pace. slowwwwwww.
  #43  
Old May 27th 20, 04:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 11:58:21 PM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 27.05.2020 um 08:34 schrieb news18:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:52 -0700, wrote:

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:


Just ask a diabetic. Hint, the condition of diabetes isn't
just a switch. it appearts to be a gradual slide into the condition and
the type is determined by the speed of response, if any to blood
glucose levels. Type 1 & 2 are just another division to classify the
remaining level of response. Some, older, experienced endocrynologist
often talk about five or more types/classification based on observation
of patients

No. Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes are both called diabetes. But they are
not really related. Type 1 is a non functioning of the pancreas
producing the hormone insulin. Type 2 is the body not using the insulin
produced correctly. Both can end up with the same affect.


Are you saying that they are caused by two entirely different sets of
genes?


Type 1 is a genetic defect with typical onset in teenage years. Type 2
diabetes is more a lifestyle or nutrition-related "old-age" effect with
typical onset in the 40's, only recent wide-spread obesity has brought
type 2 diabetes with early onset.


More often type 2 onset is with overweight 50 year olds. My sister-in-law is a nurse who develops programs for diabetics and it is quite surprising how many of them will not stick to their program and die.
  #44  
Old May 27th 20, 04:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On 5/27/2020 2:14 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 27.05.2020 um 06:43 schrieb :
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 4:18:40 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:24:14 PM UTC+2,
wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking
and running out of sugar.Â* Ha Ha.Â* Just people making up
nonsense.Â* Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type
2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar.Â* The human body does
not allow blood sugars to fall very low.Â* The Islets of
Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin.Â* This
is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in
the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level.Â* No
matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you
eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood
sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level.Â* Your
blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic.Â* Blood
sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they
stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two.Â* Do you
believe people can manually control whether their heart beats?
If you do then you likely will also believe your blood sugar goes
up and down.

And what causes the symptoms we call bonking and go away when we
eat sugary food. Or does this also not happen?


Its called getting tired.Â* Your muscles get tired from use.Â* And when
you stop you get rest.Â* And maybe, possibly, you drink something and
get rehydrated.Â* But your BLOOPD SUGAR, the amount of glucose in your
blood stream, remains very stable.Â* Your endocrine system,
specifically your pancreas, keeps your blood sugar very stable.Â* It
has to do that to allow your body to work properly.Â* Remember your
heart and lungs are muscles and are always working.Â* They need a
constant source of energy to function correctly.Â* And all the rest of
the cells in your body need a continuous, constant amount of
sugar/energy to operate correctly.Â* Your body, and all animal bodies,
is very good at this task.Â* All animal bodies keep blood sugars
constant.Â* Or else the animal dies.


Animals do not exceed their sustainable efforts for days on end, humans
are able to.Â* On a race from Berlin to Vienna in the 1850's, the human
runner won because the horse died of exhaustion.


That's been an important human talent for millenia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting



--
- Frank Krygowski
  #45  
Old May 28th 20, 12:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 1,131
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Wed, 27 May 2020 08:29:40 -0700, cyclintom wrote:

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 11:58:21 PM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 27.05.2020 um 08:34 schrieb news18:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:52 -0700, wrote:

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:


Just ask a diabetic. Hint, the condition of diabetes isn't just a
switch. it appearts to be a gradual slide into the condition and
the type is determined by the speed of response, if any to blood
glucose levels. Type 1 & 2 are just another division to classify
the remaining level of response. Some, older, experienced
endocrynologist often talk about five or more types/classification
based on observation of patients

No. Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes are both called diabetes. But they
are not really related. Type 1 is a non functioning of the pancreas
producing the hormone insulin. Type 2 is the body not using the
insulin produced correctly. Both can end up with the same affect.

Are you saying that they are caused by two entirely different sets of
genes?


Type 1 is a genetic defect with typical onset in teenage years. Type 2
diabetes is more a lifestyle or nutrition-related "old-age" effect with
typical onset in the 40's, only recent wide-spread obesity has brought
type 2 diabetes with early onset.


More often type 2 onset is with overweight 50 year olds. My
sister-in-law is a nurse who develops programs for diabetics and it is
quite surprising how many of them will not stick to their program and
die.


Perhaps your sister isn't credible. Not a dietician is she?
Over here their credibility is nil. The fact that their annual conference
is heavily sponsored by the sugar industry goes down a treat.
They have also been guilty about jumping onto a few fadish diets.
Just like the quacks, these ancillary medical personnel have been guilty
of "killing people" with their "prescriptions".

Sadly, a lot of diet problems can stem from the fads in what children are
taught in school, where healthy diet components come and go. Learning at
home has always had its problems and doesn't do basic food well.
  #46  
Old May 29th 20, 05:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 4:57:43 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 27 May 2020 08:29:40 -0700, cyclintom wrote:

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 11:58:21 PM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 27.05.2020 um 08:34 schrieb news18:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:52 -0700, wrote:

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:

Just ask a diabetic. Hint, the condition of diabetes isn't just a
switch. it appearts to be a gradual slide into the condition and
the type is determined by the speed of response, if any to blood
glucose levels. Type 1 & 2 are just another division to classify
the remaining level of response. Some, older, experienced
endocrynologist often talk about five or more types/classification
based on observation of patients

No. Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes are both called diabetes. But they
are not really related. Type 1 is a non functioning of the pancreas
producing the hormone insulin. Type 2 is the body not using the
insulin produced correctly. Both can end up with the same affect.

Are you saying that they are caused by two entirely different sets of
genes?

Type 1 is a genetic defect with typical onset in teenage years. Type 2
diabetes is more a lifestyle or nutrition-related "old-age" effect with
typical onset in the 40's, only recent wide-spread obesity has brought
type 2 diabetes with early onset.


More often type 2 onset is with overweight 50 year olds. My
sister-in-law is a nurse who develops programs for diabetics and it is
quite surprising how many of them will not stick to their program and
die.


Perhaps your sister isn't credible. Not a dietician is she?
Over here their credibility is nil. The fact that their annual conference
is heavily sponsored by the sugar industry goes down a treat.
They have also been guilty about jumping onto a few fadish diets.
Just like the quacks, these ancillary medical personnel have been guilty
of "killing people" with their "prescriptions".

Sadly, a lot of diet problems can stem from the fads in what children are
taught in school, where healthy diet components come and go. Learning at
home has always had its problems and doesn't do basic food well.


She is a registered nurse and dietician that runs a federally funded program and not a sugar producer ****** like you aussies seem to think of anything free market.
  #47  
Old May 29th 20, 05:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 4:07:52 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover enough to ride further?

Cheers


Yesterday I went for a mere 35 miles. I didn't get out till noon and foolishly hadn't eaten anything since breakfast and didn't bring along a powerbar of any sort. The climb 15 miles into the ride the climbing starts and it is steep for about 3 miles. by the time I got to the top I had bonked to the point where I could only concentrate on the road in front of me and had to stop several times for my heart rate to drop down within an acceptable range. Because all of the "parks" are closed down, all of the water fountains are shut off? What the hell is this - flowing freshwater is safe for those unaware of it which appears to be the entire government of California.

Clearing the top of the climb on my Madone with aluminum wheels on it making for good braking, I was going down the other side at 40 mph. That probably wasn't safe but I finally made it home and was so buzzed that I didn't recover until the middle of the night last night.

It took me 3 hours to do that 35 miles. I have to wonder about it though - I have not been feeling good recently so perhaps the major part of this discomfort is some sort of bug. My wife has the same unwell feeling.
  #48  
Old May 30th 20, 12:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mike A Schwab
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Posts: 443
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 11:07:52 PM UTC, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover enough to ride further?

Cheers


One way to avoid this is to kick start your fat metabolism. Consume dietary Ketones to get your fat / ketone metabolism going. Then when your body runs out of carbs, it will start burning fat instead of boinking or falling into Diabetic Ketoacidosis (which can be fatal). Supplements are best (ketone salts) but taste awful. 2nd best is Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT) which have little taste, and is made from Coconut Oil. 3rd best is Coconut Oil, which is 2/3s MCTs. Here is an MD using MCT with elderly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGFUPSdATuw



Long term, once the fat metabolism is going, is to adopt the ketogenic diet, except for high demand events. I follow the wheat belly diet.
  #49  
Old May 30th 20, 01:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On 5/29/2020 7:47 PM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 11:07:52 PM UTC, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover enough to ride further?

Cheers


One way to avoid this is to kick start your fat metabolism. Consume dietary Ketones to get your fat / ketone metabolism going. Then when your body runs out of carbs, it will start burning fat instead of boinking or falling into Diabetic Ketoacidosis (which can be fatal). Supplements are best (ketone salts) but taste awful. 2nd best is Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT) which have little taste, and is made from Coconut Oil. 3rd best is Coconut Oil, which is 2/3s MCTs. Here is an MD using MCT with elderly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGFUPSdATuw


I don't know much about that. But I'll just mention that in the 1990s or
so, Lon Haldeman dominated ultra-endurance racing. Supposedly, he loved
hamburgers as riding food.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #50  
Old May 30th 20, 01:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 5:00:32 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/29/2020 7:47 PM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 11:07:52 PM UTC, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover enough to ride further?

Cheers


One way to avoid this is to kick start your fat metabolism. Consume dietary Ketones to get your fat / ketone metabolism going. Then when your body runs out of carbs, it will start burning fat instead of boinking or falling into Diabetic Ketoacidosis (which can be fatal). Supplements are best (ketone salts) but taste awful. 2nd best is Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT) which have little taste, and is made from Coconut Oil. 3rd best is Coconut Oil, which is 2/3s MCTs. Here is an MD using MCT with elderly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGFUPSdATuw


I don't know much about that. But I'll just mention that in the 1990s or
so, Lon Haldeman dominated ultra-endurance racing. Supposedly, he loved
hamburgers as riding food.


I think he actually ate smaller riders.

-- Jay Beattie.
 




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